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  1. #871
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    As someone who has always enjoyed Ka-Zar and the Savage Land, I can tell you that the new mini-series is trash and it would have been better to leave Ka-Zar languishing on the backburner then have him show up with Shanna having utterly tiresome "Earth-Goddess" powers again, his son having some sort of ridiculous flower power, and Ka-Zar having a somewhat sentient loincloth that can change shape and act offensively, as it it were some sort of knock-off Venom symbiote. All this plus Ka-Zar and Shanna are now vegan and lecture their son about it while sitting in their tree house kitchen that is fully furnished with modern appliances. Trust me, I'd much rather Ka-Zar did not have a book out.




    I am ... stunned. It all sounds so bad, it is hard to pick which is worse. But ... sentient, offensive weapon, Venom like loin cloth. ROFLMAO!!! I thought Phoenix Zabu was the bottom of the barrel. LOL!




    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    At least Namor had a fun sleeper mini with the King In Black book. He also had 3 Omnibuses released relatively recently.

    The Savage Land has a much closer connection to Atlantis than it does Wakanda, considering the peoples of the Savage Land (excluding the prehistoric Neanderthal and Ape-like peoples) are all descendants of Pre-Cataclysm Atlantis. Wakanda and T'Challa have little more than political self interest when it comes to the Savage Land because of the vibranium. Which essentially makes them just like every other outside power, though I would not accuse T'Challa of trying to exploit the Savage Land, he just wants to ensure Wakanda is really the only Vibranium powered state on earth. Namor on the other hand, should have interest in the Savage Land as literally an extension of his Kingdom and it's peoples as his people. You have a giant international story arc right there.
    Interesting. I obviously need to read more on the early Savage Land history, as I'm only vaguely aware of a connection. Of course, the Old Kings of Atlantis Hickman introduced are in the Antarctic also ... which makes for another connection. While that does sound like an intriguing story, I have zero confidence in Marvel doing right by Namor in it.

    Well, it's been two years since the Bryne omnibus, though maybe we got the last Everett Timely Omin last year. It just seems like forever ago.
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  2. #872
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post


    I am ... stunned. It all sounds so bad, it is hard to pick which is worse. But ... sentient, offensive weapon, Venom like loin cloth. ROFLMAO!!! I thought Phoenix Zabu was the bottom of the barrel. LOL!
    Yeah... It's like dinosaur skin with claws and horns, and has like a club tail which can swing and/or act on it's own.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Interesting. I obviously need to read more on the early Savage Land history, as I'm only vaguely aware of a connection. Of course, the Old Kings of Atlantis Hickman introduced are in the Antarctic also ... which makes for another connection. While that does sound like an intriguing story, I have zero confidence in Marvel doing right by Namor in it.

    Well, it's been two years since the Bryne omnibus, though maybe we got the last Everett Timely Omin last year. It just seems like forever ago.
    The Bruce Jones/Brent Anderson Ka-Zar run in the 80's is the book expands the Savage Land and it's history, including referencing Atlantean colonists with a handful of Kingdoms which have continued to modern day.

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Yeah... It's like dinosaur skin with claws and horns, and has like a club tail which can swing and/or act on it's own.
    That is just so wrong. WRONG.




    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    The Bruce Jones/Brent Anderson Ka-Zar run in the 80's is the book expands the Savage Land and it's history, including referencing Atlantean colonists with a handful of Kingdoms which have continued to modern day.
    I think that's the Ka-zar omni that is on sale now at IST for like $38. At that price, I can pick it up. Alot of what I remember of the Savage Land comes from the Astonishing Tales run and the classic X-Men run with Barry Windsor Smith art.
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  4. #874
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    Bleeding Cool is giving some details about today's Avengers train wreck.

    So, apparently not only Wakanda, but Russia, some how has spies in Atlantis. I really wish some of these writers would go diving so they can understand what human beings can do underwater and at what depths.




    And oh, look. Someone has forgotten that Atlanteans are immune to radiation. And really? If Atlantis only has 12,000 people, then the surface dwellers have really made progress in their genocide of the Atlanteans.

