"HEX Be a Lady!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2021

[teapartyofthedead]

But the thing is, I am a terrible human being. Yeah, the whole Stormy Daniels thing opened my eyes to the porn industry. Comics gate? It sounds more like a SCANDAL to me than a hate movement. I think I should do some research on this matter! Thank you for bringing it to my attention. When I was reading comics in the 90s, this stuff was NOT an issue. I had no idea things got so toxic.

I’m certainly glad your position on sex work has changed. But I need to warn you about comics gate. The reason it sounds like a scandal is due to how this hate movement tries to position itself as: concerned consumers angry at corrupt industries. It’s an off branch of gamer gate. This hate movement tries to say their actions are justified. That’s a lie. They just really hate women and anyone that isn’t a white straight male going near their toys.

The real scandal was that they were ever considered reasonable by anyone.

[GenericUsername]

It is a hate movement because they've doxxed women and threatened their lives just for existing in industries that were male dominant. Gamergaters/comicsgaters are usually not wrapped too tight.

[Albert1981]

It's not a lot to ask of male writers. Comics have had decent writers and bad writers in that regard. Most of them have been men. It's not gender. It's that some writers are plot focused and that plot does not prioritize relationships. And some are character driven and focus on relationships.

There have been male writers taken to task for their writing of women. But that is their own personal shortcomings. Not a gender exclusive thing. I hate to break it to you, but female writers have and can write other women badly. And have written them as punchy or science driven only while not realizing their own mistake that women are not all the same.

This idea that men should be excused from it is ridiculous. We are in 2021.

I have lower standards than you. It prevents me from getting disappointed. From what I've seen of the series, Wanda looks calm and composed in the trailers thus far. No sign of madness and insanity at all. Which makes me really happy. Vision looks like a chickenshit though. In my limited experience with women writers, I haven't seen any problems with how they portray women. Admittedly, I haven't read THAT many books written by women. The Catcher in the Rye, Fahrenheit 451, and 1984 (and Star Trek) have made more impressions on me than many comic books. But I'm trying to change that now by reading more comics. But they are REALLY expensive and I don't like the pacing sometimes. I also despise how "events" intrude on books with characters I like in them. I think the Scarlet Witch solo series suffered because they had to work in that Civil War stuff which I didn't read about at all. I just didn't care about that. Apparently the Vision solo book didn't have that problem and that made it better.

I don't think men should be cut THAT much slack for writing women badly these days. We are well into the 2020s now. But old habits die hard. Tropes endure subconsciously. And change can't happen over night. And don't give me that horseshit about "hating to break it to me". I think you enjoy giving me a hard time!

Oh, and one more thing. Elizabeth Olsen's (the Scarlet Witch) favorite book is The Sun Also Rises by Hemingway. It's also one of mine as well. Lots of macho behavior in that one! But you already probably knew that.

[Albert1981]

I’m certainly glad your position on sex work has changed. But I need to warn you about comics gate. The reason it sounds like a scandal is due to how this hate movement tries to position itself as: concerned consumers angry at corrupt industries. It’s an off branch of gamer gate. This hate movement tries to say their actions are justified. That’s a lie. They just really hate women and anyone that isn’t a white straight male going near their toys.

The real scandal was that they were ever considered reasonable by anyone.

Yeah, I've changed my opinion about sex workers. I used to think they were degenerate and immoral people. But nobody aspires to be sex workers. They just got caught up in bad situations. I doubt the women in various royal families throughout the world have to face those difficult choices. I'm less judgmental these days. I'm actually okay with progressive, liberal as well as conservative, traditional views. I think there's plenty of room for reasonable debate there. I just think respect should be the word of the day. And folks should try to be kind and understanding regardless of what you think of other people's opinions.

[GenericUsername]

I have lower standards than you. It prevents me from getting disappointed. From what I've seen of the series, Wanda looks calm and composed in the trailers thus far. No sign of madness and insanity at all. Which makes me really happy. Vision looks like a chickenshit though. In my limited experience with women writers, I haven't seen any problems with how they portray women. Admittedly, I haven't read THAT many books written by women. The Catcher in the Rye, Fahrenheit 451, and 1984 (and Star Trek) have made more impressions on me than many comic books. But I'm trying to change that now by reading more comics. But they are REALLY expensive and I don't like the pacing sometimes. I also despise how "events" intrude on books with characters I like in them. I think the Scarlet Witch solo series suffered because they had to work in that Civil War stuff which I didn't read about at all. I just didn't care about that. Apparently the Vision solo book didn't have that problem and that made it better.

