IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2021

[K7P5V]

Like Thor-El, I think I appreciate Big John Buscema's Namor the most.

Indeed. For Classic Namor, my choice will always be Big John (XD)

I also like this particular era of Jae Lee's Namor. His 90s Namor is a bit too extreme for me and his modern Namor is a bit too ... stylized for me. But this era, from Inhumans and FF1234 and Cap Ice arc is perfect.




Also love Checcetto's Namor, even if he is a bit emo.

https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/com...65._SY540_.jpg

Basically, I like artists that draw a sleek and sexy Namor. ; p

Ha! You know me, Reviresco. I'll always prefer '90s Jae Lee, but I'm in agreement with you about the Jae Lee of this era...

Truly breathtaking (IMHO):

[ImperiusWrecked]

I love Jae Lee's art so much, those comics are amazing

[Oberon]

Although I say I'm a long time reader of Namor, there are some surprising holes in my reading and awareness of certain things. I probably stopped most of my regular reading with the old series, started by Byrne.
If I kept up with Namor stuff it might have either involved Defenders/comebacks or revivals, or more obviously Sue and the FF, since that remains the one comic I always read.

I kind of liked the King in Black but I didn't follow much of the other tie-ins and books. With the information presented there are quite a few ways to fill out Namor's more intermediate past.

I don't remember or never read the story where Triton indicated knowing Namor's mother, but I know that Inhumans are supposedly long lived, as I guess some underwater dwellers.
So did any of that go anywhere?

[Thor-El]

Here's a challenge for the group:

How do you turn someone onto Sub-Mariner stories and Namor as a character? The hypothetical subject is someone who enjoys comics, but has only been exposed to the general modern era. The oldest books the person will explore are the 90's "Age of Apocalypse". Anything beyond that time is considered "too old" with "crappy art". On top of this, with a narrow view of Marvel history, mostly viewed through the "X-books" the person is generally hostile to Namor, seeing him as the guy who sometimes shows up in X-books and is usually just seen as a pompous *******. Any other views of Namor are the stereotype of "lame fish-guy with silly wings on his feet." The "classic" greater Marvel Universe of the Fantastic Four, Namor, Invaders etc, is seen as lame and flat, not worth exploring.

What would you expose this person to? A top 5 reading list?

That is pretty hard as he/she doesn't wants to look at the good stuff which imo is the classic stuff by Bill Everett and Stan Lee (Roy Thomas). Crappy art John Buscema, Gene Colan/Bill Everett/ Marie Severin??!! Pffh!

So for new stuff I liked his stint in the X-Men, his relationship with Emma Frost is entertaining. Namor is interesting when he is trying to assert himself over another character be it competing with Hercules in the Avengers for who is the most alpha or trying to sweep off her feet the girl of the leader of a group he is interacting with (Emma Frost and Sue). Which actually makes him look as a "pompous *******" too. I mention Sue because before she became a happily married mother of two it didn't make Namor look bad. But the interactions with Emma Frost are more interesting than Sue's because she is a character that dances in the gray area like Namor, you don't know if she is using him or really falling for him. There was some of that with Lady Dorma at the beginning although in time it became pretty obvious she wasn't after the crown and really in love with him. Emma and Dorma both aggressive women versus the softer Sue and Marrina.

Sub-mariner The Initiative from 2007 has some interactions with Wolverine and Venom that make Namor look badass so I would suggest that one. I have only browsed the 2009 " The Marvel Project" but that seems like a very good read that goes over the old stuff but is a newer book by Brubaker and highlights Namor as a hero of World War 2.

[Oberon]

To me, Namor should always be way up there in strength. I don't understand how he can be beaten by just anyone.

I guess I will always see Namor and Sue as opposites that tried to reach towards each other at one point, or for different reasons. I think she sees someone who should be seen or respected more, by surface world, and so maybe a slight pity for him.

Opposites attract, or to me.

