"HEX Be a Lady!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2021

[CosmiComic]

Oh Mags goes back and forth. Sometimes he's good, sometimes not. He started out being very villainous until Claremont humanized him, which coincided with him being made Wanda and Pietro's father. Which was also around the time they started having Wanda act villainous again. Which is why Mags fans tend to want him to stay their father (the connection to his humanity) and Wanda fans hate it (because it was the start of bad things for her).

But some X-fans are ok with anyone bad in their books as long as they've done things in their books. It's a tribal thing.

I'd prioritize Wanda over Erik. She hasn't had as much focus in the MCU until recently, whereas he's had several XCU films. Plus I think her fans are right about the connection to Magneto. It doesn't help her and I don't want it in the MCU

I don't think either group of fans should be tribal, tbh

I personally think it would be better for BW to get her solo movie earlier and leave the space for characters like Jan in Avengers and maybe Sharon in CA movies.

I kinda feel they missed the oppurtunity by using the Ultimate comic elements like his family, Clint just feels very stripped down in MCU, sure there is nothing with "mature SHIELD veteran Hawkeye", but he is just boring compared to hotheaded circus kid Clint. And of course even the Clint/Kate relationship works better when Clint is younger(like 30ish), Clint being old enough to be Kate's dad just kinda break that dynamic for me.

I'd say BW doesn't have much solo material, but then again Shang-Chi doesn't either, so both can get solo movies. Frankly it annoyed me in the first Avengers how the only female hero wasn't actually a superhero, and we had to wait until AoU for one, and then Ant-Man where Janet is fridged and replaced by Hope who isn't allowed to be a hero in that or Civil War. That's kinda why I didn't like Ant-Man 1 anyway.

As for Hawkeye I agree. Although isn't Clint old enough to be her dad in the comics? If he's about Wanda's age, and she has adult sons the same age as Kate, right?

[MaximoffTrash]

I'd prioritize Wanda over Erik. She hasn't had as much focus in the MCU until recently, whereas he's had several XCU films. Plus I think her fans are right about the connection to Magneto. It doesn't help her and I don't want it in the MCU

I don't think either group of fans should be tribal, tbh



I'd say BW doesn't have much solo material, but then again Shang-Chi doesn't either, so both can get solo movies. Frankly it annoyed me in the first Avengers how the only female hero wasn't actually a superhero, and we had to wait until AoU for one, and then Ant-Man where Janet is fridged and replaced by Hope who isn't allowed to be a hero in that or Civil War. That's kinda why I didn't like Ant-Man 1 anyway.

As for Hawkeye I agree. Although isn't Clint old enough to be her dad in the comics? If he's about Wanda's age, and she has adult sons the same age as Kate, right?

Tommy and Billy are older than Wanda's original twins had they been kept alive. It is mentioned in the Robinson run.
The age gap is around 10 years I think. So you have 30ish Cint with 21 YO Kate in Fraction's Hawkeye.

[GenericUsername]

I'd prioritize Wanda over Erik. She hasn't had as much focus in the MCU until recently, whereas he's had several XCU films. Plus I think her fans are right about the connection to Magneto. It doesn't help her and I don't want it in the MCU

I don't think either group of fans should be tribal, tbh

Yeah it floors me because X-Men have had what, like 6 or 7 films for the team alone and not even solo ventures, but some want everyone else's shows and movies to be taken over by them and it's very annoying.

That tribalism is odd, and extreme for sure.

[CosmiComic]

Tommy and Billy are older than Wanda's original twins had they been kept alive. It is mentioned in the Robinson run.
The age gap is around 10 years I think. So you have 30ish Cint with 21 YO Kate in Fraction's Hawkeye.

Really? That's it between them? I assumed at least 18 years. Did he really not age that much?

Yeah it floors me because X-Men have had what, like 6 or 7 films for the team alone and not even solo ventures, but some want everyone else's shows and movies to be taken over by them and it's very annoying.

That tribalism is odd, and extreme for sure.

