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  1. #4906
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Claremont's original intention was to make Jean a cosmic hero on the level of Silver Surfer. It was Byrne that wanted her corrupted by her power because one very powerful X-Woman already existed with Storm.
    Because there can't be two powerful women on a team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I'm a boring, old, snob, who thinks those earliest years of the new X Men were the best and most of what followed, up until somewhere in the '90s

    Yes, those foil/super-expando-cooler-than-cool covers (multiple # 1s for certain X comics) did a lot to convince me they had mostly become Marvel's big thing and all forces were moving towards full exploitation.

    That is what it is/was to me, the X is gravy and they wanted to make the most of it.
    It's not that there are not good stories and things; over the years I've seen some great stuff, but it is not consistent enough and there still are too many superfluous characters for me.
    )and sometimes I feel that way about the FF or other comics too, so I'm trying to not pick on X comics(
    IMO the X-Men will always be more interesting than the FF

  2. #4907
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I see. I can't say I care about a lot of X-Men, like Iceman, Angel or Jubilee, but I like some of them, like Beast
    It goes without saying I love the Beast... especially when he was with the Avengers, lo those many years ago. His buddy stuff with Simon.
    The time he knelt before Wanda and said "your Witch-ship" and it was Colan drawing around then.

    I loved love loved the beast in this era.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  3. #4908
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Claremont's original intention was to make Jean a cosmic hero on the level of Silver Surfer. It was Byrne that wanted her corrupted by her power because one very powerful X-Woman already existed with Storm.
    I may have heard that the three, Byrne and Claremont and 'editorial' came to not agree on this, and so it went.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  4. #4909
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Because there can't be two powerful women on a team?



    IMO the X-Men will always be more interesting than the FF
    I have a deep, kindred kind of love for the FF

    But I also have an intersectionality point. The Days of the Future from back then with

    a grown up Franklin in love with Rachel a grownup daughter of Scott and Jean.

    I always wish this could come to pass in modern comics . . .
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  5. #4910

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I may have heard that the three, Byrne and Claremont and 'editorial' came to not agree on this, and so it went.
    Yeah Claremont didn't agree with it. Editorial agreed with Byrne.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #4911

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Because there can't be two powerful women on a team?



    IMO the X-Men will always be more interesting than the FF
    I love the F4. It's one of the few books that allows for family to actually connect with each other. There's none of this, these aren't really our children because of the sliding timescale *wink wink.* And the FF books witten by Fraction were just pure fun.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  7. #4912

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    It goes without saying I love the Beast... especially when he was with the Avengers, lo those many years ago. His buddy stuff with Simon.
    The time he knelt before Wanda and said "your Witch-ship" and it was Colan drawing around then.

    I loved love loved the beast in this era.
    Beast was a lot of fun in the Avengers books then. I think he's better A-side than X-side.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  8. #4913
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Default Off topic: Fantastic Four

    I have a deep fondness for the Fantastic Four.
    Although I didn't know it exactly, I discovered them through an old Strange Tales issue with Johnny and Sue fighting the Wizard.
    I was 8 years old, in early '64 and was quarantined in a hospital with an infectious disease. This comic was one of the very few I had, and I read it over, and over and over.
    Somewhere later, around mid '67 or so ? I came across Fantastic Four # 64, the first one with the Kree, and became a solid fan for mostly - ever to this day, despite it all.
    Naturally over my life I also read Avengers, Strange, Cap - most comics in fact!
    But fewer these days.
    I think I like Wanda best, recently, in her solo series, very much good food for thought.
    and in the Uncanny Avengers, a really cool story IMO.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  9. #4914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    It goes without saying I love the Beast... especially when he was with the Avengers, lo those many years ago. His buddy stuff with Simon.
    The time he knelt before Wanda and said "your Witch-ship" and it was Colan drawing around then.

    I loved love loved the beast in this era.
    I wouldn't mind seeing him in the MCU X-Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I have a deep, kindred kind of love for the FF

    But I also have an intersectionality point. The Days of the Future from back then with

    a grown up Franklin in love with Rachel a grownup daughter of Scott and Jean.

    I always wish this could come to pass in modern comics . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I love the F4. It's one of the few books that allows for family to actually connect with each other. There's none of this, these aren't really our children because of the sliding timescale *wink wink.* And the FF books witten by Fraction were just pure fun.
    Ok. I could never like the F4. They were always too hokey and the family dynamic always worked against them for me, especially with how static and old-fashioned the membership and the dynamic is

  10. #4915
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I'm a boring, old, snob, who thinks those earliest years of the new X Men were the best and most of what followed, up until somewhere in the '90s

    Yes, those foil/super-expando-cooler-than-cool covers (multiple # 1s for certain X comics) did a lot to convince me they had mostly become Marvel's big thing and all forces were moving towards full exploitation.

    That is what it is/was to me, the X is gravy and they wanted to make the most of it.
    It's not that there are not good stories and things; over the years I've seen some great stuff, but it is not consistent enough and there still are too many superfluous characters for me.
    )and sometimes I feel that way about the FF or other comics too, so I'm trying to not pick on X comics(
    I like Wanda. I like the X-men, too… just not the the current ones that don’t meet anymore the definition of what the X-men meant to me.

    Despite all the changes along the years, Wanda is still a courageous, sympathetic woman.

    Anyway, I don’t need to read comics to keep in my mind good memories…

  11. #4916
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Anyway, I don’t need to read comics to keep in my mind good memories…
    Most awesome. Thanks for this. Exactly how I feel too.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  12. #4917

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing him in the MCU X-Men





    Ok. I could never like the F4. They were always too hokey and the family dynamic always worked against them for me, especially with how static and old-fashioned the membership and the dynamic is
    I don't think it's old fashioned at all. When was the last time you read F4?
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  13. #4918
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I don't think it's old fashioned at all. When was the last time you read F4?
    In Empyre. I like them a little more after that. But idk, something about the group doesn't really interest me.

  14. #4919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    In Empyre. I like them a little more after that. But idk, something about the group doesn't really interest me.
    Events never make anyone interesting. They are made only to make money.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  15. #4920
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Events never make anyone interesting. They are made only to make money.
    That's the only time I liked them though

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