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  1. #4066
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    They are better as friends now. But the teases of them reuniting happened way before Disassembled.
    Busiek has said that had he stayed on the Avengers he would have gotten them back together. Just never happen in this version the universe.

  2. #4067

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Busiek has said that had he stayed on the Avengers he would have gotten them back together. Just never happen in this version the universe.
    I'm sure he would have. It's just the point is that because a creator says something, doesn't mean it will actually happen. Especially when they are no longer in control of those characters. That era of comics seems to be repeating in the MCU.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  3. #4068
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    They are better as friends now. But the teases of them reuniting happened way before Disassembled.
    That's true. It seems most of the major Avenger-Avenger couples aren't a thing anymore. To be honest, I prefer the heroes either stay in permanent, stable, healthy relationships forever, or be single forever and ok with it. None of the "new partner soap-opera romance" business for me

  4. #4069
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Busiek has said that had he stayed on the Avengers he would have gotten them back together. Just never happen in this version the universe.
    That is why Busiek is one of the Best to Ever have Writtern Wanda and he should have been on for longer! He always seem to have longterm postive plans for Wanda before even being written.
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  5. #4070
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Busiek has said that had he stayed on the Avengers he would have gotten them back together. Just never happen in this version the universe.
    He was on the title for roughly 4 years and approx 55 issues. So if he wanted them together he should have done it at the start, rather that doing the whole love triangle mess. Then Geoff Johns had the likes of Jen and Carol going on about how strange it was that Wanda and Vision weren't together and again did nothing.
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  6. #4071
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    some crumbs from Avengers No Road Home 2019





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  7. #4072
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    That is why Busiek is one of the Best to Ever have Writtern Wanda and he should have been on for longer! He always seem to have longterm postive plans for Wanda before even being written.
    I'm a fan of his because as I got older I like that he spent time trying to do a reconstruction of the Avengers in an era where dark and gritty would soon take over and we got a wave of deconstructions. It felt like a real modernization in a era that would be filled with gritty = adult nonsense. I liked it at the time but I still look back on it fondly for that. The ending gave it a good jumping off point for the Avengers.

    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    He was on the title for roughly 4 years and approx 55 issues. So if he wanted them together he should have done it at the start, rather that doing the whole love triangle mess. Then Geoff Johns had the likes of Jen and Carol going on about how strange it was that Wanda and Vision weren't together and again did nothing.
    Busiek's run was about taking those old Avengers stories and making them bright and shiny. Ultron was born from Hank Pym, who is flawed but good. Both stories about the Vision's origins were true. Wanda powers was explained using all those previous versions combined into one. The Avengers had their charter back and was under UN employ, etc, etc. Even the Marcus story came back.

    The point with the Simon and Wanda romance seem to be establishing that they don't work as a couple, a refutation of Byrne's beliefs. So she can go back to Vision who she truly loved. It took a long time but this was a run that eventually had the team become a massive organization only at the end and the next arc was supposed to be about them rebuilding after Kang. It was a reconstruction of the Avengers. By the end, we're likely to have seen Wanda and Vision back together and some newer brighter era of the Avengers. Unfortunately he left and everything went awry.

  8. #4073
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    I'm a fan of his because as I got older I like that he spent time trying to do a reconstruction of the Avengers in an era where dark and gritty would soon take over and we got a wave of deconstructions. It felt like a real modernization in a era that would be filled with gritty = adult nonsense. I liked it at the time but I still look back on it fondly for that. The ending gave it a good jumping off point for the Avengers.



    Busiek's run was about taking those old Avengers stories and making them bright and shiny. Ultron was born from Hank Pym, who is flawed but good. Both stories about the Vision's origins were true. Wanda powers was explained using all those previous versions combined into one. The Avengers had their charter back and was under UN employ, etc, etc. Even the Marcus story came back.

    The point with the Simon and Wanda romance seem to be establishing that they don't work as a couple, a refutation of Byrne's beliefs. So she can go back to Vision who she truly loved. It took a long time but this was a run that eventually had the team become a massive organization only at the end and the next arc was supposed to be about them rebuilding after Kang. It was a reconstruction of the Avengers. By the end, we're likely to have seen Wanda and Vision back together and some newer brighter era of the Avengers. Unfortunately he left and everything went awry.
    Busiek did a lot of good work, but that love triangle was a bad idea. Simon and Wanda's relationship was bad even when and after Byrne left, due to the whole nature of it. Busiek had the chance to nip it in the bud, but instead had the Vision spout the wedding vow loophole. The fact that even after Busiek, writers liked to pair Wanda and Simon off, just to arrive at the same conclusion means that either someone didn't do their research (no surprise in marvel these days) or Busiek wasted his time. Also it should be pointed out that Bynre has been stated of wanting to undo (at least some of) the whole Vision Quest/Dark Scarlet Witch before he left/ was thrown off the book. No comic writer will ever stay on a book forever and there is no way of telling how long they will be on a book, so if they want to do something, they should do it as soon as possible.
    Last edited by leokearon; 04-11-2021 at 10:20 AM.
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  9. #4074
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    Supposedly, part of the motivation of breaking them up was he's a synthezoid and she's a human. So I wonder if they'd still be together had he been a fully living being. Either if he was the same race as Golden Age Vision, or simply been a revived Wonder Man rather than a separate character. I said it in another sub but he doesn't really look like a robot. Iron Man does. In that case, them having children wouldn't appear so odd

