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  1. #5416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would've been fine with Wanda being responsible for the Hex if she wasn't responsible for all the worst parts of it like the brainwashing and people being left comatose to suit her fantasy world, and that she basically ignored it until it was thrown in her face.

    It wasn't as bad as her House of M moment, but it felt too similar to be comfortable.
    But the story goes she was not aware of all of that and when it was revealed to her in episode 9 she was mortified and she let everyone go and broke from the grief that was washing over her, she even gave up her family to them when realizing this and let them go too. If she really bad or did not care she would not have done that, many reviews I have seen of the show since then come to similar views too, Wanda did the right thing even though she gave up all she wanted.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  2. #5417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would've been fine with Wanda being responsible for the Hex if she wasn't responsible for all the worst parts of it like the brainwashing and people being left comatose to suit her fantasy world, and that she basically ignored it until it was thrown in her face.

    It wasn't as bad as her House of M moment, but it felt too similar to be comfortable.
    Yes. And Schaeffer's interviews made it sound like she didn't think Wanda felt particularly guilty for what she'd done, and that is reflected in the show. It's not that she wants to hurt people, it's just that she doesn't bother to think about other people until she's absolutely forced to.

    Also the mystery format of the show meant we didn't really get to see her wrestle with the dilemma of whether to let the people go... and the dilemma doesn't even make any sense, because if she threw Monica out couldn't she just throw everyone else out and live with Vision and her kids? I guess it's best not to think about it too closely, the writers sure didn't.

  3. #5418
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I think it was the right decision for the Hex to be her (accidental) doing instead of having someone else manipulate her into doing it. The criticism is more that at the end she hadn't really learned to do better.

    If the tag scene had really showed her learning to control her power and avoid hurting people again, I don't think I would have the same criticism. But the tag shows that she could maybe be learning to control her powers, but she could also be about to get corrupted by the Darkhold, or screw up looking for her children... so we have to wait until 2022 at least to find out if she will do better or get worse.
    I think controlling most of her powers by the end of the show would take away from any journey storytelling we might get from it going forward, I am perfectly ok and even hyped to see her journey in discovering her powers and controlling them to have the viewer come along for the ride, I think that is the better choices to show us what it takes to control Demi god like powers.

    It is like a classic Anime shone character that grows stronger and discovers more about themselves as the journey goes on, it is what many viewers enjoy the most in Anime circles going on this journey and seeing the main character grow, fumble, learned and then get more powerful l, it endures them to us both thier strengths and weaknesses.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  4. #5419
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    But the story goes she was not aware of all of that and when it was revealed to her in episode 9 she was mortified and she let everyone go and broke from the grief that was washing over her, she even gave up her family to them when realizing this and let them go too. If she really bad or did not care she would not have done that, many reviews I have seen of the show since then come to similar views too, Wanda did the right thing even though she gave up all she wanted.
    I know but she still did a bad thing and held off on doing anything until it was thrown in her face. I'm not denying her grief, just that it didn't justify what she did and she hasn't really made up for it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Yes. And Schaeffer's interviews made it sound like she didn't think Wanda felt particularly guilty for what she'd done, and that is reflected in the show. It's not that she wants to hurt people, it's just that she doesn't bother to think about other people until she's absolutely forced to.

    Also the mystery format of the show meant we didn't really get to see her wrestle with the dilemma of whether to let the people go... and the dilemma doesn't even make any sense, because if she threw Monica out couldn't she just throw everyone else out and live with Vision and her kids? I guess it's best not to think about it too closely, the writers sure didn't.
    And I really think that's a bad way to convey your Superhero protagonist.

  5. #5420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I know but she still did a bad thing and held off on doing anything until it was thrown in her face. I'm not denying her grief, just that it didn't justify what she did and she hasn't really made up for it yet.
    This is where I stand too -- my problem is not what they made her do but that they ended the show without her getting a chance to make up for it or become a better person. The ending showed that she could become better or she could become worse.

    Maybe this is just my expecting too much from comic book, cliffhanger-style storytelling. The original Vision had literally no ending at all, he just got his memories back and flew away, and even the actor doesn't know when and where we'll see him next.

  6. #5421

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I would've been fine with Wanda being responsible for the Hex if she wasn't responsible for all the worst parts of it like the brainwashing and people being left comatose to suit her fantasy world, and that she basically ignored it until it was thrown in her face.

    It wasn't as bad as her House of M moment, but it felt too similar to be comfortable.
    Yeah this is a good point. I can only hope she learns control. They said she'll feel guilty for what happened. I hope they stick to their word on that.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  7. #5422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I know but she still did a bad thing and held off on doing anything until it was thrown in her face. I'm not denying her grief, just that it didn't justify what she did and she hasn't really made up for it yet.