I don't think men should be cut THAT much slack for writing women badly these days. We are well into the 2020s now. But old habits die hard. Tropes endure subconsciously. And change can't happen over night. And don't give me that horseshit about "hating to break it to me". I think you enjoy giving me a hard time!

It's not a matter of expectation. Just knowing that it can be done better because it has been. I have the option to not buy or read. Because it's too expensive to pay for subpar.

You are judging by your own expectations of how women are portrayed. But have your own very narrow view of women.

I didn't think CW II had much of an impact on Wanda's solo. Just the one weird argument with Pietro. Much of it was about her finding her mom.

Like I said, men have written relationships well. Claremont was one. Gruenwald, Matteis, even Englehart during Vision and the Scarlet Witch.

Many of the problems with relationships is a newer problem. Because the focus in how relationships are depicted has changed. They are background setting to the plot.

That isn't to say comics haven't been bad to female characters. There's a list of fridgings of female characters for that reason.

It is to say that men can write that stuff. That there isn't anything chromisome wise that determines being able to write romance or relationships better. That's a dated view.

And the reason that Gail Simone put together a list like that wasn't to say that men can't write women. It was because she knows they have and can do better.

[Albert1981]

It's not a matter of expectation. Just knowing that it can be done better because it has been. I have the option to not buy or read. Because it's too expensive to pay for subpar.

You are judging by your own expectations of how women are portrayed. But have your own very narrow view of women.

I didn't think CW II had much of an impact on Wanda's solo. Just the one weird argument with Pietro. Much of it was about her finding her mom.

Like I said, men have written relationships well. Claremont was one. Gruenwald, Matteis, even Englehart during Vision and the Scarlet Witch.

Many of the problems with relationships is a newer problem. Because the focus in how relationships are depicted has changed. They are background setting to the plot.

That isn't to say comics haven't been bad to female characters. There's a list of fridgings of female characters for that reason.

It is to say that men can write that stuff. That there isn't anything chromisome wise that determines being able to write romance or relationships better. That's a dated view.

And the reason that Gail Simone put together a list like that wasn't to say that men can't write women. It was because she knows they have and can do better.

I willingly concede that many men have written romance well in the comic book world. There are plenty of iconic couples that emerged as a result of the efforts of mostly male writers. So yes, I agree with you there. For Wanda and Vision to move on, I think they both should be with other people. I just thought for Vision he should hang out with a human lady because his android partners never seem to stay with him for very long. A more stable relationship for him and one for Wanda would bring a lot of closure for each of them. It'll be fun to compare which new couple will be more popular and long-lasting. I hope Marvel Comics adopts this idea, but I think they like torturing them both for kicks.

And maybe my views about women are narrow and old-fashioned. Perhaps they're unrealistic in 21st century comic books. But I gravitate towards female characters that are emotionally intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate. I prefer Wanda be like that as opposed to being a cynical, badass "bitch". In the Week of Ultron, her behavior was not just ruthless and hateful, I think it was actually EVIL. Her relationship with Vision calmed her down a lot and she's become a warm personality. Very different from other female heroes in the MCU. I would like her to stay that way. So yes, if you believe my views about female superheroes to be sexist, please feel free to call me a misogynist or whatever.

[GenericUsername]

I willingly concede that many men have written romance well in the comic book world. There are plenty of iconic couples that emerged as a result of the efforts of mostly male writers. So yes, I agree with you there. For Wanda and Vision to move on, I think they both should be with other people. I just thought for Vision he should hang out with a human lady because his android partners never seem to stay with him for very long. A more stable relationship for him and one for Wanda would bring a lot of closure for each of them. It'll be fun to compare which new couple will be more popular and long-lasting. I hope Marvel Comics adopts this idea, but I think they like torturing them both for kicks.

And maybe my views about women are narrow and old-fashioned. Perhaps they're unrealistic in 21st century comic books. But I gravitate towards female characters that are emotionally intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate. I prefer Wanda be like that as opposed to being a cynical, badass "bitch". In the Week of Ultron, her behavior was not just ruthless and hateful, I think it was actually EVIL. Her relationship with Vision calmed her down a lot and she's become a warm personality. Very different from other female heroes in the MCU. I would like her to stay that way. So yes, if you believe my views about female superheroes to be sexist, please feel free to call me a misogynist or whatever.