I never liked the little I saw of Namor with Emma, so I didn't see that she really cared for him. I'll take it as both, she did/does come to care/be attracted to him, but mostly wanted an alliance because of his power and resources. Fair enough.

Maybe Namor's true 'type' or mate, beyond Dorma, would have been Namora, his cousin, not cousin, and many ways, somehow the most like him. But again probably never to happen.

I can be mature about the Sue thing. I even forgive Dorma for throwing her out the hatch underwater, ages ago.

[Reviresco]

To me, Namor should always be way up there in strength. I don't understand how he can be beaten by just anyone.

I guess I will always see Namor and Sue as opposites that tried to reach towards each other at one point, or for different reasons. I think she sees someone who should be seen or respected more, by surface world, and so maybe a slight pity for him.

Opposites attract, or to me.

I never liked the little I saw of Namor with Emma, so I didn't see that she really cared for him. I'll take it as both, she did/does come to care/be attracted to him, but mostly wanted an alliance because of his power and resources. Fair enough.

Maybe Namor's true 'type' or mate, beyond Dorma, would have been Namora, his cousin, not cousin, and many ways, somehow the most like him. But again probably never to happen.

I can be mature about the Sue thing. I even forgive Dorma for throwing her out the hatch underwater, ages ago.

LOL! That's very forgiving of you. : ) Oddly, it is one of the things that makes me love Lady Dorma. heheheheheh. Of course, the amazing thing is that SUE seemed to forgive / forget what Lady Dorma did.

I've never really felt Namora worked as a love interest, mainly because we have fewer non-Golden Age appearances for her. Of course, we didn't have that many appearances for Abira, or Marrina, now that I think of it.

I like Namor and Emma because they are so much fun together. They are both so ... outspoken. I didn't really get the feeling that their relationship was about love, but there was definitely a strong sexual attraction. I also think a strong part of their mutual appeal is that they are honest and accepting of each other and their ... foibles.

Don't get me started on modern writers jobbing Namor.

[Thor-El]

To me, Namor should always be way up there in strength. I don't understand how he can be beaten by just anyone.

I guess I will always see Namor and Sue as opposites that tried to reach towards each other at one point, or for different reasons. I think she sees someone who should be seen or respected more, by surface world, and so maybe a slight pity for him.

Opposites attract, or to me.

I never liked the little I saw of Namor with Emma, so I didn't see that she really cared for him. I'll take it as both, she did/does come to care/be attracted to him, but mostly wanted an alliance because of his power and resources. Fair enough.

Maybe Namor's true 'type' or mate, beyond Dorma, would have been Namora, his cousin, not cousin, and many ways, somehow the most like him. But again probably never to happen.

I can be mature about the Sue thing. I even forgive Dorma for throwing her out the hatch underwater, ages ago.

Ha, ha, ha! The comedic genius and character development of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby is what made these characters icons and what I miss so much. I read the entire Kirby/Lee Thor run in order at the beginning of this year and had such a blast, and that was a less humorous strip but so much creativity! Lee's re-introduction of the Sub-mariner was great, you could tell he cared for the character. I can't blame you for holding on to that first romantic triangle and wishing the resolution was different. But in truth that ship sailed a long time ago. When you introduce children as in life is very hard to completely undo a couple even more in the comics, unless its a less known character like Jane Foster with an even lesser character like Dr. Kincaid. Even John Byrne efforts with Vision and Scarlet Witch which seemed pretty final have never really erased Vision and Scarlet Witch. Believe me, Reed and Sue will always get back together in the end no matter how much a writer tries to push Namor and Sue together. And you will end up with a big bunch of FF fans hating on Namor.

[Reviresco]

Although I say I'm a long time reader of Namor, there are some surprising holes in my reading and awareness of certain things. I probably stopped most of my regular reading with the old series, started by Byrne.
If I kept up with Namor stuff it might have either involved Defenders/comebacks or revivals, or more obviously Sue and the FF, since that remains the one comic I always read.

