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  1. #616
    Amazing Member Subby1939's Avatar
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    I still own this variant cover . Fantastic piece

  2. #617
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby1939 View Post
    I still own this variant cover . Fantastic piece
    You got the Rivera FF villains cover I just posted? Wow! Congrats!
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  3. #618
    Amazing Member Subby1939's Avatar
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    The comic not the original painting lol

  4. #619
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I agree. Namor needs his own book and a real love interest, instead of being used as a rival to 'enlive' what a writer considers a boring relationship. However, I think Sue has continued to show interest in Namor and wants him to be interested in her. She needs to quit trading on their relationship. Speaking of, she needs to take a page out of Diane Arliss Newell's book. That said, Namor is always going to flirt.

    No way. I've less than zero interest in seeing Namor and T'challa together.

    Doom and Namor, OTOH, has been long over due. I'd rather have a mini-series, however. Written by someone with alot of wit and affection for BOTH characters.
    I feel Sue uses Namor's interest to align him with their side, which is another reason I wish we could leave this in the past as a one time crush they had on each other and move on. We know marvel will never break up ReedSue in 616 canon.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  5. #620
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Cian Tomery drew Namor in his thread #drawingnamor for an art demo! Link 1 , Link 2

    (I'm very happy he picked my suggestion!)
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  6. #621
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I feel Sue uses Namor's interest to align him with their side, which is another reason I wish we could leave this in the past as a one time crush they had on each other and move on. We know marvel will never break up ReedSue in 616 canon.
    Of course Sue would want to align Namor with their side, because, they're heroes. Their side is the good side, and maybe Sue is the only/few of the ones who realize that Namor is essentially good, but for some reasons (oh, nearly destroying NYC in the '40s) is not easily perceived as heroic by most.

    Let's stop this 2nd guessing of Sue or Namor's motives. They're heroes and the reason this is portrayed this way, is

    Namor is the ultimate outsider. Namor *is* the Kal-el/Superman of the Marvel Universe.

    A strange visitor from another world.
    But Namor is also a part/from our world.
    So .... more like Tarzan.
    I find it incredible that after all these years, I actually realized that and took it in too.

    Namor will never be shown to be happy/satisfied in love.
    Especially because some of you seem to want that the most.

    So Sue, is essentially never going to happen, but Sue, or Betty or Diane or someone else

    will be the voice of humanity that reaches him. It is no more difficult or simple to understand.
    So we should all stop whining. Namor will never have a bride that lives and is happy with him.

    Unless, of course he does somehow, someway, end up with Sue, who likewise would most likely never die in the comic verse.
    So that is why Namor and Sue won't happen the way most of you dread or the way I would allow.
    It is that exquisite Soap Opera sexual tension

    that keeps us all wondering and reading.
    Sue may always, always be 'the one that got away' (funny because fish usually get away from fishers)

    Namor will always be the ultimate Doomed Romantic (some sort of classical trope)
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  7. #622
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Of course Sue would want to align Namor with their side, because, they're heroes. Their side is the good side, and maybe Sue is the only/few of the ones who realize that Namor is essentially good, but for some reasons (oh, nearly destroying NYC in the '40s) is not easily perceived as heroic by most.

    Let's stop this 2nd guessing of Sue or Namor's motives. They're heroes and the reason this is portrayed this way, is

    Namor is the ultimate outsider. Namor *is* the Kal-el/Superman of the Marvel Universe.

    A strange visitor from another world.
    But Namor is also a part/from our world.
    So .... more like Tarzan.
    I find it incredible that after all these years, I actually realized that and took it in too.

    Namor will never be shown to be happy/satisfied in love.
    Especially because some of you seem to want that the most.

    So Sue, is essentially never going to happen, but Sue, or Betty or Diane or someone else

    will be the voice of humanity that reaches him. It is no more difficult or simple to understand.
    So we should all stop whining. Namor will never have a bride that lives and is happy with him.

    Unless, of course he does somehow, someway, end up with Sue, who likewise would most likely never die in the comic verse.
    So that is why Namor and Sue won't happen the way most of you dread or the way I would allow.
    It is that exquisite Soap Opera sexual tension

    that keeps us all wondering and reading.
    Sue may always, always be 'the one that got away' (funny because fish usually get away from fishers)

    Namor will always be the ultimate Doomed Romantic (some sort of classical trope)
    There is no sexual tension on Sue's part these days, there is no soap opera drama because we KNOW Marvel will not let it happen outside of another AU or whatever we call things like Fantastic Four: Life Story and grand design.

