IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2021

[Doom'nGloom]

I recently read Sub-mariner The Depths and damn it's amazing. I love how Namor is depicted as a silent protector and an urban legend/myth. Though at certain points of the story as someone with claustrophobia I felt really uneasy. Still it's one of the best stories on the character I've read.

[Reviresco]

I recently read Sub-mariner The Depths and damn it's amazing. I love how Namor is depicted as a silent protector and an urban legend/myth. Though at certain points of the story as someone with claustrophobia I felt really uneasy. Still it's one of the best stories on the character I've read.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. The Depths is a great story. I'm hard pressed to think of another comic that so perfectly captures the suspense and horror of the situation and the underwater environment. It also captures the underpinnings of a mythical ocean creature such as Namor. That said, I was quite disappointed at how few pages actually have this AU Namor in it. Yes, he's a presence throughout, and a very effective one, but it really isn't his story.

I do recommend it to everyone, however, because the story and art are just wonderful.

[Doom'nGloom]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. The Depths is a great story. I'm hard pressed to think of another comic that so perfectly captures the suspense and horror of the situation and the underwater environment. It also captures the underpinnings of a mythical ocean creature such as Namor. That said, I was quite disappointed at how few pages actually have this AU Namor in it. Yes, he's a presence throughout, and a very effective one, but it really isn't his story.

I do recommend it to everyone, however, because the story and art are just wonderful.

Yeah that part is disappointing. He's used pretty scarcely throughout the whole story and not as his usual boisterous self but I really liked this alternate take on the character. But yeah it definitely isn't his story but rather a great story featuring him.

[Reviresco]

Yeah that part is disappointing. He's used pretty scarcely throughout the whole story and not as his usual boisterous self but I really liked this alternate take on the character. But yeah it definitely isn't his story but rather a great story featuring him.

Yes, that's why I think of him as an Alternate Universe Namor, because he's clearly not the "Imperius Rex!" yelling character with a comment for every occasion that we know and love. ;p But, I think this version of Namor addresses some core elements of the character, that readers don't always see or realize. Namor and the Atlanteans aren't human, nor is their civilization. They have a foot in the Otherworld and the unknown deep darkness of horror where Cthulu resides. They should always have a touch of the siren and selkie. I'd love to see a modern run done by a good creative team that understands that and works it into an underwater dark fantasy and I think it could be successful.

[Doom'nGloom]

Yes, that's why I think of him as an Alternate Universe Namor, because he's clearly not the "Imperius Rex!" yelling character with a comment for every occasion that we know and love. ;p But, I think this version of Namor addresses some core elements of the character, that readers don't always see or realize. Namor and the Atlanteans aren't human, nor is their civilization. They have a foot in the Otherworld and the unknown deep darkness of horror where Cthulu resides. They should always have a touch of the siren and selkie. I'd love to see a modern run done by a good creative team that understands that and works it into an underwater dark fantasy and I think it could be successful.

Doesn't homo mermanus come from another planet? I remember Namor mentioning something about that in Invaders series by Zdarsky.

[Doom'nGloom]

Yep, found it.

05.jpg
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Is there a series that delves into Vodan and its history?

[Phoenixx9]

Doesn't homo mermanus come from another planet? I remember Namor mentioning something about that in Invaders series by Zdarsky.

Yep, found it.

05.jpg
18.jpg

Is there a series that delves into Vodan and its history?

Huh! I never heard that before! I always thought Homo Mermanus was like Homo Magi, a variant of earthly mortals.

[Reviresco]

Doesn't homo mermanus come from another planet? I remember Namor mentioning something about that in Invaders series by Zdarsky.

Yep, found it.

05.jpg
18.jpg

Is there a series that delves into Vodan and its history?

Huh! I never heard that before! I always thought Homo Mermanus was like Homo Magi, a variant of earthly mortals.

That's because this is an entirely new addition / creation to the Atlantean mythos by Zdarsky. And their connection is somewhat vague, despite Namor's statement on that page.

Best Defense: Namor by Zdarsky and Magno is the only book about the Vodani. Namor goes to that planet to seek an alliance with the Vodani - apparently his first plan, which got scrapped for the plan with the Invaders. In this book we get several different statements from various people as to how the two kingdoms and it's people are connected -- who is descended from who, etc.

And lets not even get into the complete craziness of how anything is living on Vodani, when it's been ripped from its orbit and its sun by Nebulon.

TBH, it reminds me a lot of the People of the Black Sea from Sub-Mariner #40.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/blackseadim.htm

[Reviresco]

Okay, what the heck is this?

[Doombot]

I have no idea what's up with that Panther panel, but it doesn't bode well.

The concept of the Atlanteans being alien is awful and I dismiss it outright.

