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  1. #1261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I agree Dugganīs Polaris can be too juvenile sometimes but then also Scott, Rogue and most of the cast with the exception of Jean and Sunfire. I think Duggan should get more into the bones of the characters and what makes them tick by themselves or as a team and the idea of the "monster of the week" is not helping the title to develop as a new incarnation of the X-men because itīs gives the sensation that thereīs no progress, I hope now after HE appareance things will get more into the development of the main story but I have the perception that not a lot of things will move along until Inferno is done so in the mean time a better handle of the characters and more interaction inside the team would be great.
    Getting down to the character motivations is a very good point. That is the biggest question I have in terms of Lorna's story. Why are you there with the X-Men? What do you really feel about the new mutant homeland given the fate of your last mutant homeland?

    On Polaris front I have noticed this juvenile take can become an issue if itīs not addressed Lorna is a veteran X-man with a PHD under her belt so it could come sometiems into the conversation of the characters between missions and I donīt think she understimated Luminous, it was just that sheīs too powerful and needs to be taken down by two people at the same time, she can control probabilities like Wanda and is quicker than Quicksilver but most of the team was defeated imo so I think they were just not ready to attack HE. It will be interesting when we see the inevitable showdown when they defeat his team.

    Now about Lorna and Magneto family ties, well, she indeed was going to be the daughter of Magneto, in fact, even when Claremont wrote that scene of Magneto denying her being his daughter, he had plans at the end of his run to reveal they were indeed family, of course, I donīt think he had the same thing in mind as the one that ended happening because he had to leave the title and a lot of his subplots were left open for other writers to tackle and Lorna was no longer thought of as Magnetoīs child until they played a little with the idea when Lorna accepted going with Magneto to Genosha to train her powers, despite them being not recognized family he tried to get closer to her emotionally speaking than he normally does with other members of his teams and when she opposed him during Dark Seduction and she was send out of Genosha along with Pietro and Wanda, it was clear, at least when it comes to subtext, he considered her his daughter, or at least close enough, bassically him choosing his powers and his control over Genosha even if this put him on bad terms with Pietro, Wanda and Lorna was the choice he made at the time and he later regretted greatly during HoM, in fact we could see his stories with them post HoM as him making up for this decision in particular.
    I don't mind she lost to Luminous. But, I would like to know where her head is these days.

    In terms of Lorna and Genosha it was interesting because they ran the storyline from the prospective of Bobby and Pietro looking in at Lorna and Magneto wondering what was going on. That misled alot of fans at the time.

    Sadly, Lorna was rarely depicted as a character who could think for herself consistently until we got to the fallout of the destruction of the island. That scene really encompasses how the character was often depicted as needing other characters (mainly her boyfriend) to be her guide rather then having her own opinions. After was when she finally started at least for awhile thinking for herself. I don't know if she is thinking for herself of late as I don't know what is the motivational forces behind the character?


    Then it came Morrison and Austen take on Lorna post Genosha massacre, I am very critical of their work but they made the right call here, because they rescued this subplot and gave it a deeper meaning having Lorna and Magneto share the experience of seeing Genosha destroyed and use their powers to try to rescue what little was left, it was a nice way of confirming their family ties and then came the DNA test, Bendis including her on HoM and later Peter David with the origin story on X-factor and it all makes sense,imo, this was no retcon, it was more a story that was a subplot for too many years until marvel decided to make it official.

    I tend to think of it as a story that was much more convoluted then needed to be told and took awhile to get to where it needed to be yes.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-24-2021 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #1262
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Getting down to the character motivations is a very good point. That is the biggest question I have in terms of Lorna's story. Why are you there with the X-Men? What do you really feel about the new mutant homeland given the fate of your last mutant homeland?
    Agreed, I think Hickman took the first steps towards having Lorna question if the situation of Krakoa is or was indeed better than Genosha, she did this by asking Magneto about the resurrection protocols as well as asking Scott why he felt so hopeful so I expect or hope Duggan gets on this line of thinking for her.

    I don't mind she lost to Luminous. But, I would like to know where her head is these days.
    Agreed

    In terms of Lorna and Genosha it was interesting because they ran the storyline from the prospective of Bobby and Pietro looking in at Lorna and Magneto wondering what was going on. That misled alot of fans at the time.
    Exactly, some fans even guessed they were becoming lovers and both Pietro and Bobby suspected this but no, only Lorna and Erik knew what was going on and thatīs actually a good narrative tool, to know them from how other people see them.