    The point of it in the beginning was Namor was a romantic rival for Reed, his opposite in every way, Sue was supposed to be torn between love for her new found family and an exotic dangerous stranger.

    The thing I dread and find distasteful is how this affects Namor's character, he is constantly put in a position where a woman goes "Ugh. Men." He is constantly portrayed as a creeper and homewrecker. At some point it stopped being romantic. I don't disagree with early years Fantastic Four, I don't disagree that at one point they had feelings for each other. However in today's Fantastic Four this issue does nothing for either character and in fact only makes both look bad.

    The main reason Marvel never let's Namor have a love interest or kids that never die is because they don't want a happy settled Namor, which we fans knowing his character and knowing how loyal he is would know that's what would happen. I'm not asking for that because I know drama sells. What I am asking for is Namor not to be used as a third wheel for another couples plot. ReedSue or ScottEmma. I don't care about them, I only care about Namor's character, so having Dorma back doesn't mean thing will be fine in fact it could open up having more drama, maybe Dorma falls out of love because she wants to find her own path or maybe Llyra comes back and we have her trying to make trouble again.

    The whole point of why I argue against NamorSue is because I'm sick and tired of Namor being reduced to a subplot that goes nowhere. Until Marvel creators stop associating Namor with the same tired byline of "I loved you Sue, you were the only woman for me, we could have been great together" then he will continue to be used that way.

    The backbone of Namor's character is that he is torn between his two worlds, he walks the line between surface and sea, and he is unsettled, unhappy, searching for a balance in his life. If writers think Namor getting married or having a long term love interest means he will be boring then maybe they should learn how to write better. Namor's love life is Doomed and traumatic I agree but that doesn't mean we need to settle for Namor being used as a joke for ReedSue. I don't want Namor settled with Sue either, however I don't mind if it's an AU verse.

    I only mention bringing Dorma back or having a new love interest only because that's what will stop creators from using Namor in that way.
    I would love stories about Namor's adventures MORE than a romance story. I want stories of Atlantis, the fantastical history. We don't need a romance for that.

    Namor is a Byronic Hero, he is doomed to tragedies, he is meant to be moody, rebellious, and harboring secrets from his past. We should see him dealing with his life as a monarch of the seas.

    I won't be bringing this topic up again since I don't want to cause discourse in the thread and I would love to talk about literally anything else, but those are my personal feelings on this matter. I will continue reading my way through the comics and finish my fan article on the nature of NamorSue as neutrally as I can.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  8. #623
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Because I believe in polyamory, freelove, and see this as a Pagan/Neo-Pagan thing

    this does not creep me out.
    I don't see Namor as a joke to the boring married couple.
    I see it as rather noble.
    But yes to the Byronic hero - to the max.
    I understand how you see it limits the character of Namor, but when he has appeared in other storylines it is less of a problem.
    I would like to see and agree that if Namor had/could carry his own book, or was going to be a real team member on some other comic, we might see better growth.

    As much as you are/seem opposed to Namor and Sue, I very much

    detest him with Emma. So I would be sad and not so much a fan of that 'ship.

    In the past we talked about ways Dorma might be revived as a clone or some such, and that would only work in the context of a long running story or attempt.
    It just would be cheap to do less.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  9. #624
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Because I believe in polyamory, freelove, and see this as a Pagan/Neo-Pagan thing

    this does not creep me out.
    I don't see Namor as a joke to the boring married couple.
    I see it as rather noble.
    But yes to the Byronic hero - to the max.
    I understand how you see it limits the character of Namor, but when he has appeared in other storylines it is less of a problem.
    I would like to see and agree that if Namor had/could carry his own book, or was going to be a real team member on some other comic, we might see better growth.

    As much as you are/seem opposed to Namor and Sue, I very much

    detest him with Emma. So I would be sad and not so much a fan of that 'ship.

    In the past we talked about ways Dorma might be revived as a clone or some such, and that would only work in the context of a long running story or attempt.
    It just would be cheap to do less.
    I am not creeped out nor do I dislike the idea of a Ployamoric Namor, in fact I highly encourage people to think of Namor as not bound by surface standards and he would find love in partners of all genders, I do not bring this up often because I know many fans think of Namor as a straight male character and that's fine, this is my personal headcanons/thoughts.

    However Polyamory means consent of all partners involved, it means each partner is okay with the others, it does not mean cheating. So unless people start arguing for Namor/Reed as hard as for NamorSue or unless there is clear evidence that Reed and Sue have an open marriage then this love triangle isn't anything more than cheating. Or a man, Namor, who is constantly harassing a married women years beyond the first rejection by her.