I also feel Wanda and Vision should be with others at this point. They can stay friends though.

I just think the idea that women can write romance better to be dated. Because that's just not something gender specific.

[Albert1981]

I also feel Wanda and Vision should be with others at this point. They can stay friends though.

I just think the idea that women can write romance better to be dated. Because that's just not something gender specific.

Well, I'm glad you agree. It's nice to be in accord about something. But somehow I DOUBT Marvel Comics would take up this idea. They've had AMPLE opportunity do so, but haven't pulled the trigger. I don't know why. It's the whole will they, won't they kind of thing that they like, but at this point that's become pretty tiresome (at least for me). That being said, I have NO desire for Wanda and Vision to break up in the MCU. I think it will be funny for them to have a weird and wacky family together. I doubt they'll bring in the Wonder Man love triangle stuff because he played no role in Vision's creation in the movies so their relationship won't be destroyed because of the shared brain waves thing. I guess we can thank Whedon (who didn't understand what Simon was for) for that. I have no problem there when it comes to the deviation from the source material. I kind of think Marvel hasn't settled the Wanda and Vision thing once for all because of their twin kids. When I stopped reading comics, Billy and Tommy were dead as Elvis. It's only recently that I discovered they were very much alive. Comic books are bizarre. I think Wanda's and Vision's relationship with the boys has to be dealt with before they can pursue other relationships. But apparently Marvel Comics hasn't done anything on this front either. Hopefully WandaVision will deal with this matter so that everybody is happy.

I suppose men can write romance. But from I understand, literally ONE HUNDRED percent of romance novelists today are female. And the readership of those novels are OVERWHELMINGLY women as well. So I guess the perception of men being unable to write romance is pretty widespread. For me, I just hate the cringey romantic banter in superhero movies (mostly written by males). I wasn't upset that Bruce and Natasha got together in the Week of Ultron. I was unhappy because they didn't use the time focused on their relationship on ULTRON (my all-time favorite Marvel villain). To be honest, I also hated that they spent precious screentime on T'Challa's former love interest in that Black Panther film. They could have easily zeroed in on the relationship between the Black Panther, his sister and his mother and connect them together with T'Challa's dead father. That would have been more than enough in my view. But we have more forced love interests which I hate and are totally unnecessary. As I've said many times before, I liked how Wanda and Vision got together in the movies. Not after some epic battle or anything, but because they liked spicy Hungarian food. I just felt that relationship was SO rushed. I didn't think they got THAT close in Captain America: Civil War in order for them to get together in Infinity War like the way that they did. Vision didn't even TRY to rescue Wanda in that prison at the end of Captain America: Civil War. So I guess he didn't care about her THAT much. It's similar to how Jericho and Wanda got together in the comic books. Too fast. But comics don't have the excuse of having to rush things like the movies do. So two thumbs down Marvel Comics. And did I mention I HATED the cringey romantic banter of the Amazing Spider-Man movies? And how Lois Lane loved her Pulitzer Prize more than Clark Kent in Man of Steel? And how Strange and Christine basically screamed at each other the whole time they were together in that first Doctor Strange movie? All of those movies were written by men. So I think it's safe to say that the mostly male writers of the modern superhero movies have bungled romance badly. From what I've seen thus far, Jac Schaeffer seems to know what the hell she's doing in WandaVision when it comes to romance. Disney Plus labelled this series as a "romance". At this point, I don't trust Marvel Studios' male writers to write a good one.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Well, I'm glad you agree. It's nice to be in accord about something. But somehow I DOUBT Marvel Comics would take up this idea. They've had AMPLE opportunity do so, but haven't pulled the trigger. I don't know why. It's the whole will they, won't they kind of thing that they like, but at this point that's become pretty tiresome (at least for me). That being said, I have NO desire for Wanda and Vision to break up in the MCU. I think it will be funny for them to have a weird and wacky family together. I doubt they'll bring in the Wonder Man love triangle stuff because he played no role in Vision's creation in the movies so their relationship won't be destroyed because of the shared brain waves thing. I guess we can thank Whedon (who didn't understand what Simon was for) for that. I have no problem there when it comes to the deviation from the source material. I kind of think Marvel hasn't settled the Wanda and Vision thing once for all because of their twin kids. When I stopped reading comics, Billy and Tommy were dead as Elvis. It's only recently that I discovered they were very much alive. Comic books are bizarre. I think Wanda's and Vision's relationship with the boys has to be dealt with before they can pursue other relationships. But apparently Marvel Comics hasn't done anything on this front either. Hopefully WandaVision will deal with this matter so that everybody is happy.

