IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2021

[Thor-El]

Chapter 2 Page 48 from "The Dissection of King Namor" > Day 7 of 24 days of Namor Christmas

[Reviresco]

Something more important than Lady Dorma??? Poor Vashti.


Great job with your advent calendar, Thor-El! Work and some family stuff is taking up a lot of my time right now. However, I will try to catch up tomorrow.


I'll leave folks this sound snippet that I found from the Civil War prose novel of a scene I'm sure we're all familiar with.


https://a.tumblr.com/tumblr_nhh5fnQBbq1r3a7j7o1.mp3

[Oberon]

When you think about it, Namor was originally intended to be "a fish out of water", his early adventures were above the seas, and others have said that the ideas for Atlantis or other water folks came along.

Once it did, Namor's conceit is that he is different, very, from most of these now present Atlanteans.

So maybe that is why Namor has some problems getting into the fully integrated universe, especially the MCU.
Maybe there is over-thinking on selling Namor as white guy (more or less) amidst a "sea" of non white folks.

In some ways it seems it would be more the way to go, to intro him first, and then the Atlanteans.

It might be very interesting to intro him in a retcon way. Winter Soldier, or someone 'remembers' Namor as someone who helped, once or twice but was a mystery person/hero and vanished into the seas.

Or... a retcon, where the US forces got Horton's Human Torch online, and Hammond remembers Namor from the war years.

Staging the scene for his full true return to the surface.
"Back to Atlantis"
So I've watched Shang-Chi, which I mostly liked. The ending battle was too tedious for me, but this seems to happen in most of these movies...
But someone said, the MCU is getting formulaic in the sense that we're just coming across hidden civilization after hidden civilization now. Or dimensional. Or planetary, etc.
Wouldn't it be cool if Atlantis was a slow reveal? Like whoever encounters Namor, they don't believe he's the prince etc, Maybe in pursuit of him for whatever reason, they follow him into the ocean depths and some deep trench they come across

Atlantis.

[Phoenixx9]

Thanks for the comment PX. You haven't seen anything yet.

Yay! I am so ready for more! I am loving it all.

[Thor-El]

Even without Vashti or Dorma there, where are characters like Byrrah, Krang, or even Attuma, why aren't they filling the vacuum that Namor is constantly leaving? I could easily imagine a story where Byrrah takes the throne as a steward, becoming a sort of "Price John" to Namor's absent "King Richard". I swear, Marvel had made Namor into the most incompetent, disaster of a monarch. I couldn't blame all of Atlantis if it were to revolt and depose Namor forever, and maybe the monarchy. Thakorr was a better Emperor, grumpy as he was. Hell, Doom, an actual tyrant, has a better track record. At least Latverians are depicted as safe and happy for the most part. Doom's shenanigans usually only ever seem to get his personal castle attacked or destroyed. The world of the Sub-Mariner is a mess.

Hey Thor-El, the skin textures on your Namor are really good, I think you've improved since I last saw your art.

Its because Marvel doesn't uses these characters anymore. Even Thor that has always have an ongoing magazine almost uninterrupted you hardly ever see something important done with the Warriors Three, Sif, Karnilla, or any of the supporting characters outside of the main magazine, characters like Tana Nile, Hildegarde, Silas Grant, Ulik, Heirodur are almost forgotten. So Namor not having a regular magazine has made all these character dynamics totally forgotten, most of them are unexisting for Marvel editorial and contemporary writers. There was no need to invent Machlan in the last Invaders series when Namor's pantheon of villains and characters haven't been touched in years. I hate when writers ignore the characters history and just write new things, specially with an 80 year old character.

[Thor-El]

Something more important than Lady Dorma??? Poor Vashti.


Great job with your advent calendar, Thor-El! Work and some family stuff is taking up a lot of my time right now. However, I will try to catch up tomorrow.


I'll leave folks this sound snippet that I found from the Civil War prose novel of a scene I'm sure we're all familiar with.


https://a.tumblr.com/tumblr_nhh5fnQBbq1r3a7j7o1.mp3

Yes, poor Vashti indeed. He could have died of a heart attack and it would have been Namor to blame. Thank you Rev. Looking forward to your calendar. And what a great soundtrack! Never listened to that one before!

