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  1. #4156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I think I have a vague understanding of MCU magic. Loki specializes in shapeshifting and illusions (and as Raye reminded me on the Loki thread, that came from artifacts like the Casket and the scepter). Apparently he's copying Wanda and Agatha now by shooting laser beams from his hands (which I think takes away from her magical identity). Doctor Strange is an awesome reality warper due to his exposure to the Dark Dimension. Wanda is basically a baseball pitcher with red fireballs as her fastballs. I pretty much gave up on having Wanda have consistent powers in the comic books. It's just too confusing for me to track down what she did and when she did it. But I think the movies and shows should definitely streamline her abilities. And Strange's. And Loki's. And I think that requires SOME form of a magical system. No matter how vague and ill-defined it might be. I WOULD like to discuss it here, but maybe it wouldn't be appropriate because it is kind of esoteric and probably really boring to a lot of the posters here.
    Loki was studious in magic as well so him shooting power from his hands takes from no one. He's just another magic user.

    Wanda's powers are streamlined way more in the MCU. It's just the stones working in tandem with chaos magic.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  2. #4157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I've been lurking on this thread for quite a while now, and I must say I do find it odd that none of the posters here have expressed any concerns about how magic could be used in the Multiverse of Madness in ways that can REALLY damage that movie. I mean, I think the use, or should I say misuse, of magic absolutely RUINED Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald and Wonder Woman 1984. People on the Doctor Strange and Loki threads have even mocked the fact that the comic books have used magic as deus ex machinas far too often, but I hear no talk about that on the Wanda threads. I find that strange. I actually agree with Marvel Studios being EXTREMELY careful with how they adapt magical stories into the MCU. I feel it's important that there's rules, limitations and internal consistency in fantasy tales. I actually think MaximoffTrash is the only other poster here that seems to have an understanding about this kind of thing. Am I being totally off-base here?
    Wanda rules and limitations only mattered when writers cared. What should we do? Harp on about it? What would that change? Because it'll just be different again when the next writer tackles it. Sometimes she can defeat things with ease, sometimes she's a non-factor. Sometimes chaos magic has rules, sometimes not. Overall she's a nexus being that channels a magical god power through her that comes from the universe's creation and is very difficult to wield. But she manages to mostly keep control of it unless manipulated or possessed.

    It's not about the posters not having an understanding of it. We understand that Marvel has not done well with magic. It's not our problem to address nor fix.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  3. #4158
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Good to see you Back on the Thread Albert1981, Missed You!

    I honestly feel the MCU has so far done a good job slowing incresing the power levels with each movie and each new project over the years, making bigger and bigger levels of powers seem Mind-Blowing, but not just get out of Jail Free Cards that can do anything just for the plot levels yet. Even with the Infintity Stones, one of the most broken Powers in all Media, they seem to have their limits to a degree as well at times in the MCU and only went as far as to WOW the Imaginations of Viewers and Veteran Fans alike, but did not seem like their powers where all over the place. Their seems to be unspoken and unworded laws given to how power levels of powers seem to work, increasing but not broken yet and that is a delicate line to walk.

    So Far I am not too afraid of the MCU Breaking it with Magic Yet, their seems to be written Laws to how far powers can go and while Wanda is at a point of Major Levels of power, it is limited still by her will, imagination, training and values in how to use them. So Great Powers will seem to come when they are needed I feel but like comics have a way to balance the Universe so that even Street Level Heroes have an important place in the plot and skills the bigger guns don't, the MCU and Comics in general seem to do that well.
    Nah, I don't believe you. I'm that dickhead that this thread can't stand having around. If Ravin' Ray could post what he really thought of me, he'd have to ban HIMSELF.

    But thanks for the warm welcome. I totally agree with your assessment on the MCU's use of magic thus far. It's been pretty tempered and restrained. And I like that a LOT. People complain about nerfing, and I get that complaint, but I think it's a necessary evil. I can live with it. I have greater problems when characters all of a sudden become DUMBER for no reason, but deus ex machinas can just kill the suspense and tension in stories. And the inconsistent use of magic especially through the extensive application of retcons just destroys the "magic" of the movies and shows I watch (at least it does that for me). As I've stated MANY times on the Doctor Strange thread, I'm curious just how MUCH magic will be in the Multiverse of Madness. I want it to look cool, but I think it can be used sparingly to create even greater drama.

  4. #4159
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    One idea I think is to have potentially dangerous consequences of characters using extreme power, sorta like what happened in WandaVision. I think it also helps if characters can't use their powers indefinitely, but have to slow down to recharge at some points.
    Magic should have a price is what you're basically saying, I think? I agree with you if that's what you're getting at. It absolutely should. Like when Wanda expanded the Hex, did she get tired and depressed? Or was that because she was practically divorced and got gaslit by Fietro? I dunno what happened there.