I'm sure Whedon knew about Simon, but he had 2 hours and he's not going to waste that setting up Simon. Originally he wanted Janet van Dyne, played by Morena Baccarin, to be his Wasp in the movie but that was let go once filming began. And it's the MCU things aren't the same, part of what changed Hank Pym not being there, if they even wanted him there's as because Edgar Wright had dibs on him for Ant-man. Except Wanda is very close to the twins in the comics, she's routinely there for them as a gust star in Avengers comics and recently Billy's husband defended her against Krkaao via diplomat in SWORD. Read Ewing's New Avengers, I think in her recent solo she helped Billy plan his wedding.

I suppose men can write romance. But from I understand, literally ONE HUNDRED percent of romance novelists today are female. And the readership of those novels are OVERWHELMINGLY women as well. So I guess the perception of men being unable to write romance is pretty widespread. For me, I just hate the cringey romantic banter in superhero movies (mostly written by males). I wasn't upset that Bruce and Natasha got together in the Week of Ultron. I was unhappy because they didn't use the time focused on their relationship on ULTRON (my all-time favorite Marvel villain). To be honest, I also hated that they spent precious screentime on T'Challa's former love interest in that Black Panther film. They could have easily zeroed in on the relationship between the Black Panther, his sister and his mother and connect them together with T'Challa's dead father. That would have been more than enough in my view. But we have more forced love interests which I hate and are totally unnecessary. As I've said many times before, I liked how Wanda and Vision got together in the movies. Not after some epic battle or anything, but because they liked spicy Hungarian food. I just felt that relationship was SO rushed. I didn't think they got THAT close in Captain America: Civil War in order for them together in Infinity War like they did. Vision didn't even TRY to rescue Wanda in that prison at the end of Captain America: Civil War. So I guess he didn't care about her THAT much. It's similar to how Jericho and Wanda got together in the comic books. Too fast. But comics don't have the excuse of having to rush things like the movies do. So two thumbs down Marvel Comics. And did I mention I HATED the cringey romantic banter of the Amazing Spider-Man movies? And how Lois Lane loved her Pulitzer Prize more than Clark Kent in Man of Steel? And how Strange and Christine basically screamed at each other the whole time they were together in that first Doctor Strange movie? All of those movies were written by men. So I think it's safe to say that the mostly male writers of the modern superhero movies have bungled romance badly. From what I've seen thus far, Jac Schaeffer seems to know what the hell she's doing in WandaVision when it comes to romance. Disney Plus labelled this series as a "romance". At this point, I don't trust Marvel Studios' male writers to write a good one.

Wrong, men write romance in romance books. They're rare and many use female aliases because people are turned off by men writing those books. Nakia was incredible in Black panther, I could see why he'd want her to be his queen and they had chemistry together. The Bruce/Nat romance was a dud, but the movie behind the scenes was a train wreck. Whedon was burnt out for working on the MCU for years between Avengers films. Just because Vision didn't rescue Wanda himself didn't mean he didn't care about her, clearly he does but it's Cap's film so he gets that task. Their relationship is mostly done off-screen, which is why they're much closer together by Infinite War. It's hardly been a fast relationship, it's been built up over multiple films with ups and downs and neither got them are allowed to be centre stage. Was their relationship rushed in the comics? They were together for years on again and off again, got married, had children. Most super-heroes don't have relationships that last that long. Writers had to to absurd lengths to break them apart. Lois Lane barely started dating Clark in Man of Steel, they just met over a couple days in that movie. Just because many male writers don't do good romance don't write off the entire gender, and there are eight writers on Wanda Vision, what's difficult is to find who they are so I don't know if any are men. The other shows will have romance, as well, and you can bet they hired male writers for those shows. I don't expect much romance form Falcon and Winter Solider but Ms. Marvel. Yes. She-Hulk? Yes. Moon Knight? Yes.

[Wiccan]

There's a bunch of cute moments, but overall Marvel hasn't done enough in regards to Wanda/Vision (especially him) having a relationship with Billy/Tommy, and I feel like the only way to truly reconcile that would be with flashbacks from after Children's Crusade. I mean, we could get more moments now too. But I feel liked it'd be weird to do the "Let's try to be closer/know more about each other" at this point, so we just have to assume they sorted things out off-panel.

