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  1. #1456
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Claremont's a good dude. I remember him from his X-Men days. He cares a lot about the characters he writes and respects them.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 02-21-2021 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #1457
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    I got interested in Marvel again after watching Age of Ultron. I never thought they would even contemplate bringing Wanda and Vision onscreen in live action. It had been around two decades since I picked up a Marvel book. Whatever people say about Whedon, he brought my childhood to life with that movie. So I'm one of the actual few who actually like it a lot. I even liked the "hide the zucchini" joke he put in that film...And I'd say the overwhelming majority of viewers HATED that quip. I thought it was risque and hilarious.

  3. #1458
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Quicksilver will probably remain dead. I see the Vision returning in his White form but done better. The twins will somehow stick around for any planned Young Avengers projects
    I actually don't think they're going this route. Without spoiling anything, WandaVision talks about death a LOT. There's almost a morbid obsession with the subject on that show. That's why I'm pessimistic Vision is sticking around for long.

  4. #1459
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Claremont was the X-writer who handled Wanda when she was comatose and staying with Magneto between "Avengers Disassembled" and "House of M" (so he didn't actually get to write her, but he wrote Magneto and Xavier talking about her) and then he was writing X-Men during House of M and the Decimation storyline. So it's sweet that he shares the fans' feeling of creeping dread through all this. He knows where this might lead if Feige were like a Marvel comics editor... fortunately he's probably smarter than that.

    Anyway I've kind of given up hope for a happy ending for Wanda and Vision because the entire series revolves around the idea that Wanda has to accept that his death is permanent. I haven't given up hope that the children could survive. There aren't many characters in the MCU who are parents and Wanda actually raising her teenage sons would be something new and unique for the character.

    Unfortunately there are still way too many ways the ending could go wrong even if it doesn't make Wanda the villain (which even the show itself has admitted is unlikely) so I'm not getting my hopes up too high.



    It's not a great comic, no, but Coipel's issues have some of the most incredible art of Wanda, his first chance after House of M to draw Wanda as a hero in her Avengers costume and all. Few artists have ever made her look so beautiful and powerful.

    While it wasn't great, it was probably a better event for Wanda fans than pretty much anything else in the last decade. She got to reconnect with her friends like Carol, she was written neither as a jerk nor cringingly apologetic about what she'd done... dumb event, but good for the character.
    Wow. I didn't know that. He never had much to do with Wanda and Vision throughout most of his career, so I'm a little bit surprised to learn he's that fond of them. I think he is in the minority of comic book creators though. Most seem to have some sort of weird animosity towards the two. I don't think Vision survives this series, but I do think Wanda gets to keep her kids. I don't think the three of them are going to be particularly "happy" characters after their family is torn apart, but it is what it is. I guess Wanda will be the first female superhero in the MCU to be a mom. At least for a little while.

  5. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I don't feel Carol was written off for decades; but he had a chance to rewrite or refocus her.

    I thought it was essential that her Rogue experience wiped away her memories and the emotional connections. Though her memories returned, it did take a long time for the emotional connection as I recall. Then she was experimented on by the Brood, became Binary, joined the Star Jammers so not a total neglect but sorta put in a specific area, for the not so widespread Marvel industry.
    Avengers Annual 10 occurred in 1981. After that, she became a supporting character in Claremont's X-Men. The Binary transformation gave her back her powers but it didn't lead to anything substantial since she was shunted off to character limbo in space. She didn't really become a main character in a book again until Kurt Busiek's Avengers in the late 90s. That's basically 2 decades of being reduced to obscurity (Jessica Drew is another character who got the same treatment) so it's pretty impressive that Marvel was able to build her up as their leading lady in the mid-2000s onwards.

    Why do you think it was essential that Carol lose her memories and emotional connections?

  6. #1461
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I actually don't think they're going this route. Without spoiling anything, WandaVision talks about death a LOT. There's almost a morbid obsession with the subject on that show. That's why I'm pessimistic Vision is sticking around for long.
    Well the tv show is about grief, so death is part of it

  7. #1462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Yeah, I'm looking forward to the Multiverse of Madness too. And trust me, that's very strange because I'm not always that interested in magical/mystical stories. But Cumberbatch has totally won me over with his Stark-like approach to Strange. I think it's great. I'll be happy to see Wanda there too. I do feel that Olsen already misses working with Bettany, Hahn, Peters and Shakman though. I don't know what's the deal with ATJ. Maybe he'll show up in a flashback in Episode 8? Or perhaps he was busy with other things. It sure seems like he's missing out on a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to Love and Thunder too because of Waititi, but I'm nervous about the romantic storyline between Thor and Jane. It's boring and I hope they talk about other things.
    I never really read much of Strange in the comics but I really like the Cumberbatch version so I'm excited to see him and Wanda meet. Has Olsen said anything about missing her castmates? Yeah the situation with ATJ is weird and I'd be okay with him being permanently recast like War Machine with Don Cheadle or Hulk with Mark Ruffalo if that's what it takes to bring him back. I can't imagine ATJ not wanting to come back though so it seems more like Marvel isn't interested in using him. Or maybe they only will bring him back once the X-Men and Magneto are included? I love Natalie Portman but her Jane never interested me, especially the relationship with Thor. I don't feel like the romance with Thor will take up too much time in the movie though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    You actually bring up a very interesting point.