[Ravin' Ray]

Hmm, I would love to dig into the details of the Vodani's history. Meantime…

https://www.comixology.com/Inhumans-...al-comic/43369



So in the 98-99 Inhumans series Triton seeks an audience with Namor as an emissary of the Inhumans and he mentions this:



Namor was actually feigning arrogance as requested by Black Bolt himself to keep up appearances until Attilan relocated under guise of being destroyed before the human forces could invade it, but have there actually been any on-panel meetings between Triton and Fen?

[Reviresco]

Hmm, I would love to dig into the details of the Vodani's history. Meantime…

https://www.comixology.com/Inhumans-...al-comic/43369



So in the 98-99 Inhumans series Triton seeks an audience with Namor as an emissary of the Inhumans and he mentions this:



Namor was actually feigning arrogance as requested by Black Bolt himself to keep up appearances until Attilan relocated under guise of being destroyed before the human forces could invade it, but have there actually been any on-panel meetings between Triton and Fen?

Yes! That as another great example of Namor's acting ability. He had Triton ... and everyone else going. Not to mention, another example of how Black Bolt and Namor work together -- the other being the time they saved Reed and Sue's marriage back in the 70s. Which makes Hickman's portrayal of BB's backstabbing Namor OOC.

I believe that is a retcon. Namor and Triton met for the first time in Sub-Mariner 2 and I don't think the Inhumans had had any contact with Atlantis before that. Also, that would make Triton a REALLY OLD guy, which I do not believe he has been portrayed as anywhere else.

[Reviresco]

Okay, what the heck is this?

I have no idea what's up with that Panther panel, but it doesn't bode well.

The concept of the Atlanteans being alien is awful and I dismiss it outright.

I tend to agree. I like the idea of the Vodani being an offshoot of the Atlanteans, like the Lemurians, which is how it was portrayed at first in Best Defense, who left the Atlanteans under not so good circumstances.

Okay, I discovered where that panel is from. It is from the Death of Doctor Strange Avengers #1. So, I'll have to take a closer look at it when I'm in the LCBS this week. It doesn't look right to me at all, and I wonder if the artist (or writer) got something wrong??

[Phoenixx9]

Yes! That as another great example of Namor's acting ability. He had Triton ... and everyone else going. Not to mention, another example of how Black Bolt and Namor work together -- the other being the time they saved Reed and Sue's marriage back in the 70s. Which makes Hickman's portrayal of BB's backstabbing Namor OOC.

I believe that is a retcon. Namor and Triton met for the first time in Sub-Mariner 2 and I don't think the Inhumans had had any contact with Atlantis before that. Also, that would make Triton a REALLY OLD guy, which I do not believe he has been portrayed as anywhere else.

Yes! I was thinking of that time too! Namor really acted well back then, fighting with the other 3 and Thundra! He even used his Horn of Prometheus and some sea monsters.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Someone remembered Atlantis exists in the Marvel Universe! It's actually going to have a section in this new DK book on Marvel Maps. I love this cover, even though I think the highlighted character choices in the circles are a bit odd. At least Namor does show up in silhouette ... next to Black Panther. sigh. I do like his aquatic panel though.

The one article page in the preview at DK, however ...

https://www.dk.com/us/book/978074403...se-map-by-map/


Yeah, I think there are some leaps made in the 'history' of Atlantis there.


https://res.cloudinary.com/dk-hub/im...5_spread_2.jpg

Doesn't homo mermanus come from another planet? I remember Namor mentioning something about that in Invaders series by Zdarsky.

Yep, found it.

Is there a series that delves into Vodan and its history?

That's because this is an entirely new addition / creation to the Atlantean mythos by Zdarsky. And their connection is somewhat vague, despite Namor's statement on that page.

Best Defense: Namor by Zdarsky and Magno is the only book about the Vodani. Namor goes to that planet to seek an alliance with the Vodani - apparently his first plan, which got scrapped for the plan with the Invaders. In this book we get several different statements from various people as to how the two kingdoms and it's people are connected -- who is descended from who, etc.

And lets not even get into the complete craziness of how anything is living on Vodani, when it's been ripped from its orbit and its sun by Nebulon.

TBH, it reminds me a lot of the People of the Black Sea from Sub-Mariner #40.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/blackseadim.htm

I have no idea what's up with that Panther panel, but it doesn't bode well.

The concept of the Atlanteans being alien is awful and I dismiss it outright.

To settle this Vodani nonsense once and for all as it is also something I reject. I am using the latest info from the post Rev had shared earlier in the thread, I typed it out so I could highlight a few things:

Fabled Atlantis represented the pinnacle of human achievement in ancient times. In an era when much of the globe was under the heel of monstrous Deviants, the continent functioned as a living library that preserved much of humanity’s cultural and scientific heritage. Although it was sent crashing to the ocean floor, Atlantis survived the seismic event precipitated by the Great Cataclysm of 18,000 BCE.

