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  1. #571
    Amazing Member Angleman70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Even if she only gets a year, a lot hinges on a) what happens with her during that year, and b) how others at Marvel behave around and after. Lorna on the new X-Men team shows a ton of promise, especially with the buzz generated around the vote, but it won't amount to anything if she doesn't have both a depiction that works for her and support needed for it.

    Popularity of Lorna through Gifted is a good example of what can happen in a year. The comic won't have as much chance to tell stories with her as a show does, but a powerful, impactful story that captures her complexity and history can be enough. Similarly, while Killing Joke was horrible for Batgirl and I'd urge people not to read it (and I say that as someone who actually did), it was powerful enough at capturing Joker's complexity and history to make an impression and launch Joker into a very iconic status for decades. Of course, it wasn't Killing Joke all by its lonesome that managed to pull it off for him. He needed support and usage beyond a single story too.


    Though there's also another lesson to be learned with Killing Joke: overstaying nostalgia. It was good for its time for Joker. It was bad for Batgirl, and it's increasingly recognized as such with each passing year. Joker really doesn't need it anymore, and even if he did, it would require a major overhaul in its treatment of Batgirl. DC half-recognized this with the Killing Joke film... then failed as they decided the best way to "do better" was to throw in a relationship with Batman, as if making the emotional stakes higher for another male character somehow improved treatment of the female character who ends up getting shot and degraded. It sits at a 39% critic rating (out of 41 reviews) and 51% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes right now for a reason.

    Exactly! As we’ve all mentioned more than once on here, it is crucial that she is level headed and showcasing her as a powerhouse. We also want her to ditch Alex permanently, no more insanity or mental problems. Her relationships with her fellow X-men and her father should solidify her as someone who has moved on from her traumas. Those traumas need not be forgotten though.

  2. #572

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angleman70 View Post
    Exactly! As we’ve all mentioned more than once on here, it is crucial that she is level headed and showcasing her as a powerhouse. We also want her to ditch Alex permanently, no more insanity or mental problems. Her relationships with her fellow X-men and her father should solidify her as someone who has moved on from her traumas. Those traumas need not be forgotten though.
    I stop short of "permanently" with Havok because I think it can be salvaged, like a lot of things in her history. The problem is Marvel hasn't been doing what's necessary with Lorna that would get her to a place where that relationship could be salvaged. They've just been forcing reminders of the relationship every chance they get, as if that will somehow make it not toxic. If they actually want the relationship to be worth respecting, they need to put in the work, and the time it takes to get there.

    Similarly, Lorna having mental health problems is fine if it's depicted respectfully. PTSD doesn't go away, it sticks with you. But it ends up being bad if it's done in a way that ignores her past development, or if it's misrepresented in a way that uses it as an excuse to justify her not doing things that people at Marvel don't like the idea of her doing. Trauma and mental health issues can be valuable to story and character if they're done right - if the goal is genuinely understanding and delving into the character rather than treating her trauma like a handy plot device.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

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  3. #573

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    I have argued her pathos as a survivor of Genosha did for at least two years enhance the characters story. But, today one has to accept that pathos is long dead and will not be resurrected in any significant way after it didn't even come up for her when making a new mutant homeland that she happens to live in.

    Lorna's full issue breakdown over Rockslide depicted the character as one that is in the end is weak and emotionally unfit to be amongst a team (any team) out in the field and should be kept in Krakoa away from bad things. The issue did not depict Lorna as a traumatized veteran warrior and instead cast her as a mentally and emotionally weak teenager.

    It was in all honestly the best argument that could be made for writers avoiding the issue of trauma with the character and I don't say that lightly.
    Last edited by jmc247; 05-16-2021 at 08:42 AM.

  4. #574

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    I will agree that if the writers are completely incapable of writing trauma respectfully with Lorna, then it's better not to use it for the time being. If they don't have the talent or compassion to do it right, then it's better to not touch on it than to botch it. But then they should really hire someone who's capable at some point. They were able to revive Lorna being Magneto's daughter once they had writers capable of doing things with it.
    Last edited by salarta; 05-16-2021 at 08:53 AM.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  5. #575

  6. #576
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    AIPT: In the X-Men Election, Polaris beat out a lot of other mutants. I’m curious, knowing that Lorna’s the character the most voters want to see on the X-Men, do you feel eXtra pressure to do her justice as her new writer?

    Gerry: I don’t feel the pressure of fans, just my own expectations and that of my collaborators. If CB [Cebulski] and Jordan are happy, and my artists are happy, the fans have every shot at happiness. I can’t unmake a fan of Polaris, I can only make them not a fan of mine, and I’m only trying to deliver ideas to my artist to turn into moonshots. So, yes, sure, as you said. Lots of pressure in the Polaris business.

  7. #577
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I'm gonna miss this design.

    I may not be David's biggest fan, nor care for his Gala out for Lorna, but I adore this costume he created for Polaris. Going to miss the halo too. Hopefully we'll still see it as a part of Lorna's Krakoa rotation.