    Will this MCU continue with only 1 of the twins?

    Or will "QS" return be part of whatever brings mutants, X-gene into the MCU.

    The distinction is enormous in most respects. Most comic fans would want to see him back, especially if that means he (or both of them) will be in X-Men movies in the MCU.
    So it almost seems that one of the things that could happen - Theory, not a spoiler - is
    Quicksilver in some form, returns to the MCU. But the Vision and the twins are collateral damage or until Strange 2 or future projects.

    Who thinks QS will be back sooner, than the X-Men or mutant characters will? Or that he won't at all?

    Most fans of the movies think Cap got the ending he deserved, with Peggy, but to me, his true romance is of course with Sharon Carter, for nearly decades.
    I don't really want to see the twins involved with the X-Men but I'd be okay with it if it brings Pietro back.

    I never read much of Steve's romance with Sharon in the comics although I figured they were endgame when Emily VanCamp was cast as Sharon in the movies. I think the problem was that fans were too invested in Steve/Peggy and the idea that Steve would move on with Peggy's descendant was too skeevy. I'm assuming though that the plan to reunite Steve and Peggy wasn't confirmed when Civil War came out otherwise Steve/Sharon there really seems like a bizarre choice. I'm glad though that Steve and Peggy were together because they're my favorite MCU romance after Wanda and Vision and I know Emily VanCamp's Sharon will continue on without Steve which might be for the better.

  8. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    As I have stated before Magneto being the twins parents only benefitted Magneto, so I don't think it should be re-established. Also Wanda has/had established parents in the MCU, we don't need the pointless family retcons that the comics seem to love.
    I feel the same. Magneto being their parents never did anything good for Wanda or Pietro and just led to more writers (namely John Byrne) to go the route of making them both crazy and evil. I don't even remember who started the phase where Pietro went crazy and started attacking the Avengers, Inhumans, etc. after Crystal cheated on him. Honestly, I've only seen X-Fans upset about the "retcon," and very few Avengers or Wanda/Pietro fans who were actually upset, because the X-Fans feel they have some sort of claim over the twins (even though they actively hate Wanda or most of them do anyway). It doesn't make sense to me especially since it's not like the twins were introduced as Magneto's kids from the beginning. It was a retcon which was even more pointless since their parentage had already been retconned before in the Avengers, so why John Byrne felt the need to do that, I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Claremont was the X-writer who handled Wanda when she was comatose and staying with Magneto between "Avengers Disassembled" and "House of M" (so he didn't actually get to write her, but he wrote Magneto and Xavier talking about her) and then he was writing X-Men during House of M and the Decimation storyline. So it's sweet that he shares the fans' feeling of creeping dread through all this. He knows where this might lead if Feige were like a Marvel comics editor... fortunately he's probably smarter than that.

    Anyway I've kind of given up hope for a happy ending for Wanda and Vision because the entire series revolves around the idea that Wanda has to accept that his death is permanent. I haven't given up hope that the children could survive. There aren't many characters in the MCU who are parents and Wanda actually raising her teenage sons would be something new and unique for the character.

    Unfortunately there are still way too many ways the ending could go wrong even if it doesn't make Wanda the villain (which even the show itself has admitted is unlikely) so I'm not getting my hopes up too high.



    It's not a great comic, no, but Coipel's issues have some of the most incredible art of Wanda, his first chance after House of M to draw Wanda as a hero in her Avengers costume and all. Few artists have ever made her look so beautiful and powerful.

    While it wasn't great, it was probably a better event for Wanda fans than pretty much anything else in the last decade. She got to reconnect with her friends like Carol, she was written neither as a jerk nor cringingly apologetic about what she'd done... dumb event, but good for the character.
    Keep in mind that for the longest time, audience members were told that Steve had to move on from Peggy and there was no chance of them ever having a life together. But come Endgame, and then they did get their happy ending. So I believe that even if now Wanda is forced to accept Vision's death, she will be rewarded with him some time later down the line, perhaps when they are ready to close off Wanda's story in the MCU. I don't feel like audience members will be willing to accept an unhappy ending for Wanda and Vision especially when death seems to be the only obstacle and Wanda already has the power to cheat death (and plenty of other Marvel characters have done so as well).

    AvX is awful but Wanda has some great moments in there, especially the art like you said. It did bring Wanda back to a prominent role in the comics and set her up as a leading member of Uncanny Avengers, which was Marvel's flagship title at the time.