    Last edited by Reviresco; 10-13-2021 at 08:16 AM.
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  5. #875
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Ugh yeah, I posted about the issue here with all the Namor appearances, and honestly save your money, its not worth it. spoilers:
    Namor is made to look weaker and lose against She-Hulk UNDERWATER and the Avengers were playing a long game about taking down the Winter Guard who wanted to destroy the Atlanteans for some reason, I don't care enough to get the other issues to see why they hate the Atlanteans, and then She-Hulk is like "Evacuate your people" after she beat up Namor, like why couldn't she just talk to him? Or T'Challa talk King to King since he knew? Or literally anyone? It's beyond stupid and Aaron is the worst Namor writer in recent years.
    end of spoilers I really hope this means the end of Namor appearing in Avengers comics.
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  6. #876
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    These posts has me worried about next month's issue of the Avengers. It has a cover featuring Doom or maybe I should say a Doom with part Unthinkable skin armor (ugh). Plus the fact that is will another $9.99 comic like the Fantastic Four had because had they kept the legacy numbering it will be Avengers #750. The price tag and being written by Aaron is probably enough to steer me away until it shows up on Marvel Unlimited. I haven't been reading Aaron's Avengers and dropped it a while back. Does anyone know just why would Doom be showing up? The Previews entry just says that the "secret of the Iron Inquisitor" will be revealed. Yeah, by that cover This will probably be as disappointing and pointless as the Juggernaut Doom.


  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    These posts has me worried about next month's issue of the Avengers. It has a cover featuring Doom or maybe I should say a Doom with part Unthinkable skin armor (ugh). Plus the fact that is will another $9.99 comic like the Fantastic Four had because had they kept the legacy numbering it will be Avengers #750. The price tag and being written by Aaron is probably enough to steer me away until it shows up on Marvel Unlimited. I haven't been reading Aaron's Avengers and dropped it a while back. Does anyone know just why would Doom be showing up? The Previews entry just says that the "secret of the Iron Inquisitor" will be revealed. Yeah, by that cover This will probably be as disappointing and pointless as the Juggernaut Doom.

    That isn't 616 Doom. It's the Doom that was in the FCBD Avengers, from the Multiverse Masters of Evil?

    https://www.cbr.com/avengers-masters...iverse-threat/


    I honestly can't recommend anyone spend a dime on Aaron's Avengers.
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  8. #878
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    That isn't 616 Doom. It's the Doom that was in the FCBD Avengers, from the Multiverse Masters of Evil?

    https://www.cbr.com/avengers-masters...iverse-threat/


    I honestly can't recommend anyone spend a dime on Aaron's Avengers.
    Thanks...I have mostly skipped the FCBD stuff lately. I'm not surprised it wasn't 616 Doom. There's be way too many popping up recently. I prefer quality over quantity. I just saw a CBR article that says he was in the Ghost Rider comic too.

    Why do you think it is that aside form Slott's FF wedding issue debacle we hardly ever see Namor and Doom at least in the same room? It has never been clear to me who remembers what from the period of time that Battleworld existed.

  9. #879
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    I personally think that there isn't anyone at the Marvel Offices who are a fan of Namor and Doom at the same time and have the power to write them both into a comic. Namor himself has had less and less to do with the FF since Hickman? I believe was the last time we saw him for any length of time with that team.

    Doom was a guest character in 3 of Namor's solo's since the Silver Age, however no Namor solo, less of a chance of Doom & Namor team up. I just feel Marvel has been throwing Doom and Namor into other team books, Avengers etc. for no reason other than to have them be antagonistic even thought both characters have had so much growth over the decades.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #880
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I personally think that there isn't anyone at the Marvel Offices who are a fan of Namor and Doom at the same time and have the power to write them both into a comic. Namor himself has had less and less to do with the FF since Hickman? I believe was the last time we saw him for any length of time with that team.

    Doom was a guest character in 3 of Namor's solo's since the Silver Age, however no Namor solo, less of a chance of Doom & Namor team up. I just feel Marvel has been throwing Doom and Namor into other team books, Avengers etc. for no reason other than to have them be antagonistic even thought both characters have had so much growth over the decades.
    The problem is many times when Namor and Doom do have writers trying a different less cliched take with the character, another will come along and ignore or reverse it. I have found Al Ewing to be very reliable and doesn't go back to silver age versions of the character. I was disappointed when it appeared that he had to rush the ending of his Guardians of the Galaxy arc involving Dormammu who hardly even appeared! He really didn't have Victor meet up with his almost step son Billy.

