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  1. #136
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    This isn't a continuation of MARVELS -- although we did do a sequel, MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA.

    This is its own thing, exploring the Marvel Universe in a different way.

    But there's at least one connection to MARVELS that I just plotted in...
    Ah I understand now, thanks for clearing that up! I'm so excited to read it when it comes out!
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  2. #137
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Leonard was killed by Tiger Shark who was working with Llyra during The Sub-Mariner (1968) #46 whom he just met in the previous issue, the total amount of time spent with his father was less than a few hours at most and Namor was unconscious for part of it. The main backstory we get from Leo is that he did try to find Fen and Atlantis again for years after but when investors took a chance and funded another southern trip, he unknowingly ran into Namor, and the divers Namor killed in MMC #1 were of his crew. Since then he was blamed for what occurred and no one would fund him, he lost all his money already before the last trip. Which to me is why Leo getting remarried and having another son in the 90s retcon makes no sense if he was so hung up on finding his lost true love he risked everything and was bankrupted. (The Sub-Mariner #44) I just generally disliked the entire Llyra and Llyron arc.

    I would think the McKenzie's would have had more than one son and there would have been cousins etc. however no one seems interested in telling that side of Namor's family and it makes sense more people focus on Atlantis since Namor has much stronger ties to his mother's side than his father's side. Yet even then we barely get any backstory of Atlantis, the most memorable are: Fen, Tha-korr, Thallos, the cousins like Byrrah, seth, dorma. heck we dont even know who dorma's family and parents are or anything! Until KiB: Namor we didn't know anything about Attuma either.
    I'm sure I read that; later '60s and Subby's first full book, probably have most of it in the basement somewhere. I sorta remember.

    In real life people do get over the love of their life and move on. So many decades passed (if real time) between the '20s and the '60s, so why not.

    Still, you're right, the below world would be more fascinating.
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  3. #138
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Leonard was killed by Tiger Shark who was working with Llyra during The Sub-Mariner (1968) #46 whom he just met in the previous issue, the total amount of time spent with his father was less than a few hours at most and Namor was unconscious for part of it. The main backstory we get from Leo is that he did try to find Fen and Atlantis again for years after but when investors took a chance and funded another southern trip, he unknowingly ran into Namor, and the divers Namor killed in MMC #1 were of his crew. Since then he was blamed for what occurred and no one would fund him, he lost all his money already before the last trip. Which to me is why Leo getting remarried and having another son in the 90s retcon makes no sense if he was so hung up on finding his lost true love he risked everything and was bankrupted. (The Sub-Mariner #44) I just generally disliked the entire Llyra and Llyron arc.

    I would think the McKenzie's would have had more than one son and there would have been cousins etc. however no one seems interested in telling that side of Namor's family and it makes sense more people focus on Atlantis since Namor has much stronger ties to his mother's side than his father's side. Yet even then we barely get any backstory of Atlantis, the most memorable are: Fen, Tha-korr, Thallos, the cousins like Byrrah, seth, dorma. heck we dont even know who dorma's family and parents are or anything! Until KiB: Namor we didn't know anything about Attuma either.
    Just reading this is aggravating. lol

  4. #139
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    I'm currently reading the Harrowing of Doom (excellent so far) and wanted to know if there were any other Marvel Novels that featured Namor other than "To Free Atlantis"? I've tried looking online but haven't found any that is as Namor focused, is there somewhere else where I can check if Namor appears for more than a page or so in other novels?
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  5. #140
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I'm currently reading the Harrowing of Doom (excellent so far) and wanted to know if there were any other Marvel Novels that featured Namor other than "To Free Atlantis"? I've tried looking online but haven't found any that is as Namor focused, is there somewhere else where I can check if Namor appears for more than a page or so in other novels?
    LOL! Now, IW. Do you really think current Marvel would give us Namor centric content???

