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  1. #4306
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    Also, no X-Men. Not even Wolverine!

  2. #4307
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    People don't like OMD because it trashed Spider-man in the same way HoM trashed Wanda.

    TV tropes has a whole section about villains winning. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...ins/ComicBooks
    Oh, thanks for that. So the bad guys DO win sometimes in superhero comic books!

  3. #4308
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Well, villains get away without consequences in the real world sometimes

    And the limitations can be just as arbitrary and poorly thought out
    Yeah, but the limitations I found were really good in Strange's first movie. They had to be to make it work.

  4. #4309
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    many Dr Strange fans hated that the movie centers around those energy-spell-hand-things as Doctor Strange it's a Kung Fu master or something, i'm not against Doctor Strange using hand-to-hand combat. In fact, Doctor Strange does know how to fight in the comics. he's the Sorcerer Supreme my problem is just how often they use kung-fu and other martial arts in that film. It seems like instead of really embracing magic and setting Strange even further apart from the other superheroes, they wanted to ground the magic more in reality so they made most of the magic in the film just a way for the characters to conjure weapons like invisible swords, energy nun-chucks, and other things that just result in fist-fights.
    Yeah, I've heard comments on the Strange thread that his first movie was like a wuxia flick. Maybe because I like it when magic is grounded in reality, I didn't mind it as much. Folding space to crush your enemies, manipulating gravity to disorient them. I LOVE that shit. It AUGMENTED the "martial arts" stuff very nicely in my opinion.

    I found this to be one of the better examples of how magic might actually be used if you had the type of power Strange et al. had, specifically in the mirror dimension. I, for one, am glad that they didn't rely on beam battles ONLY as the representation of magic. They look neat, but feel so one-dimensional within the possibilities of a full magic system. Moving space and folding it on itself felt like such an amazing and obvious extension of that magic system that of course they would use. Magic always seems to be used in ways that just replace our weapons when it could be used in so many more imaginative ways. I think the movie did a much better job of that then most.

    The magic was nice because it was both completely mind-bending and reality-warping, but also appeared to have limitations and the sorcerers fight sequences were quite physical (i.e. whips, blades and shields). I loved the hand movements they use, especially the one for opening portals. Also the film established that you have to study magic, but also believe it and connect on a more spiritual level rather than logical. I think magic should definitely have ties to belief systems. I like magic systems, but not everything should have to be explained in rational and scientific terms. Keep that sense of wonder...Or dread. Also great to see was the Eye of Agamotto sequences. It showcased just how much power and control the sorcerers could have over the world, but also explains why they shouldn't necessarily use it and the potential consequences of using such great power. Another "ethical" limitation which I liked.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 04-17-2021 at 07:24 PM.

  5. #4310
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    Ok. I'm hoping for more mystic less basic kung fu.

    Thr thing with guys like Dr. Strange ans Scarlet Witch is they're glass cannons, so even if they have powerful attacks, they can't withstand too much physical damage.

  6. #4311
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard comments on the Strange thread that his first movie was like a wuxia flick. Maybe because I like it when magic is grounded in reality, I didn't mind it as much. Folding space to crush your enemies, manipulating gravity to disorient them. I LOVE that shit.

    I found this to be one of the better examples of how magic might actually be used if you had the type of power Strange et al. had, specifically in the mirror dimension. I, for one, am glad that they didn't rely on beam battles ONLY as the representation of magic. They look neat, but feel so one-dimensional within the possibilities of a full magic system. Moving space and folding it on itself felt like such an amazing and obvious extension of that magic system that of course they would use. Magic always seems to be used in ways that just replace our weapons when it could be used in so many more imaginative ways. I think the movie did a much better job of that then most.

    The magic was nice because it was both completely mind-bending and reality-warping, but also appeared to have limitations and the sorcerers fight sequences were quite physical (i.e. whips, blades and shields). I loved the hand movements they use, especially the one for opening portals. Also the film established that you have to study magic, but also believe it and connect on a more spiritual level rather than logical. I think magic should definitely have ties to belief systems. I like magic systems, but not everything should have to be explained in rational and scientific terms. Keep that sense of wonder...Or dread. Also great to see was the Eye of Agamotto sequences. It showcased just how much power and control the sorcerers could have over the world, but also explains why they shouldn't necessarily use it and the potential consequences of using such great power. Another "ethical" limitation which I liked.
    It makes sense for a first movie. He was still learning magic, so it was better use it on a grounded way.

