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  1. #9406
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I wouldn't want that to be the first and only portrayal. Maybe if they dug in bigger into the history of slavery and discrimination that lead to the poverty to begin with. But not the begging itself. Because that's already an existing stereotype, despite a majority of Romani not living that way.

    The show is not that good. It's not that bad. It created some necessary talk about depression and mental illness in general. Which is important. It didn't leave the character in the best of places though. It did propel her to her highest popularity. So there are some give and takes.

    I don't think people are just criticizing WandaVision for the lack of representation, but the entire MCU. I'm sure if a lot of them read comics they'd be talking about the lack of real rep in comics as well.
    Well, from my understanding the Romani I saw in Paris are NOT French. They mostly arrived from Eastern and Southern Europe. Unfairly or not, the Romani community have a reputation for pickpocketing in France. I think France has a really bad petty crime problem so a lot of French people blame the Romani for that. It's a shitty situation, but I just think that France is a lot poorer than the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK.

    I'm not really a fan of Phase 4 right now. I think a strong majority of viewers think that WandaVision, Falcon & the Winter Soldier, Loki and Black Widow are great. I think the shows and movies have been merely OKAY. I was pretty disappointed in Black Widow and Loki in particular. I do think Olsen, Hahn and Bettany deserve praise for doing some acting in front of a live-studio audience though. The humor has just been lacking in my opinion. I still like WandaVision best of what I have seen this year so far. I wanted to love or at least really like Phase 4 and that just hasn't happened.

    From what I've been hearing comic books have been trying to become more diverse, but they've got a problem. There has been such a STRONG backlash against "wokeness" in the general public in recent years that they don't wanna alienate a large segment of their readers. I think the movies and shows are the same way. I do think Disney wants to move the ball forward but not in a way that makes viewers think they're being lectured to.

  2. #9407
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Well, from my understanding the Romani I saw in Paris are NOT French. They mostly arrived from Eastern and Southern Europe. Unfairly or not, the Romani community have a reputation for pickpocketing in France. I think France has a really bad petty crime problem so a lot of French people blame the Romani for that. It's a shitty situation, but I just think that France is a lot poorer than the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK.

    I'm not really a fan of Phase 4 right now. I think a strong majority of viewers think that WandaVision, Falcon & the Winter Soldier, Loki and Black Widow are great. I think the shows and movies have been merely OKAY. I was pretty disappointed in Black Widow and Loki in particular. I do think Olsen, Hahn and Bettany deserve praise for doing some acting in front of a live-studio audience though. The humor has just been lacking in my opinion. I still like WandaVision best of what I have seen this year so far. I wanted to love or at least really like Phase 4 and that just hasn't happened.

    From what I've been hearing comic books have been trying to become more diverse, but they've got a problem. There has been such a STRONG backlash against "wokeness" in the general public in recent years that they don't wanna alienate a large segment of their readers. I think the movies and shows are the same way. I do think Disney wants to move the ball forward but not in a way that makes viewers think they're being lectured to.
    There are Romani that live everywhere. We don't have a home country. So it could be something true or untrue. Locals in a lot of places have their stories about Romani that are widely untrue. Unfairly a lot of Romani are still destitute due to discrimination being very vast. So they are blamed for situations they are put in, in Europe. Petty crime exists in large amounts in places where there aren't Romani either.

    Comics have not become more diverse with Romani depictions. There are barely any at all good depictions. It seems to escape any progression in other areas. The comics, cartoons, movies, etc. have never had a great push for Romani rep so it's not dependent on those that speak out against "wokeness." It's just a vast amount of ignorance that exists and has existed for roughly 800 years.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  3. #9408
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    New prototype figure


  4. #9409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Well, from my understanding the Romani I saw in Paris are NOT French. They mostly arrived from Eastern and Southern Europe. Unfairly or not, the Romani community have a reputation for pickpocketing in France. I think France has a really bad petty crime problem so a lot of French people blame the Romani for that. It's a shitty situation, but I just think that France is a lot poorer than the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK.

    I'm not really a fan of Phase 4 right now. I think a strong majority of viewers think that WandaVision, Falcon & the Winter Soldier, Loki and Black Widow are great. I think the shows and movies have been merely OKAY. I was pretty disappointed in Black Widow and Loki in particular. I do think Olsen, Hahn and Bettany deserve praise for doing some acting in front of a live-studio audience though. The humor has just been lacking in my opinion. I still like WandaVision best of what I have seen this year so far. I wanted to love or at least really like Phase 4 and that just hasn't happened.