    Sadly, Lorna was rarely depicted as a character who could think for herself consistently until we got to the fallout of the destruction of the island. That scene really encompasses how the character was often depicted as needing other characters (mainly her boyfriend) to be her guide rather then having her own opinions. After was when she finally started at least for awhile thinking for herself. I don't know if she is thinking for herself of late as I don't know what is the motivational forces behind the character?
    Yes I hated that she brought Alex, even the first time I read the issue it did not make sense to me, because he was not even there and this was a very personal choice for Lorna and her alone, I would have expected her to say, I canīt support you anymore or something like that and not bring Alex when he was not even part of the story and this is exactly why I would like to see Duggan digging into her motivations for being part of the new incarnation of X-men, what does she want to do? just some few pages of instrospection from her thinking over those issues would be great.


    I tend to think of it as a story that was much more convoluted then needed to be told and took awhile to get to where it needed to be yes.
    Yes, too convoluted is the word
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-24-2021 at 06:34 PM.
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  3. #1263
    Spectacular Member Magnetic's Avatar
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    Did Lorna ever meet Joseph?

  4. #1264
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    Did Lorna ever meet Joseph?
    I can't remember but this makes me think with all the twins in the family i'm surprised they never went the twin approach with lorna/joseph rather than the clone magneto route.
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  5. #1265
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    No, Lorna and Joseph never meet but he did meet Pietro and yes, them being related or twins would have been a better way to solve Josephīs mystery but the problem, I guess was that he was supposed to be amnesiac Magneto but the fans didnīt like him or his characterization so he was changed into being Erikīs clone by Astra. So him being an actual brother of Lorna and Son to Magneto would have brought in interesting possibilities.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-24-2021 at 06:45 PM.
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  6. #1266

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    Did Lorna ever meet Joseph?
    No Lorna never interacted with Joseph. She never even interacted with Exodus. She had one line with Cortez. One line with Frenzy. Writers outside of her early Genosha issues have kept Lorna a tiny bit player in Magneto's sphere not directly interacting with the rest of it.

    Joseph and Lorna would unlike Magneto/Lorna present a chance for a great fight without politics involved.

    only Lorna and Erik knew what was going on and thatīs actually a good narrative tool, to know them from how other people see them.
    They both had self interest driving them in different ways in that story line. Though the mini effectively wimped out on the core theme the early New X-Men and UXM issues had going for them.

    It did have my favorite headgear for Lorna.

    Last edited by jmc247; 09-24-2021 at 09:17 PM.

  7. #1267
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    They both had self interest driving them in different ways in that story line. Though the mini effectively wimped out on the core theme the early New X-Men and UXM issues had going for them.

    It did have my favorite headgear for Lorna.
    Agreed their first interactions were very nuanced with both of them having clear reasons for their alliances and actually being honest with those reasons without making either of them OOC or having to force the story and the Dark Seduction went back into basis: good girl vs bad guy but I liked the beggining of the story and you are right that head wear is one of her best, looked like a more modern take on her original head wear. I like her actual uniform on X-men but I think she should always have a headwear.
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  8. #1268

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    I don't mind Lorna having lost to Luminous, or the concept of Lorna losing in a fight in general, as long as it's done respectfully. With proper writing, the loser in a fight can even be the one you feel the most for and they can come away looking better than the character that beat them.

    As I said before, I think Lorna losing to Luminous in the latest issue was fine considering all the characters that fought lost their fights aside from Synch, so she wasn't the "odd woman out."

    The problem for Lorna is that in the past, writers treated her like the resident punching bag that's supposed to be repeatedly degraded while the other characters get to have respect and empathy for what they've gone through, if they're not the one winning at everything. Avoiding that kind of treatment is one of the important things for anyone writing Lorna to keep in mind.
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  9. #1269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Darkest of Nights managed to do a lot starting with introducing Lorna to Wanda and Pietro as family for the first time and onward toward Lorna’s pointed critique of old Xavierism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed their first interactions were very nuanced with both of them having clear reasons for their alliances and actually being honest with those reasons without making either of them OOC or having to force the story and the Dark Seduction went back into basis: good girl vs bad guy but I liked the beggining of the story and you are right that head wear is one of her best, looked like a more modern take on her original head wear. I like her actual uniform on X-men but I think she should always have a headwear.
    Does a headgear actually work with that outfit?