    That said, he may have a few pages in the Civil War prose novel. I think that was written by Stuart Moore.
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  6. #141
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    LOL! Now, IW. Do you really think current Marvel would give us Namor centric content???

    That said, he may have a few pages in the Civil War prose novel. I think that was written by Stuart Moore.
    Lmao, seeing as "To Free Atlantis" was released in the 90s I had a (small) hope maybe other books I couldn't find was also released back when Namor wasn't being used as Phoenix fodder. I will have to check out that civil war novel though, thanks Rev!
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  7. #142
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Lmao, seeing as "To Free Atlantis" was released in the 90s I had a (small) hope maybe other books I couldn't find was also released back when Namor wasn't being used as Phoenix fodder. I will have to check out that civil war novel though, thanks Rev!
    Hey, I would never chew on Namor! He's one tough tuna, lol! All kidding aside, I know what you mean though.

    There is so much to Namor that would be great to learn, although I would always want just a little to remain a mystery.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  8. #143
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Hey, I would never chew on Namor! He's one tough tuna, lol! All kidding aside, I know what you mean though.

    There is so much to Namor that would be great to learn, although I would always want just a little to remain a mystery.
    Ah, good thing you are not inclined to cannibalism! lol. Given that there is so much unexplored history I think some mysteries will still be around. A novel would be a great way to get into more depth with things that would be tougher to show in comics.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  9. #144
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    I really wish KiB Namor #3 was coming out today. I need a bright ray of sunlight.
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  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Ah, good thing you are not inclined to cannibalism! lol. Given that there is so much unexplored history I think some mysteries will still be around. A novel would be a great way to get into more depth with things that would be tougher to show in comics.
    Lol.

    True. But I do wish Marvel would let us know Namor better plus some insight to those things we have mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I really wish KiB Namor #3 was coming out today. I need a bright ray of sunlight.
    You all are my bright ray of sunlight. (Sings song: "You are my sunshine....." )
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  11. #146
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I'm not going back to re-read the thread, but the idea several pages back about descent from Neptune him/itself was intriguing to me.

    I'm mentioned previously that I don't care for the "somehow the Atlanteans were turned into water breathers (magically) and that was that.

    That is really too pat for the MU, in my opinion.
    But as I thought it about it more, maybe it was more like this:

    Maybe a smaller amount of humans, sorcerers and other magical types probably altered a transformation for a much smaller segment of the population.
    By the time of the actual Romans and worship/existence of Neptune, these underwater beings had fully adapted and possibly cross mated with their sort amongst the other altered of the MU; Eternals, Deviants, and yes, maybe some Inhumans. So this could account for some of the differences between various underwater races; lighter / greener skins of Lemurians or others. Since any Inhuman-derived DNA would still need Terrigen to "express", that probably winnowed or leached out fo the main Atlantean/underwater DNA, but who knows?

    My real point would be that in this more dim past, let's say 2 or 3 thousand BC, most humans don't know that the descendants of Atlantis live under the sea, but "Gods" might, especially Neptune.
    So combining various legends we do know about Neptune, the Trident and way back, might it not be more than possible that Neptune procreated with 1 or more Atlantean women, especially even over the ages.
    So this is where Namor get's his lineage from Neptune. Namor spelled backwards is Roman, btw (you all knew that)
    ~ Oberon ~
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  12. #147
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Namor spelled backwards is Roman, btw (you all knew that)
    Why yes, yes we did (but you knew that).

    As to the theory, hmmn, not so sure.

    Marvel has stated (in the past) that humans that are different from Homo Sapiens may be of the genus Homo Mermanis, Homo Magi, Homo Superior, etc. In this instance, Namor would be Homo Mermanis (for his Aquatic Atlantean traits) but also Homo Superior (for his mutant traits)
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 01-26-2021 at 02:02 PM.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  13. #148
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Why yes, yes we did (but you knew that).

    As to the theory, hmmn, not so sure.

