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  1. #5011
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Yeah I know about Slott's garbage, but it makes no sense. Franklin was first declared a mutant in Power Pack in the 80s. He wasn't scheming as practically a toddler. And if Marvel wants to suddenly undo stuff, they need to start thinking about reboots. Because their timeline of events make no sense.
    Yeah a reboot is definitely in order
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  2. #5012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    He was indicated as mutant by Reed and Xavier in that era.

    This is why a standard retcon is crazy as they get undone or changed.

    Personally Franklin is beyond 'mutant' as we know it. He is a mutant to the mutants, frankly (pun intended)
    Yeah it's ridiculous. Adults called him a mutant, just like they did with the Maximoff twins. They had no idea what a mutant was. Franklin's era was during the everyone is a mutant or omega mutant trend. People who read the comics know how much Slott's version of the story flies in contrast to the earlier tales.

    I don't mind them not making him a mutant. But Slott claiming he deceived everyone is just so against what actually happened.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  3. #5013
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I do believe that. It's just an odd situation. Every story related to this was about Wanda without her really being there. She's nothing more than a phantom.
    Yes itīs frustating they should just tell the story or leave it alone imo but the recent interiviews by Spurrier and Jordan White seem to indicate they have got a plan and given the talks with other editors of marvel my guess is that those plans will involve not just the X-franchise, lest hope they do it well this time and give it a nice closure for good.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-11-2021 at 12:16 PM.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
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  4. #5014
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    What would a mutant beyond Omega be? Zeta? Don't know.

    But Apocalypse, Exodus, Franklin (in some other form) could all qualify.

    X things are so hard to keep up with and at times pretty random.

    When I was more a reader, there were these X-ternals. Then later that was changed and they really weren't what they said they were (like Cannonball, was possibly one of them or something)

    Then more recently , they may have decided to use that idea again and re-explain or implant it.

    Maybe I don't understand it at all, and am better off not thinking about it.
    The External are mutants who are inmortal but not neccesarily powerful like an Omega mutant.

    An omega mutant was a concept invented by Morrison that wasnīt quite well explained, it mostly meant "A extremely powerful mutant" Hickman made some rules to apply to them because it was crazy the number of mutants who succedenly appeared.

    Marvel characters in general have so many years, having big power development that itīs hard to keep them at a level when itīs beleivable they would have problems with their adversaries unless those foes also grow more and more powerful so itīs a vicious circle and then they need to do stories in which those character loss their power level because it would be hard to believe they canīt deal with every kind of menace coming their way on their own. Thatīs why itīs important to have powerful characters but also add some kind of weakness imo.

    So I understand Slott in trying to keep Franklin to a controllable power level the problem was that Hickman had some plans for him that he obviously changed to adapt to Slottīs story.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-11-2021 at 12:19 PM.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

  5. #5015

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes itīs frustating they should just tell the story or leave it alone imo but the recent interiviews by Spurrier and Jordan White seem to indicate they have got a plan and given the talks with other editors of marvel my guess is that those plans will involve not just the X-franchise, lest hope they do it well this time and give it a nice closure for good.
    I saw that interview and they did not commit to an appearance by Wanda. Just dealing with how mutants have lived and dealt with the fall out from Decimation. And it seems more about their own self healing. Which is fine.

    But also makes the appearance of Wanda in Empyre a little disjointed. And it's still this thing that's happened in it's own little world. That didn't seem in character for her or Strange (which is typical for Decimation related depictions of them). And it just feels like, why? Why have her there occasionally as a mention or to do another stupid thing? It's not really giving Wanda fans any reassurance that this will be handled well, in a way that makes sense. And respects her history.

    And there's also the problem that Marvel in all seems allergic to depicting Wanda as a grown woman experienced in magic at times. But fully capable in others (Zub and Cates depictions).

