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  1. #886
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Part of the reason why Namor doesn't sell is there is no promotion. You could have argued that ten years ago for Iron Man or Captain america, etc. You need something to push the character out there.

    You know what, do a good solid graphic novel for teens/middle grade readers, and i bet you will get an uptick in desire to see more Namor content. I put some blame on Universal too because we don't know all the contracts he's wrapped up in.
    This 100%, without Marvel promoting Namor then of course they won't be able to rebuild his fanbase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Gorgeous Jae Lee commission -- an homage to John Buscema's #1 cover.


    sorry rev I cant seem to see the art?
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  2. #887
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Hmmm. I don't remember the Ghostrider book ... must have been a one-shot, as I don't think there's a book or mini out now? Doom was also on the cover of the new Kang, but I haven't picked that up yet. I liked the previous issues, though, so I'm hopeful..
    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    And Slott's wedding debacle didn't really have them talking to each other. It was like Slott completely forgot their longing standing relationship, strange as it is. And I think that's true for most of Marvel editorial and modern writers also -- most who don't seem to have read an actual Namor book at all. I don't think we see them together that often, because Marvel just isn't that interested in Namor. Doom has plenty of creators interested in writing him, because he is the premiere villain of the MU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Hickman only used Namor for the Old Kings of Atlantis arc -- which was broken up into several issues. Altogether I doubt it would have been more an issue. After that, he showed up in a cameo once or twice. I don't think he was on Fraction's run at all. Robinson had Namor show up a couple of times, but nothing major, and mostly to moon over Sue. sigh. The Doom wedding was the first time I think we saw Namor in Slott's run -- which is probably a good thing.

    I agree, the best Doom and Namor stuff happens in Namor book. I may be biased, though. ;p And outside of that, we just aren't going to see that good of a showing for them. With Marvel's penchant for mini-series, however, NOW would be a great time to have a Super Villian Team Up mini with them. Of course, Editorial would have to get onboard for that.
    At this point, I'd be thrilled to have someone remember Silver Age Namor. So very tired of the nonsense we see in Aaron's run.
    I was hoping that the Doom solo would have lasted longer. It was promoted as a solo and then things changed during the pandemic. First of all, it didn't come back right away, not until September IIRC. Cantwell had already written the conclusion with the Antlion story and had the next arc planned that would be inspired by the Amadeus movie. Doom has a stroke and while he is somewhat incapacitated and recovering,he hires a composer to write an opera about the glorious history of Latveria, which is to say it will be about him.

    I really think Marvel is overdue in putting together a mini that revisits SVTU featuring them. Maybe if Namor is going to be appearing in the MCU that would be a good time for it because at some point they have to introduce Doom also. It's just not clear when.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Did Ewing have to rush the ending for GotG?
    That's what I picked up anyway from reading the GOTG appreciation thread. The output of the comic was getting spotty. I think sometime before Doom started appearing, the title skipped a month without explanation. Then when it didn't appear in the advance solicitations for October onward they knew this run was over. The last arc features Dormammu as the big bad but the ending read like it was very rushed IMO. Dormammu was practically wallpaper.

    But with the third movie on the MCU docket you can bet there will be a GOTG relaunch, probably with a new creative team.

  3. #888
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    They snapped up Cantwell for that Iron Man ongoing and I'm still mad about that to be honest, I would have died to see the second year of a Doom series. I just wish Marvel had more faith and gave more time for characters like Namor and Doom who are very morally grey to have their own books or a team up.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  4. #889
    Mighty Member kevlon's Avatar
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    Did I read correctly that there are only just over 11,000 Atlanteans? Is that right?

    I would have assumed for an underwater race that have been around for a very long time that they'd be mullions of them.

    And if there are 11,000 Atlanteans are they all in 1 city so the rest of the ocean is an Atlantean free zone?

  5. #890
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevlon View Post
    And if there are 11,000 Atlanteans are they all in 1 city so the rest of the ocean is an Atlantean free zone?
    Seriously how would Namor enforce his rule over all the oceans? It's the one thing that's always on my mind about Namor's claim to rule 70% of the Earth.
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  6. #891
    Mighty Member kevlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Seriously how would Namor enforce his rule over all the oceans? It's the one thing that's always on my mind about Namor's claim to rule 70% of the Earth.
    Yeah I agree. And the claim of 70% of the earth which is only 11k-12k people? Unless of course he counts he fish as his subjects?

  7. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevlon View Post
    Did I read correctly that there are only just over 11,000 Atlanteans? Is that right?

    I would have assumed for an underwater race that have been around for a very long time that they'd be mullions of them.
    I'm sure there used to be more of them--but there have been numerous disasters to befall Atlantis in several Marvel stories over the decades, so it is safe to assume that their population has declined drastically in the multiple mass casualty events.

  8. #893
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevlon View Post
    Did I read correctly that there are only just over 11,000 Atlanteans? Is that right?

