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  1. #421
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    I know, right?! But don't forget Ben giving the glare to Namor!

    Yeah, right? Ben loves his fights with Namor and hatin' on him.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  2. #422
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about those panels. While I'm always up for Namor rejecting the X-men in whatever form they may be in at the time, I'm not sure about the weird world domination fetish. Namor has never seemed to be one to dream dreams of world power or a need to be admired.

    Also, am I missing something with the cheese bit? No idea if that was a joke or a reference to something.
    I'm not sure, I didn't get it either.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  3. #423
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Upon a second reading I spied a Namor! It does seem like he changed his outfit for the Hellfire Gala but I can't make out alot since it was in a group shot but I am hoping we get some good art of this! Here he is standing just behind Ororo with his back turned, the gold scales and green cloth def fit a Namor vibe! You can see his pointy ear too XD (I'm sure this is not Northstar because he already has a black outfit)



    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  4. #424
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Wow. Dragotta still draws him so DRAMATIC. Of course his style has evolved since then.

    And of course he's concerned about Sue. He understands she is going through hell. I do love that triangle of stares. Namor staring at Sue, who is staring at Reed, who is making small talk with Cyke and Emma.





    You are loving that page, aren't you?
    Caught! I actually don't remember this from Johnny's death. Was it a small sequence/part of the book?

    At any rate, of course everyone else thinks/would think it's creepy.
    And we know that Ben too can be overprotective of Sue or Alicia, or some women in general.
    Now, that is sexist too, of course.
    Sue has no true agency if someone else has to tell her not to play with water, or she might get .... well not burned, so

    wet.
    Sue/Namor exists on a different level of love. Certainly it is more physical based for Namor, but it is more like him seeing the best of his human side/potential

    through her. Sue is air-breathers essence or essential quality, as one. As a proxy or surrogate. He may always see her that way, even if he finds the love he should find.

    Now why it has to be her seems to bother some people, but I find it quite

    magical. That's what I'm about.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  5. #425
    Extraordinary Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yeah, right? Ben loves his fights with Namor and hatin' on him.
    That they do, Phoenixx9!


  6. #426
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    And of course he's concerned about Sue. He understands she is going through hell.
    Given his long, storied history with the FF it shouldn't be surprising he would turn up at their wakes and funerals; but not everyone is pleased. From FF #400 this time, when Reed was thought dead at the time.





    Ah, the age of mullets! Only Namor had the style to tie it as a ponytail.
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  7. #427
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    I know, right?! But don't forget Ben giving the glare to Namor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yeah, right? Ben loves his fights with Namor and hatin' on him.

    Well, that's definitely true. Ben likes nothing better than a brawl with "ol' fish face." ;p

    But wasn't Ben blaming himself for Johnny's death, or something like that? He definitely took his "death" the hardest, IIRC.
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  8. #428
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Well, that's definitely true. Ben likes nothing better than a brawl with "ol' fish face." ;p

    But wasn't Ben blaming himself for Johnny's death, or something like that? He definitely took his "death" the hardest, IIRC.
    Maybe....but that look on Ben's face is from looking up and seeing Namor staring at Sue (or so it appeared).
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #429
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Upon a second reading I spied a Namor! It does seem like he changed his outfit for the Hellfire Gala but I can't make out alot since it was in a group shot but I am hoping we get some good art of this! Here he is standing just behind Ororo with his back turned, the gold scales and green cloth def fit a Namor vibe! You can see his pointy ear too XD (I'm sure this is not Northstar because he already has a black outfit)

    Hmmm. I don't know if that's Namor. Or if it is, it is someone that doesn't know Namor. I mean why would Namor even look at a guy who came to the gala in a baseball hat and hoodie, when he could be talking to Storm and Jean Grey???
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  10. #430
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Given his long, storied history with the FF it shouldn't be surprising he would turn up at their wakes and funerals; but not everyone is pleased. From FF #400 this time, when Reed was thought dead at the time.





    Ah, the age of mullets! Only Namor had the style to tie it as a ponytail.
    I never thought of it that way, but yes. At least Namor could still retain his original hair style, from the front.

    Ant Man is harsh ... and ignorant, or he'd know that Namor has been providing Sue a broad shoulder to cry on since their first meeting. ;p

    What kills me about this scene is that almost everyone is in costume, except Namor! Well, Nick Fury and Tony Stark too ...
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  11. #431
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    I thought it was next issue, but it appears that Namor's cameo in FF is today. At least he's drawn pretty here. Not sure this is exactly how things would have fallen out, as we are long overdue for a SVTU!