Correct. D+ shows are here to give screen time to supporting characters in the films, like SW, Vision, Falcon, Spectrum/Photon and Ms. Marvel, not introduce Magneto for the 100th time

[Lucyinthesky]

I would disagree Claremont´s humanization of Magneto didn´t have much or anything to do with Wanda or even Pietro. He introduced his past with Xavier on Israel and as an holocaust survivor and his relationship with Magda and Anya as precursors to his change in becoming part of the X-men and headmaster of the New mutants, he wanted him to become an ideological defensor of mutants and teacher for the X-men new generation. This was Claremont´s plan to humanize Magneto so when John Byrne introduced the idea of him being the twins father Claremont did add that to the canon but dind´t add anything else about it. I myself as a magneto fan only discovered they were related until I read Onslaught and Bloodties from the 90´s. So I would say Magneto´s humanization and Wanda´s becoming "Darker than Scarlet" are not really related events,Byrne just wanted an Avengers verion of Jean´s Dark Phoenix Saga.

Most fans of the family I have seen, become fans because they have read individual stories of the characters and think they being related adds to their development not because they prioritize one character over the other. For example I could make the argument Pietro´s character development by Peter David in the 90´s came at the expense of Magneto being turned into a villain but that would not be true, because editorial at the time wanted Magneto as a main villain for the X-men, his relationship with Pietro was not really a factor on that so I would say that´s more the case of the editorial offices not the fans.

[GenericUsername]

I would disagree Claremont´s humanization of Magneto didn´t have much or anything to do with Wanda or even Pietro. He introduced his past with Xavier on Israel and as an holocaust survivor and his relationship with Magda and Anya as precursors to his change in becoming part of the X-men and headmaster of the New mutants, he wanted him to become an ideological defensor of mutants and teacher for the X-men new generation. This was Claremont´s plan to humanize Magneto so when John Byrne introduced the idea of him being the twins father Claremont did add that to the canon but dind´t add anything else about it. I myself as a magneto fan only discovered they were related until I read Onslaught and Bloodties from the 90´s. So I would say Magneto´s humanization and Wanda´s becoming "Darker than Scarlet" are not really related events,Byrne just wanted an Avengers verion of Jean´s Dark Phoenix Saga.

Most fans of the family I have seen, become fans because they have read individual stories of the characters and think they being related adds to their development not because they prioritize one character over the other. For example I could make the argument Pietro´s character development by Peter David in the 90´s came at the expense of Magneto being turned into a villain but that would not be true, because editorial at the time wanted Magneto as a main villain for the X-men, his relationship with Pietro was not really a factor on that so I would say that´s more the case of the editorial offices not the fans.

Didn't say it had completely to do with it, but writers worked together to make things work together. And his helmet off reveal as well. This is all described in the book Marvel The Untold Story, that Marvel themselves have promoted. Even the reason Mags has white hair is because of Pietro.

And yes, they made efforts to make Wanda's personality closer to Mags after they were related. Things that weren't present before.

[Lucyinthesky]

I read Claremont´s interviews so I guess everyone has their own version of the events because he and Byrne obviously didn´t get along well, despite doing some really interesting work together.

Yes I remember those details as well but they were mostly done on the Avengers side because they already knew about Claremont´s future plans with Magneto,that´s also why they hinted at it during Secret Wars I and they wanted the twins to have a different origin story, it was still a time when marvel wanted their world to be cohesive so it made sense to leave clues on different comics.

I don´t really think Wanda becoming an avengers antagonist came in the cards until Byrne´s run who hated the idea of Wanda and Vision being together and really liked the Dark Phoenix Saga story, the only other time Wanda became an antagonist was when she was possesed by Chton but I don´t remember who wrote that story.

[GenericUsername]

I read Claremont´s interviews so I guess everyone has their own version of the events because he and Byrne obviously didn´t get along well, despite doing some really interesting work together.

Yes I remember those details as well but they were mostly done on the Avengers side because they already knew about Claremont´s future plans with Magneto,that´s also why they hinted at it during Secret Wars I and they wanted the twins to have a different origin story, it was still a time when marvel wanted their world to be cohesive so it made sense to leave clues on different comics.