  11. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Thanks...I have mostly skipped the FCBD stuff lately. I'm not surprised it wasn't 616 Doom. There's be way too many popping up recently. I prefer quality over quantity. I just saw a CBR article that says he was in the Ghost Rider comic too.

    Why do you think it is that aside form Slott's FF wedding issue debacle we hardly ever see Namor and Doom at least in the same room? It has never been clear to me who remembers what from the period of time that Battleworld existed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I personally think that there isn't anyone at the Marvel Offices who are a fan of Namor and Doom at the same time and have the power to write them both into a comic. Namor himself has had less and less to do with the FF since Hickman? I believe was the last time we saw him for any length of time with that team.

    Doom was a guest character in 3 of Namor's solo's since the Silver Age, however no Namor solo, less of a chance of Doom & Namor team up. I just feel Marvel has been throwing Doom and Namor into other team books, Avengers etc. for no reason other than to have them be antagonistic even thought both characters have had so much growth over the decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    The problem is many times when Namor and Doom do have writers trying a different less cliched take with the character, another will come along and ignore or reverse it. I have found Al Ewing to be very reliable and doesn't go back to silver age versions of the character. I was disappointed when it appeared that he had to rush the ending of his Guardians of the Galaxy arc involving Dormammu who hardly even appeared! He really didn't have Victor meet up with his almost step son Billy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Thanks...I have mostly skipped the FCBD stuff lately. I'm not surprised it wasn't 616 Doom. There's be way too many popping up recently. I prefer quality over quantity. I just saw a CBR article that says he was in the Ghost Rider comic too.

    Why do you think it is that aside form Slott's FF wedding issue debacle we hardly ever see Namor and Doom at least in the same room? It has never been clear to me who remembers what from the period of time that Battleworld existed.
    Yes, with the pandemic, I try to avoid as much shopping as possible, much less the crowds of FCBD. Though ... I'm sure it wasn't as crowded as it has been. My LCBS usually has extra copies I can pick up when I go later in the week. Plus, it's online now too, I believe, at both Comixology and Marvel Unlimited.

    Hmmm. I don't remember the Ghostrider book ... must have been a one-shot, as I don't think there's a book or mini out now? Doom was also on the cover of the new Kang, but I haven't picked that up yet. I liked the previous issues, though, so I'm hopeful.

    And Slott's wedding debacle didn't really have them talking to each other. It was like Slott completely forgot their longing standing relationship, strange as it is. And I think that's true for most of Marvel editorial and modern writers also -- most who don't seem to have read an actual Namor book at all. I don't think we see them together that often, because Marvel just isn't that interested in Namor. Doom has plenty of creators interested in writing him, because he is the premiere villain of the MU.





    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I personally think that there isn't anyone at the Marvel Offices who are a fan of Namor and Doom at the same time and have the power to write them both into a comic. Namor himself has had less and less to do with the FF since Hickman? I believe was the last time we saw him for any length of time with that team.

    Doom was a guest character in 3 of Namor's solo's since the Silver Age, however no Namor solo, less of a chance of Doom & Namor team up. I just feel Marvel has been throwing Doom and Namor into other team books, Avengers etc. for no reason other than to have them be antagonistic even thought both characters have had so much growth over the decades.
    Hickman only used Namor for the Old Kings of Atlantis arc -- which was broken up into several issues. Altogether I doubt it would have been more an issue. After that, he showed up in a cameo once or twice. I don't think he was on Fraction's run at all. Robinson had Namor show up a couple of times, but nothing major, and mostly to moon over Sue. sigh. The Doom wedding was the first time I think we saw Namor in Slott's run -- which is probably a good thing.

    I agree, the best Doom and Namor stuff happens in Namor book. I may be biased, though. ;p And outside of that, we just aren't going to see that good of a showing for them. With Marvel's penchant for mini-series, however, NOW would be a great time to have a Super Villian Team Up mini with them. Of course, Editorial would have to get onboard for that.




    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    The problem is many times when Namor and Doom do have writers trying a different less cliched take with the character, another will come along and ignore or reverse it. I have found Al Ewing to be very reliable and doesn't go back to silver age versions of the character. I was disappointed when it appeared that he had to rush the ending of his Guardians of the Galaxy arc involving Dormammu who hardly even appeared! He really didn't have Victor meet up with his almost step son Billy.
    At this point, I'd be thrilled to have someone remember Silver Age Namor. So very tired of the nonsense we see in Aaron's run.