    SPOILERS in the article.

    https://www.cbr.com/fantasic-four-na...-doom-wedding/
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  12. #432
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    More spoilers:
    spoilers:
    After Zora confesses to Doom that she slept with Johnny just before she was to say "I do," Doom in his rage orders his troops to execute ALL the guests. And Namor laughed out loud (before Doom raged).
    end of spoilers
    Human Torch/Fantastic Four/She-Hulk/Disney Big Hero 6 /Tangled/G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero/Transformers G1 fanatic, Avatar-maker, and Marvel Moderator
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  13. #433
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    More spoilers:
    spoilers:
    After Zora confesses to Doom that she slept with Johnny just before she was to say "I do," Doom in his rage orders his troops to execute ALL the guests. And Namor laughed out loud (before Doom raged).
    end of spoilers

    I'm sure Namor had the winning bet on how long Doom would last spoilers:
    playing nice.
    end of spoilers LOL!
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  14. #434
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Caught! I actually don't remember this from Johnny's death. Was it a small sequence/part of the book?
    IIRC, it was from the last issue of Fantastic Four, before it got renumbered / replaced by Future Foundation? The whole book was dealing with various characters' reactions to Johnny's 'death.'


    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    At any rate, of course everyone else thinks/would think it's creepy.
    And we know that Ben too can be overprotective of Sue or Alicia, or some women in general.
    Now, that is sexist too, of course.
    Sue has no true agency if someone else has to tell her not to play with water, or she might get .... well not burned, so

    wet.
    Sue/Namor exists on a different level of love. Certainly it is more physical based for Namor, but it is more like him seeing the best of his human side/potential

    through her. Sue is air-breathers essence or essential quality, as one. As a proxy or surrogate. He may always see her that way, even if he finds the love he should find.

    Now why it has to be her seems to bother some people, but I find it quite

    magical. That's what I'm about.

    I think I've said this before, so forgive me for repeating myself, but I've always seen Namor and Sue's first meeting as a Hades and Persephone tale, which is why I think it resonates for many people. It IS magic / myth. If you look at it literally, instead of what it symbolizes, it can be problematic, especially for modern audiences. And as you point out, Sue represents the element of air (Ben is earth, Johnny is flame and interesting enough, Reed is water), so in the beginning she probably did represent that half of his heritage. Of course, I prefer to think of Betty Dean as the true representative of his air breather heritage, but that's my own personal bias. ;p Betty also works better for me because she didn't reject Namor, like Sue did.

    The problem is, of course, literally, the characters changed / grew older. With her choice of Reed, Sue, despite being the air element, becomes more like Hestia, an earth element. I'm not sure they have a mythological story any more. Namor, the way he has been written, will always care for the women in his life, including Sue. He's also always going to be open to rekindling the sexual relationship, not only because he's been written that way, but because he represents the id and passion. But I do not see him pining away for Sue as some modern writers insist. I also wish writers would show more of their _friendship_ instead of portraying their relationship as one of pursuit and using.
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  15. #435
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    IIRC, it was from the last issue of Fantastic Four, before it got renumbered / replaced by Future Foundation? The whole book was dealing with various characters' reactions to Johnny's 'death.'





    I think I've said this before, so forgive me for repeating myself, but I've always seen Namor and Sue's first meeting as a Hades and Persephone tale, which is why I think it resonates for many people. It IS magic / myth. If you look at it literally, instead of what it symbolizes, it can be problematic, especially for modern audiences. And as you point out, Sue represents the element of air (Ben is earth, Johnny is flame and interesting enough, Reed is water), so in the beginning she probably did represent that half of his heritage. Of course, I prefer to think of Betty Dean as the true representative of his air breather heritage, but that's my own personal bias. ;p Betty also works better for me because she didn't reject Namor, like Sue did.

    The problem is, of course, literally, the characters changed / grew older. With her choice of Reed, Sue, despite being the air element, becomes more like Hestia, an earth element. I'm not sure they have a mythological story any more. Namor, the way he has been written, will always care for the women in his life, including Sue. He's also always going to be open to rekindling the sexual relationship, not only because he's been written that way, but because he represents the id and passion. But I do not see him pining away for Sue as some modern writers insist. I also wish writers would show more of their _friendship_ instead of portraying their relationship as one of pursuit and using.
    Thank you my friend for writing this, especially in response to my own meandering.

    The sue/namor thing is not so much complex as it is symbolic. Once you can accept that and see that value, it makes so much sense.

    Sue and Namor never have to step into each other's bed chambers, for this sort of love. More altruistic and 'servicing' to the world of human meets 'other'.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

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