    From what I've been hearing comic books have been trying to become more diverse, but they've got a problem. There has been such a STRONG backlash against "wokeness" in the general public in recent years that they don't wanna alienate a large segment of their readers. I think the movies and shows are the same way. I do think Disney wants to move the ball forward but not in a way that makes viewers think they're being lectured to.
    You'd be hard pressed to find ANY marginalized community anywhere that doesn't have higher rates of crime and poverty than mainstream citizens, but this perception that Romani are all just thieves who are unable to make an honest living definitely draws more on centuries of stereotyping than it does on any nuanced understanding of the crime statistics. More likely is that France just has a problem with crime because it has very high unemployment by the standards of a developed country, as well as a lot of tourists coming in that make for easy targets, not because there are too many darkies running around making life difficult for the upstanding white folk.

  5. #9410
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    New prototype figure

    This looks very nice! It's a good problem to have that they are releasing more Wanda stuff than my wallet allows me to buy, lol.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #9411
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Also Andy Park was called out on Twitter https://twitter.com/leiaorganq/statu...46536740376578

    There are prominent Romani actresses. They are mostly in theater. Which is where Hollywood found Sir Ian McKellan. The lack of Romani actresses is something on purpose. Not because there are a lack of Romani actresses. It's systemic.

    It is a good point that no Romani actress would want to portray and perpetuate terrible stereotypes, but it's also on the company to clean that up. The hippie movement did indeed appropriate many things from Indian, Romani and Native American cultures and many in these groups have called them out for it.
    Omg not my moot who used to be a stan but pretty much became an anti being linked here. ��

  7. #9412
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    The ones harassing the other artist were probably antis as well. So It's probably all the same corner of Twitter.

    Romani Twitter occasionally gets wind of something and comments on it as well. Or at least retweets it.

    I don't personally harass creators. I know this is a deeper seeded issue than the artists themselves. I do hope for more depictions like in the new Captain America novel than the white washed, stereotyped ones though.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  8. #9413
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    The ones harassing the other artist were probably antis as well. So It's probably all the same corner of Twitter.
    I actually said something like "Omg not her being drawn like Lizzie lol" (in portuguese) just because I found it amusing, but it probably came off as hate too... Well I sent a comment on Instagram being positive and trying to clarify it at least lol.

  9. #9414
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    There are Romani that live everywhere. We don't have a home country. So it could be something true or untrue. Locals in a lot of places have their stories about Romani that are widely untrue. Unfairly a lot of Romani are still destitute due to discrimination being very vast. So they are blamed for situations they are put in, in Europe. Petty crime exists in large amounts in places where there aren't Romani either.

    Comics have not become more diverse with Romani depictions. There are barely any at all good depictions. It seems to escape any progression in other areas. The comics, cartoons, movies, etc. have never had a great push for Romani rep so it's not dependent on those that speak out against "wokeness." It's just a vast amount of ignorance that exists and has existed for roughly 800 years.
    I was talking about minorities in comics in general. Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I was just saying that Disney is probably worried about not antagonizing audiences with "woke political agendas", so they are GRADUALLY making the MCU more diverse over time. I don't think any medium has represented Romani communities well. I mean pop songs like "Gypsy Woman" and "Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves" were EXTREMELY popular back in the day. I do think the perception of the Romani in Europe is pretty bad. Of course not all Roma are involved in petty crime. I encountered quite a few of them in Paris. I don't think American, Canadian, Australian and British cities have huge Roma populations in them like Paris does, so I didn't expect that. I felt sorry for them to be quite honest. Nobody likes to beg for money. I guess their situation is somewhat similar to Native Americans/Canadians and Australian Aborigines (minus the massive substance abuse and suicide problems).

  10. #9415
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    You'd be hard pressed to find ANY marginalized community anywhere that doesn't have higher rates of crime and poverty than mainstream citizens, but this perception that Romani are all just thieves who are unable to make an honest living definitely draws more on centuries of stereotyping than it does on any nuanced understanding of the crime statistics. More likely is that France just has a problem with crime because it has very high unemployment by the standards of a developed country, as well as a lot of tourists coming in that make for easy targets, not because there are too many darkies running around making life difficult for the upstanding white folk.
    Yeah, I was surprised by the depth of poverty in such wealthy city like Paris. I was absolutely enthralled when I watched Midnight in Paris, and I mistakenly thought Paris could never be as poor as it was. My mother had her bag stolen from under her table in a restaurant when we visited Paris and it had photos of me and various French generals from Les Invalides! Very upsetting. I don't blame Roma for engaging in the begging business because France has a LOT of tourists. If I were a beggar, I would set up shop there too. But I agree with you, they are extremely marginalized in France even though you'd figure they wouldn't be because there's so many of them there.

  11. #9416
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    I think it would be nice if Roma people could get some positive representation in movies.