    I would have assumed for an underwater race that have been around for a very long time that they'd be mullions of them.

    And if there are 11,000 Atlanteans are they all in 1 city so the rest of the ocean is an Atlantean free zone?
    As I said before, I don't think Aaron knows anything about Namor or Atlantis and simply pulled the number out of his ... nether parts without thinking about it. He does say Atlanteans, not Homo Mermanus, so perhaps he's only talking about people living in that city. Though, again, that's a ridiculously small number -- smaller than most rural county seats in the US. That's like 1/10th of a football stadium. The ancient Roman Colosseum could hold 50,000, so those pages are drawn all wrong. Most of the seats would be empty if that was the population of Atlantis.

    Off the top of my head, besides Atlantis, there is Oceanus, several colonies, a few outposts, a few hidden cities, some nomads, a few enemy enclaves (like Attuma's barbarians), and some places that may or may not be abandoned like Maritanis, Deluvia, etc. And of course, there's Lemuria. All of these count as populated by homo meranus, and they certainly make up more than 2% of the population. Unless, of course, they were never recreated after Secret Wars -- something I doubt, considering how ticked off Namor would be about that.

    Although, given that the ONLY plotline most modern writers have for Atlantis and Namor is to destroy Atlantis, I imagine the surface world is doing an excellent job on eradicating Atlanteans.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Seriously how would Namor enforce his rule over all the oceans? It's the one thing that's always on my mind about Namor's claim to rule 70% of the Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by kevlon View Post
    Yeah I agree. And the claim of 70% of the earth which is only 11k-12k people? Unless of course he counts he fish as his subjects?
    There's plenty of areas on land that rulers and governments claim to rule that aren't populated. And lets not forget the coastal waters that countries claim. The issue I have with Namor's claim is that Lemuria probably has something to say about that percentage. ;p Of course, I don't think Lemuria has a functioning government right now, so I guess Namor's claim is uncontested. ;p

    There's also this page from Matt Fraction's Defenders #5 which tries to explain how things work in Atlantis. Though not quite, as is later shown in this issue.






    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    I'm sure there used to be more of them--but there have been numerous disasters to befall Atlantis in several Marvel stories over the decades, so it is safe to assume that their population has declined drastically in the multiple mass casualty events.
    Agreed, but not to that small number, I would think.
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  9. #894
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Aaron 100% knows nothing of Namor's character nor Sub-Mariner Lore and it's very evident in his writing, I would say to ignore everything coming out from this Avengers run in it's entirety. Putting a limit on Atlanteans is stupid and does nothing except show that he wantd to put a body count that She-Hulk would be saving. Besides as Rev said there are multiple cities, outposts, villages, people of the sea, not just Atlanteans, there are Lemurians, Chasm Folk, Trench People, Sirenas, not to mention the monsters and mermaids and faceless ones.

    Aaron has done everything in his power to turn Namor into a tool to be used for his plots with no consideration for the character while also killing off every bit of good characterization he could. I cannot wait until Namor is out of his hands and I never have to read about "Namor liking killing sharks and lying to his mother and never crying and being power hungry" again.

    I would say the only thing left is NamorSue drama but I just remembered that awful panel where Reed has to question Sue's loyalty for calling Namor in to help during the King in Black event but that was written by Cates.

    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #895
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    While there could be some areas where its an undersea "desert" as in not enough food to populate the area, as in real life, does it really make any sense for a fantasy character? They have literally shown they can make their own coral reefs, they know how the sea works and how to survive in it. So this whole, "there is a limited population of Atlanteans" still makes no sense. Once again perhaps Atlanteans have low birth rates, they live a long time, and of course destruction would have killed off a lot of the people but in any case does it matter when the next writer is just gonna come along and use Namor's people as a disposable army even though at this point, with the amount of fighting that they were in engaged in, there wouldn't be any fighting men and women left.

    This explanation is as simple and effective as one could hope for a sea king, Namor doesn't need to control all of his people, he is there to dispense justice and uphold royal law and the people's law. He is a protector not a tyrant. I wish people would stop trying to line up Atlanteans and Namor's mortality with surface people, the sea is a very harsh place to live and it requires different rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    There's also this page from Matt Fraction's Defenders #5 which tries to explain how things work in Atlantis. Though not quite, as is later shown in this issue.


    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  11. #896
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Dear snobs, don't try to figure out my avatar.

    Sorry, I am agnostic. And your presumptions makes you something.

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  12. #897
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  13. #898
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    more tweets



    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  14. #899
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    People still think Grace Randolph is a reliable source in 2021?
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  15. #900
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Good lord. Yeah, that totally sounds like Namor. NOT.




    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    People still think Grace Randolph is a reliable source in 2021?
    I don't think any of these click bait 'scoopers' are reliable.

    Remember how Namor was definitely, 1000% sure to be in Eternals?
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