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  1. #7456
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Wanda started out a villain, but didn't get much time to be a villain. Far later was brainwashed. There are decades of canon between them where she was a hero. Painting her as exclusively a villain and discounting her heroic nature to get a rise out of her fans is not showing some truth.
    We are talking about the MCU her.
    She started off as a villain(Mind-f*cking avengers, letting hulk loose on NYC), then after a brief stint as a hero we see her mess up in CW and go back to being an outlaw.Then she does the Hex.She has been villain in MCU for far longer

  2. #7457

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Clearly not.I have been on this thread for a bit now and have only ever wanted her to be more featured.

    I never brought ethnicity in play.Being of any ethnicity does not excuse attempted mass muder or torture of 3000 innocent civilians.

    Cool, she wanted revenge.And Tony was trying to save the world.
    One is much more noble and selfless than the other.

    She let the Hulk loose on innocent civilians knowingly.She kept 3000 innocents in torture knowingly.
    What Nazis did have everything to do with discrimination and what they did was far worse. And beyond that it was real and millions of Jewish and Romani people were dead. And unlike comics, can never come back. Bad comparison.

    To her and what she was taught, he was not trying to save the world.

    And nothing resulted from the Hulk incident. The only real casualties were from the tower in Wakanda. When Wanda was trying to contain Crossbone's explosion.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  3. #7458

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    We are talking about the MCU her.
    She started off as a villain(Mind-f*cking avengers, letting hulk loose on NYC), then after a brief stint as a hero we see her mess up in CW and go back to being an outlaw.Then she does the Hex.She has been villain in MCU for far longer
    Who I was responding to was talking about all of Wanda. Everyone was outlaws when she was one. Even Cap.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  4. #7459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    You said I paint her as one.I'm saying she has done stuff that may make her on par if not worse than one.

    She mind-f*cked someone and let him take the device necessary to do something like this because she wanted to see him destroy himself.There is no exaggerating here.She said so herself.She allowed this even when she got a glimpse at what would happen.She didn't know about Ultron exactly she says, but she says she got a glimpse.

    I'm sorry.But you do seem like a Wanda Stan who will defend her every action no matter how bad.
    Or just tired of people bringing up dead topics but with exaggerated narrative?
    You want to play the role of the enlightened neutral party but the fact is you bring nothing new to the table and we already have answers to a lot of questions.
    You brought a lot of Twitter level into the thread by hey "they are long term Hydra terrorists."

  5. #7460

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Letting Hulk loose on NYC is mass murder.
    It did not result in mass murder. More exaggeration for effect.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #7461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    And not addressing it doesn't make it go away.
    It kind of does actually. The movie doesn't show what she did to the Hulk, whether she intended to set him loose, and no one has ever mentioned it again except for the one exchange where Banner acts mildly annoyed at Wanda. So we're basically left to decide what happened because the writing is so weak that it doesn't bother to tell us.

    The movie ends by showing that she becomes a hero, which is ridiculous if you assume that she deliberately set a man loose to kill civilians. When writing is that bad and confused it's hard to know what to take from it.

    Again, the Hex is an easier thing to discuss because the writing isn't bad and shows us clearly why she would do such a thing: she created it by accident, slowly became aware that she was in control, didn't want to let the people go and convinced herself, falsely, that she was making things better for them. That makes her selfish and wrong, and maybe even a villain depending on how you define it (the show is pretty clear that she is more of a villain than Agatha in the context of this story).

    So that's cool to argue about. The Hulk/Ultron thing is not as fun to argue about because it's really hard to judge a character based on writing that makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    We are talking about the MCU her.
    She started off as a villain(Mind-f*cking avengers, letting hulk loose on NYC), then after a brief stint as a hero we see her mess up in CW and go back to being an outlaw.Then she does the Hex.She has been villain in MCU for far longer
    I agree with you about the first and third points, but the Civil War thing has nothing to do with it; in that movie she's unambiguously a hero who got unfairly blamed by the public because she wasn't able to save everyone.

    I would like to see her get back to that, but I fear it won't be for a long time.
    Last edited by gurkle; 07-23-2021 at 09:53 AM.

  7. #7462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post

    Cool.I think attempting mass murder and enslaving 3000 innocents to the point of begging for death(there are men, women and CHILDREN here mind you) worse
    tony literally sold weapons to be used in wars. are you telling me they didn’t cause massive loss of life? selling weapons to terrorists that killed innocent people...

    Bringing this cause it seems like you're are acting like wanda it's the only one who did bad things when imo that's actually worst since more people probably lost their lifes.