    It's canon that Namor is the butt of their jokes, Sue uses Namor's interest to make Reed jealous, and the later Reed transforms his face into a semblance of Namor and Sue laughed along with him. Fantastic Four (1961) #512.
    Screenshot_20210801-141952_Twitter.jpg

    It's canon that Namor is into consenting polyamorous relationships, winter soldier (2014) #1, Namor states he has four partners, one of which has a male version of the name.
    Also:
    "Only Namor has the ability to make the earth move. And he reserves that privilege for one woman at a time. Unless they have experimental friends." Uncanny X-Men (1963) 534.1

    I like Namor/Emma very much but dislike Namor being the third wheel of Scott/Emma. I don't need Namor to end up with Emma, I would be more than fine with another new character. I don't want a clone of Dorma, either real Dorma or not at all simply because clones have limited shelf lives before they are destroyed or dead or sent to comic limbo. Real Dorma may still die (again) but that's up to the writer.

    Will fans on a larger scale than the few of us who think Namor should be Pansexual be open to thinking of the character in that way? Will writers be willing to portray Namor openly as a man who is Bi or Pansexual? Will Marvel allow this? I don't know and I am not particularly bothered if it happens or not. To me Namor's character doesn't change whether he is straight, Bi, pan, into polyamory or monogamous. Namor is simply Namor.

    As I said these are just my personal thoughts and cannot dictate what creators choose to do. I will attempt to keep my NamorSue grumblings to myself while I continue to hope for good things for Namor's character.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  10. #625
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Whatever you may feel about Sue and Namor, there's zero doubt in my mind that as a story arc it's been utterly exhausted and is boring as hell. For the love of God, won't someone let these characters move on already.

    Sue/Namor is tiresome to me and I've never like Emma and have no idea why Namor would be interested in someone so blatantly manipulative. In both instances, it's just Namor being a third wheel in a book that isn't his own. That's the problem and will continue to be so until Marvel gets their head out of their ass.

    I dont want Namor with any human any longer, mutant or otherwise, and certainly not a pansexual, Jesus he's got a hard enough time getting an ongoing as it is. If Marvel tried to make Namor a pansexual to fit more in line with their current seemingly suicidal objective, which I could see them doing, I think I'd be done with Marvel for good. Most people are barely hanging on as it is. He needs to have relationships and interests with Atlantean women, in Atlantean locations, in Atlantean stories. Sub-Mariner stories.

  11. #626
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I appreciate your thoughts. I'm rather grumpy so I come across as a know it all or font of wisdom.

    I so totally agree with consent and polyamory.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  12. #627
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I do not see Namor as bi or pan, but I would have no large problem if that happened.

    I just don't think it would do anything for his character, but it wouldn't detract much either.

    I guess I get it, Sue and Namor end up being boring or tired.

    Maybe that says the part of me that wants to see it happen, but my own vanity is rather selfish.

    on some level, I have this weird hangup about opposites attracting and they are as opposite on the physical level as it gets.
    So I will try not to pander so much about this, but

    I still feel Namor is or should end up being broody and mostly under achieving in love.

    I feel that years ago the only one that would "change my mind" was Andromeda. I liked her character in the beginning but it didn't seem to be more than a spear carrier with possibilities.

    Now that we've seen a differing history of Namor and her father, well, that gives me a little pause, but

    Namor could do far worse than Andromeda.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  13. #628
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Andromeda is certainly an under appreciated character, there's lots of potential there.

    Whether or not Namor had a functioning romantic relationship, it would not change his brooding nature in my opinion, as romance or lack thereof, has never really been the root of his brooding. He has a deep seeded feeling of forever being on the outside of the society he loves, of being a half breed, a mutant, the ultimate "other".

  14. #629
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby1939 View Post
    The comic not the original painting lol
    Ah, completely missed the 'variant' you posted.

    But, considering the high quality of your collection, I wouldn't have been too surprised.
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  15. #630
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Too much to respond to at this late hour on the Namor Sue conversation.

    I will say that I'm not that familiar with Andromeda, and her story is a bit confusing, but as a love interest ... there's a bit too much of the work place situation, with her being his guardsmen, for my taste.


    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Cian Tomery drew Namor in his thread #drawingnamor for an art demo! Link 1 , Link 2

    (I'm very happy he picked my suggestion!)
    This is awesome! Thanks for suggesting it to him. I love how he transformed his acting to this very superior look. LOL!
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

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