    Trying to revert to the good vs evil trope did neither a service. I also know they have trouble defining the characters and summaries often fall back on that nonsense as do less then quality creators.

    Above is an incorrect summary of course on all sorts of levels. We know the first time she called herself Polaris.

    More complex character summaries tend to fall back on her being unstable or often possessed and Magneto is complex and survived many genocides. It makes me miss the summaries of 15 years ago when they were both complex.

    Modern fans tend to be much more complex and discerning even the very young once then they are often given credit before. They come up with really cool videos as well.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-24-2021 at 10:10 PM.

  10. #1270
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Does a headgear actually work with that outfit?
    Probably it would not fit her outfit so it would need to be modified but it also depends on the design

    Going back to the good vs evil trope with them did neither a service. I also know they have trouble defining the characters and summaries often fall back on that nonsense as do less then quality creators.

    Above is an incorrect summary of course on all sorts of levels. We know the first time she called herself Polaris.

    More complex character summaries tend to fall back on her being unstable or often possessed and Magneto is complex and survived many genocides. It makes me miss the summaries of 15 years ago when they were both complex.
    Yes I really liked the last two summaries, very well done and to the point and yes, I know I may sound like a broken record but they just need to keep the nuance and complexity, I would understand them going for the good vs evil angle if they didnīt have any previous interaction but the fact is that their relationship on Genosha was tons much more nuanced and complex than itīs today, because they were written as people before anything else and that also leads to better storylines that suit their characters allows them their own journey. This is my main worry with Trial of Magneto and Dugganīs juvenile take on Lorna, that this will become their go to characterization for her and her interaction with Erik, erasing most of the complexity of their previous interactions in one step and you know itīs bad when stories like Dark Seduction, that indeed were written to push them back into the good vs evil trope, still has more nuanced moments between them than ToM.

    I hope if we keep talking about it we can avoid this. Right now they are on very good places narratively speaking, Lorna on X-men and Magneto on Inferno and Sword so maybe marvel and Leah and Duggan do have a better plan in mind for them than they have shown so far on ToM but still I canīt help but worry because this has happened before and I definitely prefer them being written complex than as caricatures of themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I don't mind Lorna having lost to Luminous, or the concept of Lorna losing in a fight in general, as long as it's done respectfully. With proper writing, the loser in a fight can even be the one you feel the most for and they can come away looking better than the character that beat them.

    As I said before, I think Lorna losing to Luminous in the latest issue was fine considering all the characters that fought lost their fights aside from Synch, so she wasn't the "odd woman out."
    I think Luminous could become a good foil for Lorna, given how she symbolically took her place after the retcon and seems to have a strong relationship with her own father, if handled well it would be interesting to see how they relate to each other given their similarities and differences.

    The problem for Lorna is that in the past, writers treated her like the resident punching bag that's supposed to be repeatedly degraded while the other characters get to have respect and empathy for what they've gone through, if they're not the one winning at everything. Avoiding that kind of treatment is one of the important things for anyone writing Lorna to keep in mind.

    Agreed completely, lest avoid this from now on.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-24-2021 at 10:09 PM.
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  11. #1271

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    This is my main worry with Trial of Magneto and Dugganīs juvenile take on Lorna, that this will become their go to characterization for her and her interaction with Erik, erasing most of the complexity of their previous interactions in one step and you know itīs bad when stories like Dark Seduction, that indeed were written to push them back into the good vs evil trope, still has more nuanced moments between them than ToM.
    I fully expected before going into Trial of Magneto their relationship to be trashed though right now it well surpassed what I was expecting in terms of damage. I do think there will be some more positive bow tie put on things at the end, but who knows the left over damage, certainly without a swerve any believable trust is destroyed and that is just the start.

    As for Lorna and X-Men her urban princess persona as long as she is feeling in her 20s it isn't a problem. The other issue will be if she can she get deadly serious when she absolutely needs to be.

    I hope if we keep talking about it we can avoid this. Right now they are on very good places narratively speaking, Lorna on X-men and Magneto on Inferno and Sword so maybe marvel and Leah and Duggan do have a better plan in mind for them than they have shown so far on ToM but still I canīt help but worry because this has happened before and I definitely prefer them being written complex than as caricatures of themselves.
    I have the feeling that Magneto will be quite complex in Inferno. Not sure about Lorna. Though I do wonder if its building towards a moment that will turn Lorna's world on her head.