    They really need to address why they have this tale of two Wandas pretty much. Complete with her in different costumes. Is there a clone still running around from Magneto Not a Hero? lol
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #5016
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I get the bad feeling they are writting the same Wanda, the problem is the bad characterization so I hope, if they are going to tackle her story again in any comic itīs done in a way that makes sense for her as a character. I liked how she was written by Zub, I didnīt read Cates version, I also liked her with Al Ewing and her writer from her series so I hope if they are going to do a big crossover with her at the center again after Darkhold ends, they do so with a writer that knows her story and has a good handle on her motivations.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

  7. #5017
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Yeah it's ridiculous. Adults called him a mutant, just like they did with the Maximoff twins. They had no idea what a mutant was. Franklin's era was during the everyone is a mutant or omega mutant trend. People who read the comics know how much Slott's version of the story flies in contrast to the earlier tales.

    I don't mind them not making him a mutant. But Slott claiming he deceived everyone is just so against what actually happened.
    I don't mind him not being a mutant either, but it was okay.

    I liked the idea or theory that Franklin never aged because he willed it and maybe inhibited aging in others too. This was a funny and cool idea years ago and was a way of explaining why no one got old.
    ~ Oberon ~
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  8. #5018
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    thanks for the External explanation.

    At some point all of this is just quibbling. Character arcs are what 'sells' serialized fiction, be it comic books or soap operas.

    So we really watch for character development or to see the reactions of various encounters.

    In terms of Wanda, there is a huge problem because unintentionally (or?) more fans are unable to understand this and will not let her move to a new role; Redemptionist, over Victim or Victimizer which she is thought of typically.

    It mirrors so many things wrong in the overall world today; what people believe and why.
    ~ Oberon ~
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  9. #5019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I get the bad feeling they are writting the same Wanda, the problem is the bad characterization so I hope, if they are going to tackle her story again in any comic itīs done in a way that makes sense for her as a character. I liked how she was written by Zub, I didnīt read Cates version, I also liked her with Al Ewing and her writer from her series so I hope if they are going to do a big crossover with her at the center again after Darkhold ends, they do so with a writer that knows her story and has a good handle on her motivations.
    I do too. I'm just not really putting the onus on the x-books to fix what the Avengers side started. Granted it was to create years of mutant storylines and change the Avengers. But really the problem lies with Marvel entirely. They should have handled it better from the start. Avengers side editors should have stepped in. And they've had 17 years now to fix this. It feels like a burden on current writers to fix from that long ago.

    If it happens and they do redeem her somehow, great. But I'm really expecting the stories to be focused on mutant tales and not her.

    My money is on this being only about Mags.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  10. #5020
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I do too. I'm just not really putting the onus on the x-books to fix what the Avengers side started. Granted it was to create years of mutant storylines and change the Avengers. But really the problem lies with Marvel entirely. They should have handled it better from the start. Avengers side editors should have stepped in. And they've had 17 years now to fix this. It feels like a burden on current writers to fix from that long ago.

    If it happens and they do redeem her somehow, great. But I'm really expecting the stories to be focused on mutant tales and not her.

    My money is on this being only about Mags.
    Oh well the X-men books started calling her the pretender so they have to fix it now. They should had left it alone

  11. #5021
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    i'm not ok with how the x-men writers been depicting Wanda and all this pretender stuff but if we have to blame someone it's the Avengers office... They tried in Children's Crusade but failed horrifly, it just wasn't enough and i don't think anyone cares about that story anyways since Doom will be attending the gala and he was involved in the decimation in sorf way even if they pretend it doesn't exists, that still cannon...

    The x-side will keep demonizing till someone in the Avengers office puts a stop of it and since she's not a character of the X franchise they don't have the obligation to "fix" her... The sad truth
    Last edited by Cruelrain; 05-11-2021 at 05:15 PM.
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  12. #5022
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I do too. I'm just not really putting the onus on the x-books to fix what the Avengers side started. Granted it was to create years of mutant storylines and change the Avengers. But really the problem lies with Marvel entirely. They should have handled it better from the start. Avengers side editors should have stepped in. And they've had 17 years now to fix this. It feels like a burden on current writers to fix from that long ago.

