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  1. #436
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I also feel that Sue and Namor have a Friendship---that while different from most others----is still a friendship. They both know that they can rely on the other for anything that they might need, no matter the circumstances. Most people cannot understand this type of friendship between a man and a woman and believe that there *must* be something going on between them. Even someone as smart as Reed does not understand, nor Johnny and least of all Ben. I think someone like Medusa would understand.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


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  2. #437
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Bought the entire 90ís Namor run for cheap on eBay. I canít wait to delve deep into it. My originals are in tatters and Iíve so many holes.

  3. #438
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Bought the entire 90’s Namor run for cheap on eBay. I can’t wait to delve deep into it. My originals are in tatters and I’ve so many holes.
    Congrats!

    I read the Byrne and the Harras / Jae Lee runs over and over. I was thrilled they put both of those runs in the omnibus. After that, the Glen Herdling and Geoff Isherwood stuff, I didn't re-read much. Probably because I can never forgive them for that Llyron mess. O_O
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  4. #439
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Thank you my friend for writing this, especially in response to my own meandering.

    The sue/namor thing is not so much complex as it is symbolic. Once you can accept that and see that value, it makes so much sense.

    Sue and Namor never have to step into each other's bed chambers, for this sort of love. More altruistic and 'servicing' to the world of human meets 'other'.

    Funny, I feel like I meandered a bit in that response. It's one of those things I have a lot of ideas or feelings about, but I'm not always so good at getting them to coalesce into a coherent communication. I have pondered FF 4 quite a bit, in part because Namor gets a lot of flack in that issue, but haven't written anything about it. This conversation has made me realize that I've approached it from Sue's PoV and her transformation, and I need to think more of Namor's PoV and what the myth would mean to him. Is there a transformation for Hades? That's why I find your idea of Namor reconciling his internal divisions interesting.

    Something I forgot, which may also explain why writers just won't let this relationship go, is that Hades and Persphone is a cyclic myth. Persephone spends 3 seasons in the world and in the sun, but she HAS to return to the underworld (the subconscious) for one season. It also explains why Sue turns to Namor when she is in the winter of her discontent. ;p

    All that said, from a story PoV and for the character himself, I wish Marvel would give Namor a relationship, instead of always using him as losing part of a relationship triangle.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I also feel that Sue and Namor have a Friendship---that while different from most others----is still a friendship. They both know that they can rely on the other for anything that they might need, no matter the circumstances. Most people cannot understand this type of friendship between a man and a woman and believe that there *must* be something going on between them. Even someone as smart as Reed does not understand, nor Johnny and least of all Ben. I think someone like Medusa would understand.
    Well, something WOULD go on if Namor could just talk Sue into it. LOL! But I think it's cool that Namor has a relationship beyond that with Sue.
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  5. #440
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Congrats!

    I read the Byrne and the Harras / Jae Lee runs over and over. I was thrilled they put both of those runs in the omnibus. After that, the Glen Herdling and Geoff Isherwood stuff, I didn't re-read much. Probably because I can never forgive them for that Llyron mess. O_O
    Wow...I will have to look for that omnibus. For years the only TPB I could find was just from Byrne's first 10 issues. As for LLyron I think I only read the final issue of that, and yeah. That was a mess Wasn't she masquerading as Sue?

  6. #441
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Funny, I feel like I meandered a bit in that response. It's one of those things I have a lot of ideas or feelings about, but I'm not always so good at getting them to coalesce into a coherent communication. I have pondered FF 4 quite a bit, in part because Namor gets a lot of flack in that issue, but haven't written anything about it. This conversation has made me realize that I've approached it from Sue's PoV and her transformation, and I need to think more of Namor's PoV and what the myth would mean to him. Is there a transformation for Hades? That's why I find your idea of Namor reconciling his internal divisions interesting.

    Something I forgot, which may also explain why writers just won't let this relationship go, is that Hades and Persphone is a cyclic myth. Persephone spends 3 seasons in the world and in the sun, but she HAS to return to the underworld (the subconscious) for one season. It also explains why Sue turns to Namor when she is in the winter of her discontent. ;p

    All that said, from a story PoV and for the character himself, I wish Marvel would give Namor a relationship, instead of always using him as losing part of a relationship triangle.





    Well, something WOULD go on if Namor could just talk Sue into it. LOL! But I think it's cool that Namor has a relationship beyond that with Sue.
    Well, it is fantastical meandering.
    I feel it is a love of humankind, which is higher universal and platonic love, but it does have it's moments.

    If Reed were ever truly gone from her life, Sue and Namor would come to each other eventually.
    I love the elegance of this stated in that one issue of Namor,

    "The Courtship of Sue Richards" which was actually more than one issue. But closing scenes are very awesome to me, and perhaps nails what I really feel in some ways.
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  7. #442
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Wow...I will have to look for that omnibus. For years the only TPB I could find was just from Byrne's first 10 issues. As for LLyron I think I only read the final issue of that, and yeah. That was a mess Wasn't she masquerading as Sue?
    Yes, I was stunned when it came out. They put out two out of three volumes of Byrne's run in paperback, and I kept waiting for the last one. Instead this omnibus arrived AND it included the Jae Lee run! I was thrilled. I think the last third of the 90s run, the 80s mini-series, and the Tsunami Namor are the only things that haven't been collected. You get your choice of a Byrne cover or a Jae Lee cover.


    https://www.amazon.com/Namor-Sub-Mar.../dp/1302919660


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  8. #443
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    The J-man

  9. #444
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Yes, I've been getting the texts about "Mr. Nimbus" .... I guess I know what I'll be doing tonight. LOL!
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  10. #445
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Yes, I was stunned when it came out. They put out two out of three volumes of Byrne's run in paperback, and I kept waiting for the last one. Instead this omnibus arrived AND it included the Jae Lee run! I was thrilled. I think the last third of the 90s run, the 80s mini-series, and the Tsunami Namor are the only things that haven't been collected. You get your choice of a Byrne cover or a Jae Lee cover.


    https://www.amazon.com/Namor-Sub-Mar.../dp/1302919660


    I will have to see if I can find one. I might be too late!

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I will have to see if I can find one. I might be too late!
    I'm pretty sure it is still around. Heck, you might find it on sale!
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  12. #447
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I'm pretty sure it is still around. Heck, you might find it on sale!
    I did see one for 40% off but I was looking for the Jae Lee cover. They might be out of those since I haven't seen any listed.

  13. #448
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    That Rick and Morty episode wow. Mr. Nimbus is clearly partially Namor inspired, but they've certainly put their own twist on the character
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  14. #449
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    That Rick and Morty episode wow. Mr. Nimbus is clearly partially Namor inspired, but they've certainly put their own twist on the character
    Wow is right. My eyes kept getting wider and wider, and then they fell out and rolled around the floor. LOL!

    It was like Kieron Gillen's Namor crossed with Hickman's heavy drinking Namor, crossed with Freddie Mercury. It's definitely going to be a ... divisive portrayal among Namor fans.

    I found it amusing and it was full of funny lines.

    "JC, he's Mr. Nimbus, he controls the police!" LOL!
    Last edited by Reviresco; 06-22-2021 at 09:29 AM.
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  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I did see one for 40% off but I was looking for the Jae Lee cover. They might be out of those since I haven't seen any listed.
    Hmmm. That may be the DM cover, so there might be less of them available.
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