  9. #1464
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I never really read much of Strange in the comics but I really like the Cumberbatch version so I'm excited to see him and Wanda meet. Has Olsen said anything about missing her castmates? Yeah the situation with ATJ is weird and I'd be okay with him being permanently recast like War Machine with Don Cheadle or Hulk with Mark Ruffalo if that's what it takes to bring him back. I can't imagine ATJ not wanting to come back though so it seems more like Marvel isn't interested in using him. Or maybe they only will bring him back once the X-Men and Magneto are included? I love Natalie Portman but her Jane never interested me, especially the relationship with Thor. I don't feel like the romance with Thor will take up too much time in the movie though.
    We don't know if Marvel isn't interested on ATJ anymore, the reason Evan Peters was cast is very obvious. I really think quicksilver will remain dead

  10. #1465
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I never really read much of Strange in the comics but I really like the Cumberbatch version so I'm excited to see him and Wanda meet. Has Olsen said anything about missing her castmates? Yeah the situation with ATJ is weird and I'd be okay with him being permanently recast like War Machine with Don Cheadle or Hulk with Mark Ruffalo if that's what it takes to bring him back. I can't imagine ATJ not wanting to come back though so it seems more like Marvel isn't interested in using him. Or maybe they only will bring him back once the X-Men and Magneto are included? I love Natalie Portman but her Jane never interested me, especially the relationship with Thor. I don't feel like the romance with Thor will take up too much time in the movie though.


    I don't really want to see the twins involved with the X-Men but I'd be okay with it if it brings Pietro back.

    I never read much of Steve's romance with Sharon in the comics although I figured they were endgame when Emily VanCamp was cast as Sharon in the movies. I think the problem was that fans were too invested in Steve/Peggy and the idea that Steve would move on with Peggy's descendant was too skeevy. I'm assuming though that the plan to reunite Steve and Peggy wasn't confirmed when Civil War came out otherwise Steve/Sharon there really seems like a bizarre choice. I'm glad though that Steve and Peggy were together because they're my favorite MCU romance after Wanda and Vision and I know Emily VanCamp's Sharon will continue on without Steve which might be for the better.
    I'm excited about Doctor Strange 2 as well. More than I thought I would be. And that's largely because of Cumberbatch. I think he plays a cool Stephen. I know Raimi loves Doctor Strange, so he'll treat him right. But I want him to avoid the cringey dialogue that plagued the earlier Spider-Man movies. Key examples:

    "It's you who's out Gobby! Out of your mind!"

    "Spider-Man. This is why only fools are heroes - because you never know when some lunatic will come along with a sadistic choice. Let die the woman you love... or suffer the little children. Make your choice, Spider-Man, and see how a hero is rewarded."

    "You don't understand! I'm not an empty seat anymore! I'm different! Punch me, I bleed!"

    I have no evidence to suggest Olsen is unhappy. It's just in interviews she seemed more excited when she was talking about WandaVision. She was positively GUSHING when talking about working with Bettany and Hahn in particular. I don't think Marvel Studios is interested in bringing ATJ back. I think they're done with the MCU's Quicksilver. Maybe he'll show up in a flashback in a future episode of WandaVision, but with Peters' there, I don't see the point. And please, ditch the romance in Love and Thunder. I hate that shit.

  11. #1466
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Well the tv show is about grief, so death is part of it
    Yep. I agree.

  12. #1467
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post



    Line it is drawn
    Very nice find!

  13. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Quicksilver will probably remain dead. I see the Vision returning in his White form but done better. The twins will somehow stick around for any planned Young Avengers projects
    If they really want to put Wanda through the wringer, the twins will vanish with the resolution of WandaVision, and she'll be all alone again.

    And then, in some stinger, the twins will wake up in different households, sort of slotted into families that mysteriously 'remember' them always being part of their families, and with only vague memories that something is wrong... That would sort of set up the 616 backstory of how Billy becomes Billy Kaplan and Tommy becomes Tommy Shepherd.

    But that might be a darker place (even just *thinking* she's all alone again, and has lost everyone) than they want to take it...

  14. #1469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    If they really want to put Wanda through the wringer, the twins will vanish with the resolution of WandaVision, and she'll be all alone again.

    And then, in some stinger, the twins will wake up in different households, sort of slotted into families that mysteriously 'remember' them always being part of their families, and with only vague memories that something is wrong... That would sort of set up the 616 backstory of how Billy becomes Billy Kaplan and Tommy becomes Tommy Shepherd.

    But that might be a darker place (even just *thinking* she's all alone again, and has lost everyone) than they want to take it...
    I hope they don't do that. Because what happened in comics became very weird and complicated for their relationship. To the point where they never interact. It's not necessary. Wanda's already been put through the wringer with her parents, her brother and Vision dying.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  15. #1470
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I hope they don't do that. Because what happened in comics became very weird and complicated for their relationship. To the point where they never interact. It's not necessary. Wanda's already been put through the wringer with her parents, her brother and Vision dying.
    I don't think they will. Wanda's gotta get SOMETHING positive out of this series. I don't see the kids not coming back before the show is concluded. I think the showrunners want to make sure Vision knows his boys are okay before he "dies" again. So he can rest in peace. And I'm also anxious that Wanda and Vision reconcile soon. There's not much time left for the two of them to be together. The other stuff in the show means less to me now. Monica, Jimmy, Darcy and Agatha (and possibly "Pietro", Hayward, Billy and Tommy) will almost certainly live on after WandaVision concludes. I think this is Vision's swan song. I want the show to focus on Wanda's and Vision's relationship now as opposed to other things at this point.

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