  10. #4075
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Busiek did a lot of good work, but that love triangle was a bad idea. Simon and Wanda's relationship was bad even when and after Byrne left, due to the whole nature of it. Busiek had the chance to nip it in the bud, but instead had the Vision spout the wedding vow loophole. The fact that even after Busiek, writers liked to pair Wanda and Simon off, just to arrive at the same conclusion means that either someone didn't do their research (no surprise in marvel these days) or Busiek wasted his time. Also it should be pointed out that Bynre has been stated of wanting to undo (at least some of) the whole Vision Quest/Dark Scarlet Witch before he left/ was thrown off the book. No comic writer will ever stay on a book forever and there is no way of telling how long they will be on a book, so if they want to do something, they should do it as soon as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Supposedly, part of the motivation of breaking them up was he's a synthezoid and she's a human. So I wonder if they'd still be together had he been a fully living being. Either if he was the same race as Golden Age Vision, or simply been a revived Wonder Man rather than a separate character. I said it in another sub but he doesn't really look like a robot. Iron Man does. In that case, them having children wouldn't appear so odd
    I'm not going to blame Busiek for trying. I thought it was very clear that Simon and her don't work when both outright say so. It's not his fault later writers decided to act like Wanda loving Vision is weird and mockable. But Byrne was never going to undo his story. That's not who he is as a person. Byrne only agreed to do the Avengers if he got to tell his Vision story. Wanda wouldn't be insane after it but she was going to be with Wonder Man and the Vision and her wouldn't be together. Byrne hated the Vision so much that he agreed to doing the book only if he got to destroy the character.

    He hated that people treated him as a person. He hated the idea that the Vision might have male parts. He hated that Wanda loved him like he was a man. He hated that he had kids. And so he did everything in his power to make it clear that the Vision was not a person but a toaster. Wanda only turned crazy because he thought that in order for her to love Vision, she had to be crazy. He had it cleat that the Vision lacks male parts. His children are demons. And Wanda is really in love with Simon as the Wasp would state, she just doesn't realize it. It was Byrne who made so Vision left the team stating the marriage is done because he's a different person.

    Everything that happened to both characters occurred simply because Byrne hated the Vision that much. They were never going to get back together under his pen. There is a old twitter post detailing this.

  11. #4076
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    I'm not going to blame Busiek for trying. I thought it was very clear that Simon and her don't work when both outright say so. It's not his fault later writers decided to act like Wanda loving Vision is weird and mockable. But Byrne was never going to undo his story. That's not who he is as a person. Byrne only agreed to do the Avengers if he got to tell his Vision story. Wanda wouldn't be insane after it but she was going to be with Wonder Man and the Vision and her wouldn't be together. Byrne hated the Vision so much that he agreed to doing the book only if he got to destroy the character.

    He hated that people treated him as a person. He hated the idea that the Vision might have male parts. He hated that Wanda loved him like he was a man. He hated that he had kids. And so he did everything in his power to make it clear that the Vision was not a person but a toaster. Wanda only turned crazy because he thought that in order for her to love Vision, she had to be crazy. He had it cleat that the Vision lacks male parts. His children are demons. And Wanda is really in love with Simon as the Wasp would state, she just doesn't realize it. It was Byrne who made so Vision left the team stating the marriage is done because he's a different person.

    Everything that happened to both characters occurred simply because Byrne hated the Vision that much. They were never going to get back together under his pen. There is a old twitter post detailing this.
    Byrne seems too antagonistic towards Vision. I can see a woman falling in love with a synthetic man being odd, but not worth ruining the characters over. Plus, Vision has more interesting powers than most Avengers

  12. #4077

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    It works in the context of comics, which always had an element of science fiction in it. She wasn't always completely human either.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  13. #4078
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    It works in the context of comics, which always had an element of science fiction in it. She wasn't always completely human either.
    That's true. It kinda weirded me out as a concept too, but sometimes I don't feel if Marvel is committing to him be a biological being or a technological one.

  14. #4079
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    Love how Wanda is drawn and her costume is rendered here. Seems to me Byrne was the start of her character destruction. Then Thomas, Abnett and Lanning and then Busiek all began her start back and then Bendis came along and did a story that was awful both to her as a minority and a woman and the current XWriters seem to love it. I saw a post here ( I think?!! lol can't find it now) saying the current X office or w/e must be all white men. Sadly I have to agree. There's someone on Twitter giving one X writer grief about her in an upcoming x series( I think ? Lol) someone was posting on a Reddit fan page. I couldn't find it on Twitter as I don't use and was confusing- but good for him/her. Wonder if she will ever be written again in a way that's positive and looks forward for her.
    Last edited by Cubbyboo; 04-11-2021 at 12:55 PM.

  15. #4080

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubbyboo View Post
    Love how Wanda is drawn and her costume is rendered here. Seems to me Byrne was the start of her character destruction. Then Thomas, Abnett and Lanning and then Busiek all began her start back and then Bendis came along and did a story that was awful both to her as a minority and a woman and the current XWriters seem to love it. I saw a post saying the current X office or w/e must be all white men. Sadly I have to agree. There's someone on twitter giving one X writer grief someone said on Reddit. I couldn't find it but good for him/her. Wonder if she will ever be written again in a way that's positive and looks forward for her.
    Writing in her solo was pretty positive. Same with her coming back to the UA after a long absence. Then in No Road Home and No Surrender. She has only guest appearances in Strange Academy, but those have been positive. Same with Avengers Empyre. It was the X-Men Empyre issue last year that made her seem child-like and a magic novice having to be scolded by Strange. Not the grown woman who had taken up magic training and knew that magic artifacts were dangerous. It was luckily one appearance after many she's had in the last few years.

    The problem really is the limited appearances right now. She needs to be in another ongoing. Not minis, not guest appearances. Something consistent.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

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