  5. #4160
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Wanda rules and limitations only mattered when writers cared. What should we do? Harp on about it? What would that change? Because it'll just be different again when the next writer tackles it. Sometimes she can defeat things with ease, sometimes she's a non-factor. Sometimes chaos magic has rules, sometimes not. Overall she's a nexus being that channels a magical god power through her that comes from the universe's creation and is very difficult to wield. But she manages to mostly keep control of it unless manipulated or possessed.

    It's not about the posters not having an understanding of it. We understand that Marvel has not done well with magic. It's not our problem to address nor fix.
    I'm talking about the movies and shows. Wanda's powers HAVE been streamlined there to a certain extent. Thus far. But after she's done reading that book, I think things could change. And get out of control. I think Marvel has not handled magic well for twenty years. I mean, the way they've used it in their stories just feeds into the narratives that magic can solve almost any kinds of problems. Feige and company are kinda scared of magic being used in their properties. And frankly, so am I. Even recent movies have caused me to doubt how successful they can be. It's not our problem to address. But I think if we BITCH enough about it on here, Marvel editors and writers will say yeah, those lunatics on those CBR threads have a point!!!
    Last edited by Albert1981; 04-14-2021 at 07:50 AM.

  6. #4161
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Nah, I don't believe you. I'm that dickhead that this thread can't stand having around. If Ravin' Ray could post what he really thought of me, he'd have to ban HIMSELF.

    But thanks for the warm welcome. I totally agree with your assessment on the MCU's use of magic thus far. It's been pretty tempered and restrained. And I like that a LOT. People complain about nerfing, and I get that complaint, but I think it's a necessary evil. I can live with it. I have greater problems when characters all of a sudden become DUMBER for no reason, but deus ex machinas can just kill the suspense and tension in stories. And the inconsistent use of magic especially through the extensive application of retcons just destroys the "magic" of the movies and shows I watch (at least it does that for me). As I've stated MANY times on the Doctor Strange thread, I'm curious just how MUCH magic will be in the Multiverse of Madness. I want it to look cool, but I think it can be used sparingly to create even greater drama.
    Trust Me, those that know me for the Longest Know when I speak truthly, it is Good to See you again My Friend and no not a D-Head, You are Just Opinionated and Longing for knowledge to Underdstand, Just like Many of Use are Albert1981!

    Indeed I am Glad you Argee with My view on the MCU power scaling. I think the MCU did the nerfing Backwards that has made it work, they took our Favorites who we knew by the late 2000s when the MCU was getting its feet on the Ground Just how Strong These Characters Truly Where. But the MCU started them at their base forms and not brining in their bigger guns until they where build untop of One Another, pieces like an evolving RPG game seeing the characters get stronge, smarter, better skilled that made sense and not just rushed to get to a story plot needed or to the next movie. They did not worry about just one and done, but used movies like TV Episodes to build their stories to slow us into their world.

    That is why they can get with the Now Stranger Powers like they did with Wanda, Fans can accept world altering Chaos Magic and Multiverses cause thier minds are at that level, it was a slow burn into the MCU world the public came along with. It is taking well established characters, nerfing them for the right logical reasons and making them grow smart with each new chapter to their story.
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  7. #4162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I'm talking about the movies and shows. Wanda's powers HAVE been streamlined there to a certain extent. Thus far. But after she's done reading that book, I think things could change. And get out of control. I think Marvel has not handled magic well for twenty years. I mean, the way they've used it in their stories just feeds into the narratives that magic can solve almost any kinds of problems. I'm HAPPY that Feige and company are kinda scared of magic being used in their properties. And frankly, so am I. Even recent movies have caused me to doubt how successful they can be. It's not our problem to address. But I think if we BITCH enough about it on here, Marvel editors and writers will say yeah, those lunatics on those CBR threads have a point!!!
    I'm not really gonna worry about that until it happens. Because anything can happen with Wanda. I don't think so far it solved everything. Strange's movie went into magic having a cost. And it did in Wanda's show.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  8. #4163
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Trust Me, those that know me for the Longest Know when I speak truthly, it is Good to See you again My Friend and no not a D-Head, You are Just Opinionated and Longing for knowledge to Underdstand, Just like Many of Use are Albert1981!

    Indeed I am Glad you Argee with My view on the MCU power scaling. I think the MCU did the nerfing Backwards that has made it work, they took our Favorites who we knew by the late 2000s when the MCU was getting its feet on the Ground Just how Strong These Characters Truly Where. But the MCU started them at their base forms and not brining in their bigger guns until they where build untop of One Another, pieces like an evolving RPG game seeing the characters get stronge, smarter, better skilled that made sense and not just rushed to get to a story plot needed or to the next movie. They did not worry about just one and done, but used movies like TV Episodes to build their stories to slow us into their world.