Yay! I am so ready for more! I am loving it all.

Ha, ha, thanks man, appreciated. There is so much Namor in the comics that I simply don't like and that honestly is really not the character I grew up with. So it is awesome writing him as I remember even though older, wiser and many will point out with a lot more muscle mass but hey I'm a child of the He-Man era so blame that action figure.

[Reviresco]

When you think about it, Namor was originally intended to be "a fish out of water", his early adventures were above the seas, and others have said that the ideas for Atlantis or other water folks came along.

Once it did, Namor's conceit is that he is different, very, from most of these now present Atlanteans.

So maybe that is why Namor has some problems getting into the fully integrated universe, especially the MCU.
Maybe there is over-thinking on selling Namor as white guy (more or less) amidst a "sea" of non white folks.

In some ways it seems it would be more the way to go, to intro him first, and then the Atlanteans.

It might be very interesting to intro him in a retcon way. Winter Soldier, or someone 'remembers' Namor as someone who helped, once or twice but was a mystery person/hero and vanished into the seas.

Or... a retcon, where the US forces got Horton's Human Torch online, and Hammond remembers Namor from the war years.

Staging the scene for his full true return to the surface.
"Back to Atlantis"
So I've watched Shang-Chi, which I mostly liked. The ending battle was too tedious for me, but this seems to happen in most of these movies...
But someone said, the MCU is getting formulaic in the sense that we're just coming across hidden civilization after hidden civilization now. Or dimensional. Or planetary, etc.
Wouldn't it be cool if Atlantis was a slow reveal? Like whoever encounters Namor, they don't believe he's the prince etc, Maybe in pursuit of him for whatever reason, they follow him into the ocean depths and some deep trench they come across

Atlantis.

Hobo Namor or bust! LOL!


I'm not sure just a 'fish out of water' originally. I mean, the ideas for Atlantis and the Sub-Mariners was there from the first issue -- even if it wasn't called Atlantis. From the first issue, the idea that Namor was different from the other Sub-Mariners is there.

I think Namor is fully integrated in the MU, since he is a founder of the MU and he was used so much since FF #4. The problem, IMO, is that Marvel didn't give Namor the chances it gave most the rest of their ongoing characters. He should have been in an ongoing relatively continuously, like everyone else. For whatever reason, Marvel has repeatedly thrown away their chances to do so. Remember, he was supposed to have another ongoing from Shooter and Alan Weiss in the early 80s. IIRC David Micheline was supposed to do a Subby book also. And after the 90s run, he should have gotten another ongoing, but that never happened either. Marvel has missed out on several generations of readers for Namor, and that's what's hurt the character -- and some of his modern interpretations for guest spots. What he really needs is a popular writer willing to do what Geoff Johns has done for his favorites, like Aquaman, Black Adam, Green Lantern, JSA, etc. -- INVEST in the character, not abuse the Namor in guest spots to support other characters.

[Phoenixx9]

Its because Marvel doesn't uses these characters anymore. Even Thor that has always have an ongoing magazine almost uninterrupted you hardly ever see something important done with the Warriors Three, Sif, Karnilla, or any of the supporting characters outside of the main magazine, characters like Tana Nile, Hildegarde, Silas Grant, Ulik, Heirodur are almost forgotten. So Namor not having a regular magazine has made all these character dynamics totally forgotten, most of them are unexisting for Marvel editorial and contemporary writers. There was no need to invent Machlan in the last Invaders series when Namor's pantheon of villains and characters haven't been touched in years. I hate when writers ignore the characters history and just write new things, specially with an 80 year old character.

Yes, poor Vashti indeed. He could have died of a heart attack and it would have been Namor to blame. Thank you Rev. Looking forward to your calendar. And what a great soundtrack! Never listened to that one before!



Ha, ha, thanks man, appreciated. There is so much Namor in the comics that I simply don't like and that honestly is really not the character I grew up with. So it is awesome writing him as I remember even though older, wiser and many will point out with a lot more muscle mass but hey I'm a child of the He-Man era so blame that action figure.