    Did Ewing have to rush the ending for GotG?
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  12. #882
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I personally think that there isn't anyone at the Marvel Offices who are a fan of Namor and Doom at the same time and have the power to write them both into a comic. Namor himself has had less and less to do with the FF since Hickman? I believe was the last time we saw him for any length of time with that team.

    Doom was a guest character in 3 of Namor's solo's since the Silver Age, however no Namor solo, less of a chance of Doom & Namor team up. I just feel Marvel has been throwing Doom and Namor into other team books, Avengers etc. for no reason other than to have them be antagonistic even thought both characters have had so much growth over the decades.
    Those in the Marvel offices today are sure different from those who were in 40, 50, 60 years ago. Even if they did not love each character, there was a respect and continuity of character and personality that was much more evident than anything seen today. They did things for the characters, but for the fans as well. They had respect for the characters but also for the fans. When I pick up an old comic book, I can feel the love and respect coming off of it. Today's comics have a feel of greed and self-servingness to them. Not at all the same feel.
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  13. #883
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    As I've said about Hickman before, he is a very mixed bag when it comes to Namor, like his writing was very compelling in showing how Namor would deal with end of the world situations but I dislike the Old Kings of Atlantis plot simply because I get super annoyed by any other character trying to act like they have all the claim to the throne when they don't. His T'Challa and Namor rivalry is epic and I would enjoy it more if other writers just left it in Hickman's books. Like at this point they should be past all that and their time trying to kill each other should be over, but we still get stuff like in Aaron's Avengers. So it's soured me for any Black Panther future interactions. As a single arc and wrapped up it was fine, but the fact no one else will let it go *sighs*


    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Those in the Marvel offices today are sure different from those who were in 40, 50, 60 years ago. Even if they did not love each character, there was a respect and continuity of character and personality that was much more evident than anything seen today. They did things for the characters, but for the fans as well. They had respect for the characters but also for the fans. When I pick up an old comic book, I can feel the love and respect coming off of it. Today's comics have a feel of greed and self-servingness to them. Not at all the same feel.
    I feel this has more to do with the Powers That Be at Marvel, the Higher Ups have all the control over this, they could hire someone like Kurt Busiek to do quality checks, or other people who have vast knowledge of Marvel Characters. The creators are often tied by what they can and can't do, they are often given characters they don't know or understand and then fail at delivering a good story, they most often don't get to pick and choose what characters they will have access to. Not to mention each creator lives by the popularity of the issue, and Marvel far too often cancels and reboots to get that #1 issue money again, and Marvel cancels without warning so they have to scramble to finish their story arcs. Without writers and artists having security and the knowledge they wont be cut off tomorrow you get this very rushed feeling to the comics. But of course Marvel Editorial won't let them know how to plan for their story arcs due to this. I hate a lot of creators, such as Slott and Aaron, and I def think they should not be on comics because they are more concerned with leaving their legacy than actually writing good comics, but it's unfair to say all creators are like the bad ones. Marvel does not look out nor aid their creators in boosting sales either, so much could be fixed if we had a better Editorial team with a new EiC, I'm sorry but I hate Cebulski, aside from the fact he lied about being an Asian man and got away with it, he does not care about the legacy characters, look at the 80th Anniversary of Marvel? Literally all about the MCU. Chip Zdarsky even said they told him Namor doesn't sell, none of the Higher Ups actually care about promoting anything that isn't MCU or already popular, which is why comics these days on a whole feel they have no heart. Not saying all comics but you know when you read a great comic what a difference it is from a bad one.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  14. #884
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Part of the reason why Namor doesn't sell is there is no promotion. You could have argued that ten years ago for Iron Man or Captain america, etc. You need something to push the character out there.

    You know what, do a good solid graphic novel for teens/middle grade readers, and i bet you will get an uptick in desire to see more Namor content. I put some blame on Universal too because we don't know all the contracts he's wrapped up in.

  15. #885
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Gorgeous Jae Lee commission -- an homage to John Buscema's #1 cover.


    Last edited by Reviresco; 10-16-2021 at 12:59 AM.
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