    That is why they can get with the Now Stranger Powers like they did with Wanda, Fans can accept world altering Chaos Magic and Multiverses cause thier minds are at that level, it was a slow burn into the MCU world the public came along with. It is taking well established characters, nerfing them for the right logical reasons and making them grow smart with each new chapter to their story.
    I have opinions. Yep. But I try to make them humorous as much as possible. So I don't get much backlash. So far that strategy has worked beautifully.

    Well, the MCU based its universe on science. There's no question about that. Look at the original Avengers. How many magic users were on that team? How many "supporting characters" were mystical in nature up until the Week of Ultron? Not many. It didn't matter to me at first because when I was a boy, I watched a lot of Quantum Leap and MacGyver. I liked the old James Bond movies too. Because of the gadgets. Because the protagonists used their charm and intelligence to beat the "bad guys". My early exposure to fantasy was through the Wizard of Oz and Peter Pan, and there wasn't a lot of superheroing going on there. I'm glad they didn't bring on the big guns TOO early. And they didn't make them too strong. In fact, the villains in the MCU always felt weak to me with extremely poor motivations. A lot of them just wanted to be evil. I find that boring. But the gradual development of magical powers has been nice. I think it's been slow and that's great. But Wanda creating life out of nothing is a HUGE step up from previous appearances.

  9. #4164
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I'm not really gonna worry about that until it happens. Because anything can happen with Wanda. I don't think so far it solved everything. Strange's movie went into magic having a cost. And it did in Wanda's show.
    I'm VERY pleased to hear that you think magic should have a cost. That means my weeks of advocating for just this policy on these threads has WORKED!!! On that happy note, I'm going to bed. Good night!

  10. #4165
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I'm VERY pleased to hear that you think magic should have a cost.
    That's pretty much how magic works in most if not all RPGs and their associated novels. Makes both PCs and NPCs more interesting to role-play and read about.
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  11. #4166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I'm VERY pleased to hear that you think magic should have a cost. That means my weeks of advocating for just this policy on these threads has WORKED!!! On that happy note, I'm going to bed. Good night!
    I feel it should have limits and preferred Wanda's powers have limits. And they do technically in comics. They use to be limited to line of sight and what was near her person. She couldn't use her powers through a television for instance. Her powers now are limited to normal range for her unless she taps into a power strong enough. Magical artifacts in the universe have a cost for their use. And should only be used by those with the knowledge and discipline or in times were it is important. It's just at times Marvel does not remember these things. Nor do they remember that Wanda is adept at magic.

    But limits were always something I preferred. We have had discussions of that here over the years. That they should put limits on Wanda because when her powers are overboard she gets used as a plot device and is no longer seen as a character. Some have suggested her tiara block out possession or control of her. Like how Mags' helm kept him from psionic attacks. It's not a new subject. We just know it goes nowhere.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  12. #4167
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    That is one of the things I am enjoying most I am well enjoy most about doing this project for all of you! He is showing fans even long time fans of Wanda all this unknown history and special guest star appearances in books We may never before have ever known before, I love that!

    I am hoping you keep enjoying it leokearon, Thank you for your response and participation!

    I am hoping everyone else in the fandom is enjoying these as well, you don’t have to respond to them, but I am hoping you’re seeing them and you all enjoying them!

    These are indeed a joy to do it makes me feel good to share, read, and help teach and learn even to myself especially to all of you Wanda Faithful this in-depth history of our Wanda and learning the Tomes of her lore like Those of Mytical books Magical Users look into to better their knowledge and of love for what love!

    Please let me know if I’m doing this is to all of your enjoyment or anything else I could be doing to make them better, thank you everyone!
    I'm loving these trips down Wanda Memory lane.
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  13. #4168
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Yeah I don't get it. Has Marvel forgotten she had good, heroic stories? Or do they not want new fans to know? It's pretty dumb.
    Yeah, it would be like having a Spider-man movie and promoting Chapter One and the Final Chapter
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  14. #4169
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Wanda's powers have been "whatever the plot requires" since 1964, so I think most people in a Scarlet Witch thread are kind of resigned to a lack of rules, limitations and internal consistency.
    Exactly Wanda twiddles her fingers and stuff happens, that's the way her powers basically work
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  15. #4170
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    I feel like MU is just way oversized for a more well-defined magic system and respective rules.
    Mystic Arcana and Marvel Tarot kinda wanted to be that "Official Handbook for mystical Marvel" which tried really hard to tie most mystical stuff together but clearly no writer ever gave a shit about that.(Like there was that suggestion that Chthon or Set had a hand in causing AD/HOM in Marvel Tarot.)
    Also I heard Marvel is releasing "Book of Vishanti" which is also some sort of encyclopedia for Marvel's magic.
    There is still hope for MCU though.
    Again I think movies/shows and various "one-sided visual receiving" media can afford to have less-defined rules than say videos games/table RPGs.

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