    And I really think that's a bad way to convey your Superhero protagonist.
    I just think we are asking more of her then the storytelling saying, she was not herself she was awashed in her own mind and lost due to her breakdown and I just don’t expect any character that I have every experienced man or women going threw similar to be able to be 100% of themselves until they break the breakdown that is not making them themselves and when they do not so good things in those states that it is not them fully by choice or reasoning and I give that to every character I have ever experienced going through similar and most are viewed in the end of not being there full fault and are given most forgiving for many of the events during the ordeals.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  8. #5423
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    It's more about how writers interpreted mental illness. And saying that she was selfish. The depiction of depression was also off. And they very much did not portray her as learning control of her powers and link the powers being out of control to her mental illness. Those are very problematic things, still.
    I agree it is not perfect or ever will be, depictions if mental illness or breakdown in media is In My View always will be hard and never full get it cause each case and each person that suffers threw it goes threw universal different struggles. I think the storytelling tried to do this the best they could more then many I have seen in recent other stories but still not the best, but despite this Wanda was by what I have seen by reacting to her and the show was mostly positive and supportive of Wanda and many seeing her as a hero threw a joy of list and struggles that many especially in the pandemic era.

    She by the end still is depicted feeling guilty over the events and wants to learn to control these new powers like and character earring as a hero would do, I think we are on a journey with her and it seems she will grow better threw it.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  9. #5424

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    I agree it is not perfect or ever will be, depictions if mental illness or breakdown in media is In My View always will be hard and never full get it cause each case and each person that suffers threw it goes threw universal different struggles. I think the storytelling tried to do this the best they could more then many I have seen in recent other stories but still not the best, but despite this Wanda was by what I have seen by reacting to her and the show was mostly positive and supportive of Wanda and many seeing her as a hero threw a joy of list and struggles that many especially in the pandemic era.

    She by the end still is depicted feeling guilty over the events and wants to learn to control these new powers like and character earring as a hero would do, I think we are on a journey with her and it seems she will grow better threw it.
    Mental illness isn't difficult to get if they consult on depictions to get them right don't rely on stereotypes. Which are very dangerous. Because unfortunately these types of depictions have sway on how mental illness is seen in real life. Which also lends to more bad depictions in the arts.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  10. #5425
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Mental illness isn't difficult to get if they consult on depictions to get them right don't rely on stereotypes. Which are very dangerous. Because unfortunately these types of depictions have sway on how mental illness is seen in real life. Which also lends to more bad depictions in the arts.
    This is where I think to many comic book writers fail at writing it and then go use it for cheap and disrespectful reasons to either plot a chatter to a point or used the in OOC ways. That is why when anyone decides to go down this route in writing or showing mental illness on the screen they should be brushed on enough of their knowledge of it or at least have experts or doctors in the pool to guided them to depict the most respectful ways they should.

    I think WandaVision did what they could with this, it did not work for everyone but it has seem to still struck a cord with our society to see into our own lives and our own struggles we have to go threw not just physically but many have mental struggles to especially in these times.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  11. #5426

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    This is where I think to many comic book writers fail at writing it and then go use it for cheap and disrespectful reasons to either plot a chatter to a point or used the in OOC ways. That is why when anyone decides to go down this route in writing or showing mental illness on the screen they should be brushed on enough of their knowledge of it or at least have experts or doctors in the pool to guided them to depict the most respectful ways they should.

    I think WandaVision did what they could with this, it did not work for everyone but it has seem to still struck a cord with our society to see into our own lives and our own struggles we have to go threw not just physically but many have mental struggles to especially in these times.
    I don't agree that they did what they could with it. Her powers do not have to be associated with her emotions or mental illness. The depression does not have to be depicted as selfish.

    I don't think it's a, they did what they could at all. When writing mental illness, they need to think about it. Which illness are they portraying, is this depiction accurate to that illness, are they feeding into troubling tropes and stereotypes... It's easy to not make each character with mental illness related only to negatives.

    They just did the bare minimum of making her not a plot device.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  12. #5427
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I don't agree that they did what they could with it. Her powers do not have to be associated with her emotions or mental illness. The depression does not have to be depicted as selfish.

    I don't think it's a, they did what they could at all. When writing mental illness, they need to think about it. Which illness are they portraying, is this depiction accurate to that illness, are they feeding into troubling tropes and stereotypes... It's easy to not make each character with mental illness related only to negatives.