I kind of liked the King in Black but I didn't follow much of the other tie-ins and books. With the information presented there are quite a few ways to fill out Namor's more intermediate past.

I don't remember or never read the story where Triton indicated knowing Namor's mother, but I know that Inhumans are supposedly long lived, as I guess some underwater dwellers.
So did any of that go anywhere?

The only place I've seen where Triton allegedly is older than Namor and was friends with Princess Fen is in that Inhumans book which I posted a Jae Lee page from. It is by Paul Jenkins and won an Eisner. It is a great book, with a small, but pivotal role for Namor. He's involved because a raised Atlantis (a dangling plotline left over from the end of Namor's 90s book) is being claimed by several countries / peoples, including the Inhumans. This is the book where Atlantis returns to ocean floor.

This is a another great example of Namor and Black Bolt working together, flexing their major diplomatic muscles, and Namor pulling out his Oscar worthy acting skills, to get what they want. It really makes Hickman's back stabbing betrayal by Black Bolt, without a single explanation or reason, come across as utter nonsense.

Anyway, I tend to totally disregard the retcon of Triton and Fen and his age, because that appears no where else that I know of. Plus, it makes no sense, within the MU timeline or, AFAIK, the Inhumans history.

I read little else in the King in Black event also. Just the Namor parts. ; p

[ImperiusWrecked]

As for who would be my present choice for a new Namor series ... I'd have to think more about that. Besides doing Namor himself justice, I think his book requires someone who can WOW folks with world building, like Carlos Magno -- even if I'm not as fond of his Namor. Plus, it would have to be a name artist to get sales.

Off the top of my head, I'm going to have to go with a post I saw here years ago ... Mukesh Singh, if he takes his time like in Grant Morrison's 18 Days. His figures are pretty, and his worlds are stunning. How that would translate to comic panels ... I'm not so sure.

https://mukeshsingh.myportfolio.com/18-days

Oh my... I think I'm in love with this art!!!! This would be amazing to see for Namor

[Oberon]

I know you folks are right (and that was just a small point of my post) but in real life, it is not this simple. I've heard more than one story about HS sweethearts who didn't marry, ended up in other marriages, kids. Then many years later, after a spouse/s have died, find each other and rekindle.
I've heard of or have known a couple of rekindle relationships from this perspective. But it is not good comic fare. I just feel true love does always win in the end, but I see the characters as being able to 'love' more than one person at a time, even if in differing measures. Hey! I didn't bring up 'triangle', lol.

Which is why people love their soap operas, no matter what form they take, heheh.

I suddenly see what Rev says about Emma and Namor, though I didn't read all those stories.
I won't belabor too much (again!) but Sue/Namor exists along another trope/sub-trope of this "can't erase the memory" type romances.
Maybe why you all can't appreciate it, but it does, will they/won't they exists in so many serialized fictions. This one has elemental/archetypal qualities that have embedded themselves in not so much a consensus - obviously, there are you all, lol - but in a more cultural and colloquiel (sic) sense. I'll be the first to admit that this isn't marketing of some sort, since consumption drives everything but again another topic.
I shameless/fully admit that whenever Namor interacts with the FF, I look forward to what these two might say or do and I suspect that many more do too.

I really like having this dialog and when I seem upset/done, I can usually blow it off, so hopefully likewise.
In essence, we're all being played. We'd all mostly just want a decent Namor comic.

[Reviresco]

Brace for incoming Jason Aaron Namor appearance.

I hear he shows up briefly in Avengers 50 today, with She-Hulk saving the day. Definitely not worth $10 I imagine, especially with the non-Namor panels I've seen at Bleeding Cool, but may be worth a flip through at the LCBS. Then again, it is Aaron. ;p

[Thor-El]

Brace for incoming Jason Aaron Namor appearance.