I don´t really think Wanda becoming an avengers antagonist came in the cards until Byrne´s run who hated the idea of Wanda and Vision being together and really liked the Dark Phoenix Saga story, the only other time Wanda became an antagonist was when she was possesed by Chton but I don´t remember who wrote that story.

Wanda as antagonist was before that. They just told it better because they used it to flesh out her story.

Those were written by Steven Grant, Mark Gruenwald and David Michelinie

[Lucyinthesky]

Wanda as antagonist was before that. They just told it better because they used it to flesh out her story.

Those were written by Steven Grant, Mark Gruenwald and David Michelinie

Yes I agree that story was better.

[gurkle]

Remember, Byrne was co-plotter with Claremont and had a lot of freedom to draw what he wanted. The scene in X-Men #125, where Magneto calls up a picture of Magda and we see that she looks like Wanda (well, like many artists, all Byrne's women look exactly the same, but still), was almost certainly something Byrne put in to tie in with the Avengers story he was drawing at the same time. (What a workhorse!)

Claremont went along with it in the dialogue, probably working from Byrne's notes, but I think he had zero interest in Magneto as Wanda and Pietro's father, because he never did anything with it, barely even mentioned it. When the twins and Magneto found out they were related, it was in a book from the Avengers office; Claremont's X-books didn't mention it at all. I don't know if he was for or against the idea, or if he just felt that Wanda belonged to the Avengers office and it would be pointless to try and involve her in his books. But he definitely treated it like something that was Byrne's thing and not his.

[CosmiComic]

What was the reason for making them related?

[gurkle]

What was the reason for making them related?

It's a long story, but in 1979 a team of writers, plus Byrne as artist, set out to do a story where they would provide a full backstory for Wanda and Pietro, and one thing they agreed on was that they didn't like an earlier retcon that made their parents the Golden Age superheroes the Whizzer and Miss America (I don't remember exactly why, but there were stories about the Whizzer as Wanda's dad and they weren't very good).

So they were trying to figure out who their real parents should be, and someone, probably Byrne, remembered an X-Men story where Magneto took his hat off and the artist drew his hair a bit likc Quicksilver's. So they went: what if Magneto, their boss in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, was actually their father and none of them knew it? So that's what they did.

[CosmiComic]

It's a long story, but in 1979 a team of writers, plus Byrne as artist, set out to do a story where they would provide a full backstory for Wanda and Pietro, and one thing they agreed on was that they didn't like an earlier retcon that made their parents the Golden Age superheroes the Whizzer and Miss America

So they were trying to figure out who their real parents should be, and someone, probably Byrne, remembered an X-Men story where Magneto took his hat off and the artist drew his hair a bit likc Quicksilver's. So they went: what if Magneto, their boss in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, was actually their father and none of them knew it? So that's what they did.

That's it? They had the same hair color? But wasn't Magneto not that much older than them anyway?

I don't care about Whizzer (dear God that name!) or Miss America (the original), but they did know Captain America so them being the parents would sort of connect him to the twins, and he's their friend and colleague

[gurkle]

That's it? They had the same hair color? But wasn't Magneto not that much older than them anyway?

I don't care about Whizzer (dear God that name!) or Miss America (the original), but they did know Captain America so them being the parents would sort of connect him to the twins, and he's their friend and colleague

Neal Adams gave Magneto those little hair horns that Pietro also has. I don't know why, but it's one of those little things that gave other creators an idea for a story.

Part of the problem with making the twins the children of the Whizzer and Miss America is that it means they were born at a particular time, so they couldn't fit into the sliding timeline. Ironically, the same thing would happen later when Claremont revealed Magneto was a Holocaust survivor, which meant Wanda and Pietro had to have been born in the 1940s. But again he wasn't thinking of Wanda and Pietro when he did that story.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

That's it? They had the same hair color? But wasn't Magneto not that much older than them anyway?

I don't care about Whizzer (dear God that name!) or Miss America (the original), but they did know Captain America so them being the parents would sort of connect him to the twins, and he's their friend and colleague

John is a weird guy. He did a similar thing with Norman Osborn and Sandman. Making them related because they had similar hair.