    They just did the bare minimum of making her not a plot device.
    I agree their was allot more they could have done, the show had atleast another 2-4 episodes it could have utlilized at the very least to go further into this. It is why I am never wild about hurrying story or having a time limit to how long or how many episode a show or anime, or issues a comic or manga could have to tell a story. By that point you are compressing a story and it will take out key elements that might have been interconnecing to tell a fuller and better story. Even thought the product seem to have done well in the end with WandaVision, their was still one could tell much more to tell and as it has been revealed because of Covid that some elements where left out cause of the Pandemic as has been dicussed before.

    I think all writers should strive to get Mental Illness and characters that go threw it much, much better. They have to to strive to bring light to the subject and not just to make a story cause they feel like writing it.

    Again I still feel like despite all the questions and angles they should have gone with Wanda in the show it still showing to be a Great Booster for her character, many are still connecting with her and her struggles, it made watcher cry and now they seem to be on that journey with her, she is maybe the most human MCU character now.

    But Indeed I am not going to say it was a Very Good telling of Mental Illeness, it got some moments rights I thought, did FAR more then many comics will even do on the subject. But far it be it for me or anyone else to say it a standard cause it is not, Allot more work has to be done on the subject and now after it writers of any story need to take it way steps furthe to treat the subject with respect and research it needs to connect to the public that struggles with these issues.

    Otherwise if they can't then they need to step back and wait till their are those that can and not repeat the past bad writting like in older comics and stories.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  13. #5428
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    I don't think the show was really about mental illness... Maybe "mental health" is a better term. Wanda had a breakdown out of grief, with the help of some collective trauma, but they never go into the idea that she's "crazy", "mad", has some sort of schizophrenia/is literally delusional about reality (like how in the comics people kept telling her the twins weren't real (and that was supposed to be the truth) and she basically just screamed "YES THEY ARE SHUT UP!!!").

    She sort of subconsciously creates the hex, doesn't know what's happening at first, then when she finds out she doesn't want to lose the happy live she's created and is in denial over how what she's doing is wrong and harmful to other people. But she's perfectly sane.

  14. #5429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I don't think the show was really about mental illness... Maybe "mental health" is a better term. Wanda had a breakdown out of grief, with the help of some collective trauma, but they never go into the idea that she's "crazy", "mad", has some sort of schizophrenia/is literally delusional about reality (like how in the comics people kept telling her the twins weren't real (and that was supposed to be the truth) and she basically just screamed "YES THEY ARE SHUT UP!!!").

    She sort of subconsciously creates the hex, doesn't know what's happening at first, then when she finds out she doesn't want to lose the happy live she's created and is in denial over how what she's doing is wrong and harmful to other people. But she's perfectly sane.
    I honestly don't know what the right term would be for Wanda was going threw, I honestly take it as what the writers gave us in the story as a Wave that washed over you and evertime you try to get up to fix yourself and make yourself better it pushes you down again pushing you down into this darkest of dark places where the world becomes more like a nightmare then anything else.

    I don't think Wanda in that case by how the story and what the story gave us was in her right mind or persection and moments when she seem to almost comeout of it the events in the hex brought her back into that state, honestly if Wanda was Sane and 100% clear minded the events of climbing she did in episode 8 and then in 9 would have never been nessary and she would have then never let anyone go or gotten rid of her family cause of it.

    The story showed she got broken down to her lowest, in a state of mental pain that was effect the world that suprised her in ways she did not know like when she was shock, we have to remember, she was litteral SHOCK by how the citizens of Westviews where not ok but were in pain and Wanda was shocked by that. If she was in her right mind, knew all that was going on she never would have the versital reaction or do what she did by the end of episode 9 and give up all she did and let the citizens go.

    By Again most of the reviews and videos I have seen on the subject of the show and these topics this is what most fans have responsed to as well, that she went threw something aweful, it mentally effected her awefully and when she finally in episode 8-9 crawled up out of it she took the hard truth and fixed it, that is how it came across to me and it seem to many I have seen reviews of the show for.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

  15. #5430

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I don't think the show was really about mental illness... Maybe "mental health" is a better term. Wanda had a breakdown out of grief, with the help of some collective trauma, but they never go into the idea that she's "crazy", "mad", has some sort of schizophrenia/is literally delusional about reality (like how in the comics people kept telling her the twins weren't real (and that was supposed to be the truth) and she basically just screamed "YES THEY ARE SHUT UP!!!").

    She sort of subconsciously creates the hex, doesn't know what's happening at first, then when she finds out she doesn't want to lose the happy live she's created and is in denial over how what she's doing is wrong and harmful to other people. But she's perfectly sane.
    It was depicting her as depressed for the whole show basically so yeah it was covering that aspect. And that her sadness was so great that it was impacting the hex.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

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