  12. #9417
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I was talking about minorities in comics in general. Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I was just saying that Disney is probably worried about not antagonizing audiences with "woke political agendas", so they are GRADUALLY making the MCU more diverse over time. I don't think any medium has represented Romani communities well. I mean pop songs like "Gypsy Woman" and "Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves" were EXTREMELY popular back in the day. I do think the perception of the Romani in Europe is pretty bad. Of course not all Roma are involved in petty crime. I encountered quite a few of them in Paris. I don't think American, Canadian, Australian and British cities have huge Roma populations in them like Paris does, so I didn't expect that. I felt sorry for them to be quite honest. Nobody likes to beg for money. I guess their situation is somewhat similar to Native Americans/Canadians and Australian Aborigines (minus the massive substance abuse and suicide problems).
    I don't think that is a factor at all. I just think they never had a grasp on who Romani are, and really are no closer to it. Also, the US has a population of over a million Romani. We aren't that few. There's a large population in Britain as well. A lot of Kalderash and Romanichal families came to the US during the mid to late 1800s from there. And some were sold to the US into slavery. Numbers don't mean anything to how groups are marginalized. It's the whole point of marginalization. Women have had this struggle for decades. The more people there are of a certain group, the more focused and harsh the discrimination becomes.
    Last edited by GenericUsername; 09-24-2021 at 04:20 PM.
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  13. #9418
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I don't think that is a factor at all. I just think they never had a grasp on who Romani are, and really are no closer to it. Also, the US has a population of over a million Romani. We aren't that few. There's a large population in Britain as well. A lot of Kalderash and Romanichal families came to the US during the mid to late 1800s from there. And some were sold to the US into slavery. Numbers don't mean anything to how groups are marginalized. It's the whole point of marginalization. Women have had this struggle for decades. The more people there are of a certain group, the more focused and harsh the discrimination becomes.
    Yeah, in my experience (and it's purely my own) there's a FAR less negative connotation with the word ("gypsies") in places OUTSIDE of Europe. I mean, I haven't heard of any segregation of Romani peoples in America. In Europe, I don't think that's the case. I'm not even sure if they believe in assimilation. I DO know that British comedienne Tracey Ullman recorded one of my favorite pop songs of the 80s: "They Don't Know" that managed to do quite well in the US as well too. I think she is of Romani descent and is rich as hell:

    Last edited by Albert1981; 09-24-2021 at 04:40 PM.

  14. #9419
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Yeah, in my experience (and it's purely my own) that there's a FAR less negative connotation with the word ("gypsies") in places OUTSIDE of Europe. I mean, I haven't heard of any segregation of Romani peoples in America. In Europe, I don't think that's the case. I'm not even sure if they believe in assimilation. I DO know that British comedienne Tracey Ullman recorded one of my favorite pop songs of the 80s: "They Don't Know" that managed to do quite well in the US as well too. I think she is of Romani descent and is rich as hell:

    It's like all slurs, some people within that group use it, some do not. Outsiders should definitely never use it. Especially the lower case version that is pejorative no matter how it's used.

    You haven't heard of a lot of discrimination because it was affective. Assimilation is a completely different thing than allowing people to flourish and succeed. Assimilation is forcing usually poc to act more white to fit in with society in order for them to have a chance at being given a better life. It assumes the white way is the best way. No, different races and ethnicities are not gonna want to assimilate and there is nothing wrong with that. It's forced erasure.

    Tracy is of descent but there aren't a lot of full blood Romani that have been allowed to succeed. Being of descent and looking white have benefits most Romani don't have.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  15. #9420
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    It's like all slurs, some people within that group use it, some do not. Outsiders should definitely never use it. Especially the lower case version that is pejorative no matter how it's used.

    You haven't heard of a lot of discrimination because it was affective. Assimilation is a completely different thing than allowing people to flourish and succeed. Assimilation is forcing usually poc to act more white to fit in with society in order for them to have a chance at being given a better life. It assumes the white way is the best way. No, different races and ethnicities are not gonna want to assimilate and there is nothing wrong with that. It's forced erasure.

    Tracy is of descent but there aren't a lot of full blood Romani that have been allowed to succeed. Being of descent and looking white have benefits most Romani don't have.
    I just think there's a lot of ignorance regarding this community. Tracey Ullman looks VERY white to me. Assimilation can be somewhat coercive. I know that many Greek and Jewish people changed their surnames because they didn't wanna get hassled. I don't think most folks in America even know the g-word is a slur! I mean, I don't know you but I imagine you might have referred to folks with dwarfism as "midgets" and folks suffering from learning disabilities as "retards" back in the day when those terms weren't considered as hurtful as much as they are today? I think a lack of awareness is to blame here.

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