    If it happens and they do redeem her somehow, great. But I'm really expecting the stories to be focused on mutant tales and not her.
    Given her main franchise is the avengers, they may not be using her right now but I doubt they would just let her be part of the X-side all of a sudden and you are right itīs mainly their job to deal with HoM/Decimation, so I donīt think the X-editors alone could do the story, it needs to be a cooperation thatīs why I found interesting JDW talked about debating with other editors about Billy and Tommy mutant status. So this is just a guess but I feel they may have something planned or they may not.

    My money is on this being only about Mags.
    Agreed, I think this is going to be about Krakoa and the ressurrection protocols which are in a big way a secret and I guess Leah wanted to explore them after X-factor got cancelled, I just wish it didnīt involve Magnus having a trial again I am excited for the story but I would hate if itīs going to be used to turn him back into mainly a villain, still I liked the teaser suggesting thereīs something more going on, itīs a classic murder mystery.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-11-2021 at 06:55 PM.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
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  13. #5023
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    i'm not ok with how the x-men writers been depicting Wanda and all this pretender stuff but if we have to blame someone it's the Avengers office... They tried in Children's Crusade but failed horrifly, it just wasn't enough and i don't think anyone cares about that story anyways since Doom will be attending the gala and he was involved in the decimation in sorf way even if they pretend it doesn't exists, that still cannon...

    The x-side will keep demonizing till someone in the Avengers office puts a stop of it and since she's not a character of the X franchise they don't have the obligation to "fix" her... The sad truth
    Wanda helped Hope make new mutants being born and wished Phoenix away before she lose control. For me it was a good moment of redemption

    Avengers office can do something to help Wanda, but i gonna bet X-office gonna ignore it
    they demonize ecause for now they can get away with it, if people come together to denounce the sexism on it, they gonna stop doing it

  14. #5024
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    To me the real puzzle is why the Avengers office just stopped using Wanda after "No Road Home," except for that nothing appearance in Zub's Empyre mini. They wouldn't even let her and Vision have a speaking role at Billy's marriage.

    They'll never tell us, but maybe it's a combination of Marvel management wanting to emphasize Aaron's Avengers team as the one and only Avengers team (I have to believe Ewing would have used Wanda and Vision in "Empyre" if he'd been allowed). Wanda isn't the only MCU character who's been AWOL recently -- Bucky and Sam haven't appeared in anything except one mini that was only produced because there was literally no team-up material for them to reprint -- it's just the most obvious case because the X-books are constantly talking about her, which kind of emphasizes the fact that she never appears in anything any more.

  15. #5025
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I think you may be right marvel wants to emphasize Aaronīs Avengers by keeping other Avengers characters out of most things or making references to them in AUīs but not the main story but also had some plans to take advantage of the MCU using them with Bucky and Sam mini and the Darkhold and now I think they pushed it even further back because they now want to get it out in time for the MoM movie which resulted in Wanda (and Pietro) having to stay almost completely out of comics for a long time.

    I have some problems with this because by doing this they are doing the Avengers and mainly Wanda a big a disservice, the Avengers are a big name franchise that can perfectly have more than just one writer on the main team and solos for Thor, Captain America and Iron Man, they should and can have more than one team comic at a time and I think this is whatīs mostly hurting classic avengers characters because they donīt have anywhere else to be and it also hurts the franchise in general because right now it feels directionless when it had many years where it felt it had a long term plan and a logic behind each one of their stories.

    Ewing definitely would have used Wanda and Vision more if they were considered part of the main Avengers, my guess is that he would not mention her on SWORD or even get excited talking about her and Billy, Tommy and Teddy in his interviews if he just had plans to "demonize her" I think he honestly wants to do something with her and the maximoffs but the final say itīs from the Avengers side and right now they are not using her. So my hope is that if heīs being allowed to make mentions about her I guess he could have something in mind for her character and not as a plot device.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-11-2021 at 08:09 PM.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

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