Miraculously, it was not only the continent’s robust architecture that endured but also some of its inhabitants. A fraction of Atlanteans survived the upheaval, their bodies adapting so that they could live in an aquatic environment. What ultimately precipitated this change is unknown*. Some believe it to be the result of arcane sorcery, while others speculate that advanced science was responsible for the mutation. What is certain is that the Atlanteans came into contact with natural water-breathers soon after finding themselves adrift in the Atlantic Ocean.**

The Vodani was a band of aquatic extraterrestrials who had traveled some years earlier to Earth’s seas through a portal from the water world of Vodan. The two people interacted extensively and from this intermingling, a new race was born - Homo Mermanus***. This emergent species was instinctively nomadic, spreading out across the vast seabed, forming countless small tribes and establishing numerous underwater principalities. Centuries after this first migration, a band of nomadic barbarians returned to the submerged ruins of Atlantis****. They established a permanent settlement on the site and restored many of the damaged buildings. They embraced the philosophy and science-based culture of their forebears. They referred to each other as Atlanteans and saw themselves as inheritors of a historically important legacy.


*The original on earth water breathers were from the lost city of Atlantis. It's very clearly stated their bodies evolved in some way, magical or scientific, to become water breathers.
** After they were in the water (it is not stated for how long they were alone in the seas, only that the Vodani showed up AFTER they had become water breathers.) While in The Best Defense: Namor, the Vodani consider themselves to be the original Earth Water breathers that means nothing imo because they might have thought they were alone for years before encountering the first band of nomadic Atlanteans. Or they are simply arrogant and liars since we already know that the King of Vodan wanted to trick/use Namor for his benefit. Either way their story has holes, and so we shouldn't rush to consider they were telling the whole truth.
*** Again it does not state how many years the Atlanteans were water breathers only that the Vodani spent some years in the oceans, which are very big, and came into contact with the Atlanteans, the bloodlines/water races intermingled and some were born part vodani/atlantean. At this point I consider Vodan and it's people like that of Tamara Rahn, from the water plant Laab, their water breathing race called Banari. The Sub-Mariner (1968) #58 - first appearance.
**** Again this would line up with what Rev says for the nomadic homo mermanus backstories in the comics.

I really don't understand why we should change all of the present Atlantean History that states several times they are descended from the original Atlantis, and evolved to become water breathers because as far as I am concerned the Vodan are just another in a long line of attempted explanations by writers who can't even agree on what the history should be. A small example below:

Other backstories from Atlantis as collected by me so far, still working on this list as I'm trying to find stories of Altantis centered recollections:
1. Fantastic Four (1961) Annual 1 - Recap of who Namor is as told by Reed Richards
2. The Sub-Mariner (1968) #38 - Namor thinks back on his ancestors
3. Man Thing (1997) #7-8 - Namor travels through time to meet with the Goddess Celtio and sees Atlantis in it's heyday.
4. The Sub-Mariner (1968) #62-66 Kamuu the Atlantean Nobleman and his wife, Zartra, a Lemurian born woman - Tales of Atlantis
5. Spectacular Spider-Man (1976) Annual 9 - Neptune & Ossem & the Serpent Crown
6. Incredible Hercules (2008) #123 Atlantean/Amazon war - I generally discount this and don't really think it's canon

Although I know not everyone reads Golden Age, especially the current writers, and most people dismiss the golden age stories I do feel it is important that Namor claims to be descended from Atlantis in Sub-Mariner Comics (1949) #31 now this was BEFORE Aquaman's change into being an Atlantean Prince. While I think his story about the magnets to Betty was a tall fish tale meant to tease her with, I do think/accept Namor's claim of being Atlantean royalty before Aquaman. I know Everett didn't see the Atlanteans as Atlanteans at first calling them Sub-Mariners but it still stands that other contributors laid Namor's claim to Atlantean royalty before DC.

Okay, what the heck is this?

I read this, written by Alex Paknadel, this is the only panel with Namor and I just don't understand why he is with Black Panther and Echo when Aaron (cue angry ranting about how I hate Aaron's writing) established Namor is fighting against them in his series, however with the very large hint by Aaron it def seems like Namor is sticking around the Avengers for SOME reason though I am baffled as to why. However from the very small panel sample I gathered that Black Panther and Echo are there meeting with Namor about Umar's people, so either BP & Echo are aiding Namor or something else is going on.

EDIT: ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT THING TO CONSIDER! If the Vodani and Atlanteans intermingled while there was a sect of Atlanteans who became the Atlanteans we know today and how only certain Atlanteans are of noble blood/connected to Neptune, then it is not beyond our realm of imagination to assume that Namor and his family were of the original descendants of Atlantis aka "pure blooded atlanteans" while others who intermingled with the Vodani are not, hence why Namor's family/other nobles have more claim to the Throne of Atlantis. This is just me speculating of course. In the end I would just treat the Vodani as Tamara Rahn, the Lemurians, Trition of the Inhumans, etc, they are just another "alien" race of water breathers who have connections to Earth.