I agree and as I have mentioned a few times, it seems that the writers/editors and such of today ignore the past of the characters, all of the supporting cast, including old and obscure (but very good!) villains, plot points, story arcs, relics and mystical elements, even the personality and consistency of the characters. All of these things seem so off to me, that the characters do no not seem like themselves to me. I think most, if not all, of this "new talent" has never read the "old stories" and because of that lack---do not "know" the characters---at least not the way we do.

Even if they "grew up reading" comics in late 80's-early 90's, they still have missed so much because that does not capture all of the essence of the characters and stories. For example, so many fans have mentioned that their first experience with X-Men in general and Jean Grey in particular---was from the 90's X-Men Animated Series. So they got the impression that Jean was less than the other mutants, was weak, always fainted and tripped and called out "Scott!" for everything. Such a shame.

That is why this thread is so important because we can keep the Sea King alive in our hearts and minds the way we know him and his cast to be!

[Reviresco]

Well, I'm severely disappointed. Kieron Gillen is returning to the X-books and doing an awesome book on the Quiet Council, or as he says, Hickman's New Avengers for the X-men. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see Gillen write Namor again in this setting. Instead, we have Namor joining Aaron's Avengers. Namor fans just can't get a break. I'm going to my corner at work and sob quietly.

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...l-announcement

[Phoenixx9]

I would like to see Jean Grey lead her own team again. She could call Namor as a member which would be fantastic!

[ImperiusWrecked]

X-Men Red is on the list for one of next year's upcoming titles, given how Namor was barely used except as set dressing the last time around I don't have high hopes this time around.

[Oberon]

I liked the short lived series.

[Reviresco]

X-Men Red is on the list for one of next year's upcoming titles, given how Namor was barely used except as set dressing the last time around I don't have high hopes this time around.

I'm fairly certain that X-Men Red will have nothing to do with the previous title. Tom Taylor says he has nothing to do with it. It may have something to do with the Mars Colony. Or something to do with the Russians mutants, what with Omega Red, Colossus, Magik, etc.

I honestly think that Tom Taylor only put Namor on the team so he could use that Seabro joke. He literally did nothing with Namor on that title.

[Iron Maiden]

Hobo Namor or bust! LOL!


I'm not sure just a 'fish out of water' originally. I mean, the ideas for Atlantis and the Sub-Mariners was there from the first issue -- even if it wasn't called Atlantis. From the first issue, the idea that Namor was different from the other Sub-Mariners is there.

I think Namor is fully integrated in the MU, since he is a founder of the MU and he was used so much since FF #4. The problem, IMO, is that Marvel didn't give Namor the chances it gave most the rest of their ongoing characters. He should have been in an ongoing relatively continuously, like everyone else. For whatever reason, Marvel has repeatedly thrown away their chances to do so. Remember, he was supposed to have another ongoing from Shooter and Alan Weiss in the early 80s. IIRC David Micheline was supposed to do a Subby book also. And after the 90s run, he should have gotten another ongoing, but that never happened either. Marvel has missed out on several generations of readers for Namor, and that's what's hurt the character -- and some of his modern interpretations for guest spots. What he really needs is a popular writer willing to do what Geoff Johns has done for his favorites, like Aquaman, Black Adam, Green Lantern, JSA, etc. -- INVEST in the character, not abuse the Namor in guest spots to support other characters.

I feel Marvel really missed the boat on getting him into their films. DC had a degree of success with Aquaman but that franchise (if it is one) seems to be stalled like so many things since the pandemic. But I'm sure fans here will agree that to a great degree the movie ripped off Namor. Movie Aquaman reminds me especially of the Byrne/Jae Lee phase of his solo comic.

And did you say Hobo Namor??? did you mean his cousin Shamor from the Cabal? Seriously, I don't know what artist Alex Maleev was thinking when he did this issue. BTW, I wanted to PM you but your mailbox is full

[Thor-El]

Chapter 2 Page 49 from "The Dissection of King Namor" > Day 8 of 24 days of Namor Christmas