    Yes I really liked the last two summaries, very well done and to the point and yes, I know I may sound like a broken record but they just need to keep the nuance and complexity, I would understand them going for the good vs evil angle if they didnīt have any previous interaction but the fact is that their relationship on Genosha was tons much more nuanced and complex than itīs today, because they were written as people before anything else and that also leads to better storylines that suit their characters allows them their own journey.
    I would agree with that. If for instance the MCU as well has different ideas in the future about their direction such as Lorna as a teen who hates her bad dad there are ways of paying homage to such a concept without throwing out the baby with the bath water in the comics
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-25-2021 at 12:00 PM.

  12. #1272
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I fully expected before going into Trial of Magneto their relationship to be trashed though right now it well surpassed what I was expecting in terms of damage. I do think there will be some more positive bow tie put on things at the end, but who knows the left over damage, certainly without a swerve any believable trust is destroyed and that is just the start.
    Agreed this is why I am expecting Duggan take on all this after itīs done because it will put the basis of their future interactions so I have hope something can be keep of them and maybe even better interactions if they bring soma of their old relationship back.

    As for Lorna and X-Men her urban princess persona as long as she is feeling in her 20s it isn't a problem. The other issue will be if she can she get deadly serious when she absolutely needs to be.
    Exactly, she needs to be able to get serious when the situation calls for it while keeping her more playful person.

    I have the feeling that Magneto will be quite complex in Inferno. Not sure about Lorna. Though I do wonder if its building towards a moment that will turn Lorna's world on her head.
    Hickman has a good handle of his character and so far Duggan has given his book a light touch but now that Evolutionary and Luminous are here I hope he also does a deeper exploration on Lorna, because Evolutionary always had a kind of link to Magneto and they formed an alliance to solve M-Day and Luminous could serve be a foil for Lorna so I hope Duggan starts to get deeper into this issues.


    I would agree with that. If for instance the MCU as well has different ideas in the future about their direction such as Lorna as a teen who hates her bad dad there are ways of paying homage to such a concept without throwing out the [B]baby with the bath water in the comics
    Agreed " Throw out the baby with the bath water" is precisely the expression I would use to LeahÂīs despiction of them on ToM the MCU should not do the same when it gets to them.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-25-2021 at 03:00 PM.
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  13. #1273
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Is there any reason Lorna's hair is like this? This uniform is very beautiful, it's one of my favorites

  14. #1274

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    greed this is why I am expecting Duggan take on all this after itīs done because it will put the basis of their future interactions so I have hope something can be keep of them and maybe even better interactions if they bring soma of their old relationship back.
    Duggan almost certainly has been collaborating with Williams on some key points in regards to the Trial of Magneto and X-Men stuff. I think she will leave Magneto and Lorna usable by other writers on some level by the end. I don't know if she will repair any of the damage though.

    Exactly, she needs to be able to get serious when the situation calls for it while keeping her more playful person.
    When the situation really calls for it yes.

    Agreed " Throw out the baby with the bath water" is precisely the expression I would use to LeahÂīs despiction of them on ToM the MCU should not do the same when it gets to them.
    The real question is going to come if a tearful 'we make up' moment is enough to undo the last year of damage between them. I would say no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Is there any reason Lorna's hair is like this? This uniform is very beautiful, it's one of my favorites
    Energy hair started as a 90s artistic choice to show when she was powered up, angry, and determined.



    My suspicion is they were influenced by the Fatal Attractions era of Magneto art when he was really angry he was radiating power.

    The artist in the middle of her Genosha arc came up with the idea of full time energy hair, but it wasn't there at the beginning of the ac nor at the end.

    Last edited by jmc247; 09-25-2021 at 04:11 PM.

  15. #1275
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Energy hair started as a 90s artistic choice to show when she was powered up, angry, and determined.



    My suspicion is they were influenced by the Fatal Attractions era of Magneto art when he was really angry he was radiating power.

    The artist in the middle of her Genosha arc came up with the idea of full time energy hair, but it wasn't there at the beginning of the ac nor at the end.

    This title very well exploits Polaris' electromagnetic powers, also at the time of the X factor, especially when Alex left the team.

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