I hear he shows up briefly in Avengers 50 today, with She-Hulk saving the day. Definitely not worth $10 I imagine, especially with the non-Namor panels I've seen at Bleeding Cool, but may be worth a flip through at the LCBS. Then again, it is Aaron. ;p

I know everyone here hates Jason Aaron and I confess I also don't like many of the stuff he does but Thor and Namor in the same Avengers roster is not something common. They were active members together briefly in the 80s under Stern or was it Simonson? As a Thor fan to me this is exciting plus Jane Foster is a character very dear to me and like Dorma with Namor I've always been shipping for her and Thor. Not Namor related but I gotta sound off about Marvel.com having a big new feature on Thor on their website with multiple pages dedicated to him and using pictures from the MCU. Check it out: https://www.marvel.com/characters/thor-thor-odinson/

[Phoenixx9]

Brace for incoming Jason Aaron Namor appearance.

I hear he shows up briefly in Avengers 50 today, with She-Hulk saving the day. Definitely not worth $10 I imagine, especially with the non-Namor panels I've seen at Bleeding Cool, but may be worth a flip through at the LCBS. Then again, it is Aaron. ;p

I know everyone here hates Jason Aaron and I confess I also don't like many of the stuff he does but Thor and Namor in the same Avengers roster is not something common. They were active members together briefly in the 80s under Stern or was it Simonson? As a Thor fan to me this is exciting plus Jane Foster is a character very dear to me and like Dorma with Namor I've always been shipping for her and Thor. Not Namor related but I gotta sound off about Marvel.com having a big new feature on Thor on their website with multiple pages dedicated to him and using pictures from the MCU. Check it out: https://www.marvel.com/characters/thor-thor-odinson/

Yes, Jason Aaron has "shook things up" for sure with all of the characters, many times to the dismay of fans, but sometimes giving an interesting take. I think Marvel likes what he planned and allows him to do what he wants.

I also like Namor and Thor on the same team. It is rare to see and I want them to explore all of the commonalities they have, rather than fight like they have so many times in the past.

But of course my favorite thing about Jason Aaron is this quote of a good pal of mine---who gave it to me over 1 year ago and which means a lot---"Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

[Reviresco]

I know everyone here hates Jason Aaron and I confess I also don't like many of the stuff he does but Thor and Namor in the same Avengers roster is not something common. They were active members together briefly in the 80s under Stern or was it Simonson? As a Thor fan to me this is exciting plus Jane Foster is a character very dear to me and like Dorma with Namor I've always been shipping for her and Thor. Not Namor related but I gotta sound off about Marvel.com having a big new feature on Thor on their website with multiple pages dedicated to him and using pictures from the MCU. Check it out: https://www.marvel.com/characters/thor-thor-odinson/

I don't have a problem with Thor and Namor being on the Avengers together -- though I do prefer Namor and Herc, because they are so much fun together. Thor was a character witness at Namor's trial during Byrne's run.

I haven't read Jane Foster Thor yet, so I don't really have an opinion on that, except I didn't like Thor being 'unworthy,' and how Aaron did that with Nick Fury, of all people. But I do admit, I'm Team Sif, when it comes to Thor. ;p

Cool! Thanks for the link. I can't stop staring at those 'guns!' LOL!

Yes, Jason Aaron has "shook things up" for sure with all of the characters, many times to the dismay of fans, but sometimes giving an interesting take. I think Marvel likes what he planned and allows him to do what he wants.

I also like Namor and Thor on the same team. It is rare to see and I want them to explore all of the commonalities they have, rather than fight like they have so many times in the past.

But of course my favorite thing about Jason Aaron is this quote of a good pal of mine---who gave it to me over 1 year ago and which means a lot---"Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

LOL! Excellent point!

As I think I've said before, I think Aaron is a great writer -- read any of his independent comics or some of his early Wolverine stuff ... but his Avengers run is a hot mess. And I do NOT like his take on Namor at all.

[Oberon]

The raising of Atlantis. I >sort of< remember. But I remember something from FF Annuals, crossing over with Atlantis or Attilan?

That art was beautiful, that you posted, by the way.