  8. #7463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    We are talking about the MCU her.
    She started off as a villain(Mind-f*cking avengers, letting hulk loose on NYC), then after a brief stint as a hero we see her mess up in CW and go back to being an outlaw.Then she does the Hex.She has been villain in MCU for far longer
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, now you sound like the average Twitter crime lister, you are not entitled to some kind of jurisdiction buddy.

  9. #7464

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    Is pointing out a characters flaws, even over exaggerated ones, considered hate?
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  10. #7465
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    What Nazis did have everything to do with discrimination and what they did was far worse. And beyond that it was real and millions of Jewish and Romani people were dead. And unlike comics, can never come back. Bad comparison.

    To her and what she was taught, he was not trying to save the world.

    And nothing resulted from the Hulk incident. The only real casualties were from the tower in Wakanda. When Wanda was trying to contain Crossbone's explosion.
    Cool.I'll drop it.Maybe you also drop the act and address the stuff I write instead of brushing it.

    Still attempted a mass murder.

    She knew her was.She saw his nightmare being a dead Earth.And she got a glimpse of what it would do to him and she liked it and stopped QS and let him take the staff.
    It doesn't matter since her motivation was revenge.Saving the world is much better and how you think they are even comparable is beyond me.

    Because of Tony.Tony stopped the Hulk.And it's still attempted Mass Murder.And people still died, for someone who is as mature as you are you seem very cool with people dying if it's not in the thousands.

    And the Hex.You haven't addressed it once.

  11. #7466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covetous_One View Post
    Is pointing out a characters flaws, even over exaggerated ones, considered hate?
    I thought not.But clearly I was wrong

  12. #7467

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    Quote Originally Posted by Covetous_One View Post
    Is pointing out a characters flaws, even over exaggerated ones, considered hate?
    Not just flaws but making things seem like things they weren't. Coming in here and calling her a long time Hydra agent. And saying she created Ultron and that everything she did resulted in mass murder when it didn't is just extreme bs. That seems like it's meant to beat the bees nest.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  13. #7468
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    You can literally pick every bad thing she made but in CW it was clearly an incident, to say that she wasn't trained or knew her own powers very well, if it wasn't for her there would have more death since all the people on the floor would have died

    A bomb that would have killed Steve and dozens of innocent people had Wanda not contained the blast. Yeah she wasnt able to contain it forever and had no other option but to toss it away.

  14. #7469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Cool.I'll drop it.Maybe you also drop the act and address the stuff I write instead of brushing it.

    Still attempted a mass murder.

    She knew her was.She saw his nightmare being a dead Earth.And she got a glimpse of what it would do to him and she liked it and stopped QS and let him take the staff.
    It doesn't matter since her motivation was revenge.Saving the world is much better and how you think they are even comparable is beyond me.

    Because of Tony.Tony stopped the Hulk.And it's still attempted Mass Murder.And people still died, for someone who is as mature as you are you seem very cool with people dying if it's not in the thousands.

    And the Hex.You haven't addressed it once.
    She didn't attempt to murder anyone. She was fighting the Avengers that she was told were bad. She found out different from Hawkeye and turned to the side of good. You want to pretend things that didn't actually happen to paint her as Hitler, that's on you. But don't be offended when I consider that an exaggeration and hate.

    I addressed the hex, and already said she didn't mean to hurt anyone. I'm not interested at all in your itemized list to paint her as a villain. And then attack us for not considering her one. Like we are the problem here.

    She's a flawed hero, sure. Villain no. And you using made up bs to try and back it doesn't help.
    Last edited by GenericUsername; 07-23-2021 at 10:03 AM.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  15. #7470
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    In the end it's just a tiring topic.
    MCU usually refuses to answer questions that can put the favs into awkward conditions.

    I can do you one, is Tony Stark selfish for only bringing back the snapped population but not just reverting the timeline?
    There are loads of people who died from the indirect impact of the snap, and the problems left by the snap will make a lot of people live a harder life, but the lives of bunch of people and the happiness of the world is not to be traded for Tony's family. But he is framed as a family man and hero, the question about those potential losses are simply neglected since that will be too much weight to put on the golden child of MCU.(Actually the same for AoU, they narratively cannot afford to make Tony fuck up on his own, so there is Wanda, and also Banner to share the blame.)
    Wanda accidentally killed people in CW in an attempt to save people! So how about Tony rushing to Titan with no known backup or strategy what so ever, but they met Guardians somehow and didn't get annihilated by Thaons's army, they fought well! He narratively cannot look bad, even if his choice is actually likely to get them caught and Time Stone taken away. (And of course, give the control of loads of drones to Peter, but hey, no deadly consequences what so ever! Would be bad to taint his dead name.)

    Why fans of those protected by the narrative to never really fuck up too bad are so entiteld to criticize the characters who don't?
    Last edited by MaximoffTrash; 07-23-2021 at 10:05 AM.

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