    Marvel has stated (in the past) that humans that are different from Homo Sapiens may be of the genus Homo Mermanis, Homo Magi, Homo Superior, etc. In this instance, Namor would be Homo Mermanis (for his Aquatic Atlantean traits) but also Homo Superior (for his mutant traits)
    I understand what Marvel says, but I've only seen vague panels that show this happening. I just don't see it, in the MU I know. These panels seem 3rd person too, so not really a retelling. I realize its probably more me.

    I just think we're dealing with such vast eras of time that given even Marvel reality/evolution, it is more likely the creation of "a new species" was not a snap of the fingers.

    Do you think Namor is a descendant of Neptune and how do you see that happening? Just curious, I am not trying to start an argument.
    ~ Oberon ~
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  14. #149
    Incredible Member Doombot's Avatar
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    For me, the further the Inhumans are from stories of Atlantis the better. The Inhuman backstory is such a convoluted mess, I don't want it spilling over into the Sub-Mariner mythos.

    I do feel there should be some crossover with the Eternals and Deviants considering the Celestials are the cause of the Great Cataclysm. That being said, I do not like the idea of the Eternals, Deviants or Celestials being the source of Atlantean civilization, their technology, nor their ancestry. It would be an interesting story to maybe find a pocket somewhere of an Atlantean/Eternal hybrid lineage, with unique attributes, but I'm not into this idea as a source for their race. I am, however, into the idea of the Eternals and Deviants being somehow involved in the motive for the Celestial attack.

    As for how the Atlanteans became aquatic is another can of worms. I see, perhaps, as they were technologically advanced, yet also magic wielders, some among them could have foreseen the events of the Cataclysm. Some of their scientists could have been wise enough to see clues as to the movements or coming of the Celestials, perhaps even discovering and making contact with the Eternals directly, and the Eternals actually responding due to how advanced the Atlaneans had become, or maybe the Eternals revealed themselves to the Atlanteans and chose to warn them of some potential doom. Also, the mystics of Atlantis could have been seeing visions or deciphering prophesies of this same doom. It is possible the greatest priests and followers of Neptune could commune directly with the god and he chose to warn them as well. Maybe all of this happened, and the Atlantean elite began a project, with all of their mystical and technological might, to develop a way of living in the sea.

    The kink in this narrative is why would any sane people decide to start developing ways to live directly in the sea instead of just making preparations to abandon Atlantis? It certainly worked for the Atlanteans that colonized The Savage Land/Pangea. My only thought on why this would be is that there was a schism in Atlantean society. Some absolutely believed the end of the world was coming, that the Celestials would drown the entire planet and their only hope of survival was the sea, some believed only Atlantis was doomed, some didn't believe any of it at all, and others still decided to emigrate and leave Atlantis for colonies like Pangea.
    Last edited by Doombot; 01-26-2021 at 02:58 PM.

  15. #150
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I understand what Marvel says, but I've only seen vague panels that show this happening. I just don't see it, in the MU I know. These panels seem 3rd person too, so not really a retelling. I realize its probably more me.

    I just think we're dealing with such vast eras of time that given even Marvel reality/evolution, it is more likely the creation of "a new species" was not a snap of the fingers.

    Do you think Namor is a descendant of Neptune and how do you see that happening? Just curious, I am not trying to start an argument.
    Oh I know you are only curious and not trying to start an argument. No problem. I like the question/Idea of Neptune being involved.

    I like the Idea of Neptune and Namor as a descendant and I think he should be prominent in the history, etc. just as Odin, Zeus etc are for Thor and Hercules. But I have never saw Neptune in the Namor comics I read and only rarely even heard Namor mention his name. So I guess I did not think about it as much as I should.

    It would be interesting if Neptune did help start this "new aquatic species" that later got termed Homo Mermanis by human scientists. Maybe Neptune with the Atlantean sorcerers turned the people into aquatic beings?
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

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