[GenericUsername]

Well, I'm glad you agree. It's nice to be in accord about something. But somehow I DOUBT Marvel Comics would take up this idea. They've had AMPLE opportunity do so, but haven't pulled the trigger. I don't know why. It's the whole will they, won't they kind of thing that they like, but at this point that's become pretty tiresome (at least for me). That being said, I have NO desire for Wanda and Vision to break up in the MCU. I think it will be funny for them to have a weird and wacky family together. I doubt they'll bring in the Wonder Man love triangle stuff because he played no role in Vision's creation in the movies so their relationship won't be destroyed because of the shared brain waves thing. I guess we can thank Whedon (who didn't understand what Simon was for) for that. I have no problem there when it comes to the deviation from the source material. I kind of think Marvel hasn't settled the Wanda and Vision thing once for all because of their twin kids. When I stopped reading comics, Billy and Tommy were dead as Elvis. It's only recently that I discovered they were very much alive. Comic books are bizarre. I think Wanda's and Vision's relationship with the boys has to be dealt with before they can pursue other relationships. But apparently Marvel Comics hasn't done anything on this front either. Hopefully WandaVision will deal with this matter so that everybody is happy.

I suppose men can write romance. But from I understand, literally ONE HUNDRED percent of romance novelists today are female. And the readership of those novels are OVERWHELMINGLY women as well. So I guess the perception of men being unable to write romance is pretty widespread. For me, I just hate the cringey romantic banter in superhero movies (mostly written by males). I wasn't upset that Bruce and Natasha got together in the Week of Ultron. I was unhappy because they didn't use the time focused on their relationship on ULTRON (my all-time favorite Marvel villain). To be honest, I also hated that they spent precious screentime on T'Challa's former love interest in that Black Panther film. They could have easily zeroed in on the relationship between the Black Panther, his sister and his mother and connect them together with T'Challa's dead father. That would have been more than enough in my view. But we have more forced love interests which I hate and are totally unnecessary. As I've said many times before, I liked how Wanda and Vision got together in the movies. Not after some epic battle or anything, but because they liked spicy Hungarian food. I just felt that relationship was SO rushed. I didn't think they got THAT close in Captain America: Civil War in order for them to get together in Infinity War like the way that they did. Vision didn't even TRY to rescue Wanda in that prison at the end of Captain America: Civil War. So I guess he didn't care about her THAT much. It's similar to how Jericho and Wanda got together in the comic books. Too fast. But comics don't have the excuse of having to rush things like the movies do. So two thumbs down Marvel Comics. And did I mention I HATED the cringey romantic banter of the Amazing Spider-Man movies? And how Lois Lane loved her Pulitzer Prize more than Clark Kent in Man of Steel? And how Strange and Christine basically screamed at each other the whole time they were together in that first Doctor Strange movie? All of those movies were written by men. So I think it's safe to say that the mostly male writers of the modern superhero movies have bungled romance badly. From what I've seen thus far, Jac Schaeffer seems to know what the hell she's doing in WandaVision when it comes to romance. Disney Plus labelled this series as a "romance". At this point, I don't trust Marvel Studios' male writers to write a good one.

A lot of the typical stuff from certain industries is based on a lot of stereotypes anyway. So it makes it harder for people not expected to get into certain careers. That says nothing about ability though. And the audience it appeals to doesn't either. Comics themselves started out as romance oriented. And we aren't even talking about them turning into romance novels anyway. But just having relationships, not even just romantic ones, be the focus. I absolutely believe writers of all genders are capable of understanding and writing relationships. Good or bad writers do not have a typical descriptor. You are gonna get good and bad from every type of person.

Lots of characters have relationships, platonic or not. And people typically love those links. They make the characters more well rounded. They create progression and growth. They can be detrimental if written bad or just because that relationship is coming to an end. But there's a lot of story that can come from relationships. And with comics having had that before, it's absolutely in their wheel house.

[leokearon]

I also feel Wanda and Vision should be with others at this point. They can stay friends though.

I just think the idea that women can write romance better to be dated. Because that's just not something gender specific.

Yeah, sadly Wanda and Vision are too apart to ever come back together in the comics.
I agree it is dated and I always found the idea that you have to be the same as the character you are writing (Black characters should only be written by Black writers for example) in order to be good ridiculous and a clear example of positive discrimination

[juan678]

[Probability010]

[teapartyofthedead]

What a great way to start the morning. Thanks, Juan!