    He is much more magical on Infinity War

  7. #4312
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    While the answer is deliberately vague, one of the more accurate scoopers, Charles Murphy, was answering questions on Twitter today and spoilers:
    said "yes" when asked "any hopes on Wanda as a villain?"
    end of spoilers, and before that, he retweeted someone saying that spoilers:
    if characters from other franchises are coming back to life, "a certain Witch would be curious as to how that happened."
    end of spoilers

    A lot could happen that we can't predict, but spoilers:
    I definitely want to prepare myself mentally for the possibility that Wanda will wind up doing bad things to get her kids back. Which has always been my fear since the ending of her show.
    end of spoilers

    Edit: If this kind of speculation is not appropriate for this thread I'll delete and move to the MCU thread. But I thought it fit with some of the things we've been discussing in this thread.
    Last edited by gurkle; 04-17-2021 at 08:02 PM.

  8. #4313
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    I'm not sure what the interest in villainizing her would be

  9. #4314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I'm not sure what the interest in villainizing her would be
    She'd be an anti-hero, someone who does bad things for understandable or sympathetic reasons, like getting her children back. Anti-heroes are popular and this phase of the MCU seems to be heavier on anti-heroes than traditional villains.

    I'm not saying it will happen, I just thought that was where the end of her show was pointing, and where some of Schaeffer's comments about her seem to be pointing too. It's not like she'd have an evil goal like Ultron or Thanos, but I fear they find her more "interesting" if she's not doing the right thing, or at least needs a lot of prodding to do the right thing in the end.

  10. #4315
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    She'd be an anti-hero, someone who does bad things for understandable or sympathetic reasons, like getting her children back. Anti-heroes are popular and this phase of the MCU seems to be heavier on anti-heroes than traditional villains.

    I'm not saying it will happen, I just thought that was where the end of her show was pointing, and where some of Schaeffer's comments about her seem to be pointing too. It's not like she'd have an evil goal like Ultron or Thanos, but I fear they find her more "interesting" if she's not doing the right thing, or at least needs a lot of prodding to do the right thing in the end.
    I can see her being an anti-hero, but idk if it lines up with the rumor if Strange himself unleashing the threat

  11. #4316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I can see her being an anti-hero, but idk if it lines up with the rumor if Strange himself unleashing the threat
    If that description turns out to be true, then that may actually make it more likely that Wanda is going to screw up again. It really does seem like the theme of the MCU lately is that the heroes cause a lot of trouble and aren't necessarily that much better than villains.

    So I can totally see Strange screwing up and Wanda screwing up in the same movie, but I'm more confident that they would "protect" Stephen from doing anything really bad, which I'm not confident about for Wanda.

  12. #4317
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    If that description turns out to be true, then that may actually make it more likely that Wanda is going to screw up again. It really does seem like the theme of the MCU lately is that the heroes cause a lot of trouble and aren't necessarily that much better than villains.

    So I can totally see Strange screwing up and Wanda screwing up in the same movie, but I'm more confident that they would "protect" Stephen from doing anything really bad, which I'm not confident about for Wanda.
    I see. I hoped the theme going forward would be "heroes try to be heroic"

  13. #4318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I see. I hoped the theme going forward would be "heroes try to be heroic"
    Me too. But that'll probably happen later. The MCU is kind of dark and bleak after Endgame, but that's to set up things getting better.

    I wish I could be confident that Wanda will be part of that.

  14. #4319
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Me too. But that'll probably happen later. The MCU is kind of dark and bleak after Endgame, but that's to set up things getting better.

    I wish I could be confident that Wanda will be part of that.
    I hope so.

  15. #4320
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    While the answer is deliberately vague, one of the more accurate scoopers, Charles Murphy, was answering questions on Twitter today and spoilers:
    said "yes" when asked "any hopes on Wanda as a villain?"
    end of spoilers, and before that, he retweeted someone saying that spoilers:
    if characters from other franchises are coming back to life, "a certain Witch would be curious as to how that happened."
    end of spoilers

    A lot could happen that we can't predict, but spoilers:
    I definitely want to prepare myself mentally for the possibility that Wanda will wind up doing bad things to get her kids back. Which has always been my fear since the ending of her show.
    end of spoilers

    Edit: If this kind of speculation is not appropriate for this thread I'll delete and move to the MCU thread. But I thought it fit with some of the things we've been discussing in this thread.
    Yea I would not take it to seriously we saw what speculation got us with WandaVision and many of the predictions where wrong in the long parts. Also I donít take to seriously a speculation be not vague or trying to play both sides to gather hype to be curious which way a character might go, if you are to clean cut you lose hype and click speculation.

    I still easily see Wanda trending on the side of good, she had her chance to be a Villain in WandVision an d blew it cause she put the freeing of the town over her own kids and husband, so whatever road no matter how bumpy or dark in pace I donít expect at all Wanda to become a Villain, that time has easily passed, a Wanda showed who she truly was when the truth was shown.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future Ė I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS Ė From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread 2021!

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