  8. #578
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    "Gerry: I don’t feel the pressure of fans, just my own expectations and that of my collaborators. If CB [Cebulski] and Jordan are happy, and my artists are happy, the fans have every shot at happiness. I can’t unmake a fan of Polaris, I can only make them not a fan of mine, and I’m only trying to deliver ideas to my artist to turn into moonshots. So, yes, sure, as you said. Lots of pressure in the Polaris business."

    My favourite answer in the entire interview.
    He's 100% correct.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  9. #579

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    AIPT: In the X-Men Election, Polaris beat out a lot of other mutants. I’m curious, knowing that Lorna’s the character the most voters want to see on the X-Men, do you feel eXtra pressure to do her justice as her new writer?

    Gerry: I don’t feel the pressure of fans, just my own expectations and that of my collaborators. If CB [Cebulski] and Jordan are happy, and my artists are happy, the fans have every shot at happiness. I can’t unmake a fan of Polaris, I can only make them not a fan of mine, and I’m only trying to deliver ideas to my artist to turn into moonshots. So, yes, sure, as you said. Lots of pressure in the Polaris business.
    There's a certain level of "you can't please everyone" that's certainly true, especially when it comes to Lorna's history.

    Over the years, I've seen fans of all sorts of franchises that insisted bad work was good actually. I remember one Soul Calibur fan that insisted Soul Calibur V was perfect and said they wouldn't get future Soul Calibur games if Sophitia returned. SCV having been a game that used a timeskip as an excuse to replace most of the female roster, and its director claiming Taki was "too old" to be a ninja even as older male characters like Siegfried and Mitsurugi were in. That game sold half of what Soul Calibur IV did and mostly killed the franchise again, turning it into a free-to-play exploit until Soul Calibur VI released 6 years later. That next game ignored SCV (actually being set during past games as a soft reboot), brought back most of the female roster, and subsequently sold better than SCV.

    Similarly, there are periods of Lorna's history that some people will insist are perfect in spite of major problems. There are a lot of different ideas of Lorna. Decades worth of poor treatment have enshrined that poor treatment in nostalgia. When some fans want progress, and other fans want the past, a writer is inevitably going to upset somebody.

    But I'll also add that directors/editors/writers/etc can be fans and go both ways too. They're not neutral parties. The director of Soul Calibur V that I mentioned before made that game happen with a Facebook campaign at the time to prove interest in the franchise still existed, and he proceeded to do things he personally wanted that hurt the franchise. Austen often gets lambasted by X-Men fans for missteps caused by doing things he personally wanted to do, with the exception of Lorna because he actually looked at the character and built from her Genosha experience rather than catering to what nostalgic fans would've wanted. Usually Lorna under Austen is dismissed only as part of a blanket "everything Austen is instantly bad, no thought required" attitude.

    If the goal is to do right by Lorna - to look at her history and development, understand who she is and what she's been through, and depict that as well as able - then it should work out well. If the goal is just to advance an agenda or please people who have them, or to use her as a means to an end, then it won't. I do think Lorna having won the vote adds pressure. In a good way. Pressure to put care into how she's used. As opposed to thinking nobody cares and there's no reason to put any effort into doing well by her.

    As I've said before, the preview for the first X-Men issue looks promising. I don't know what else is to come, but I hope it pans out in a positive manner this time.
    Last edited by salarta; 05-17-2021 at 09:48 AM.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  10. #580

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    I put X-Men on my pull list for an online comic store. One can buy variant covers for issues directly online from Midtown comic shop. Comixology has a digital pull list and I have it pre-ordered there as well. I was hoping to learn more about the coming run and Duggan's take on Lorna before pulling the trigger, but how could I say no to those beautiful pencils and a bit of Lorna feeling aggressiveness bleeding out from the pages.
    Last edited by jmc247; 05-19-2021 at 08:44 AM.

  11. #581

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    I read through more of the X-Men Monday Duggan interview. I didn't have much chance yesterday. There's something nobody's really mentioned yet, but I think bears mentioning.

    AIPT: Looking at this new X-Men team, there are a few characters who have worked together before, but this is definitely a line-up we’ve never seen — with a lot of big personalities. We know they’re dedicated to saving the world… but they’re also an X-Men team. What can you tease about their dynamic?

    Gerry: The world needs the X-Men, we can talk more about this stuff as this year progresses. They volunteered. To fight for this world.
    They volunteered. That's important because it confirms Lorna's on the team by choice, rather than not wanting to be there but doing it anyway. Gives a good positive idea of where she's coming from going into the book.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  12. #582
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    r X-MEN LEGENDS #6
    In August Peter David will wrap up his revisit to his classic X-FACTOR run with the help of fan-favorite artist Todd Nauck. Here is the first exclusive look at the solicit and cover for X-MEN LEGENDS #6

    WOLFSBANE UNLEASHED!
    Renegade mutants have taken hostages at the Latverian embassy…and DR. DOOM isn’t happy about it! And with one of X-FACTOR’S own in their clutches, it’s going to be a super-powered battle on multiple fronts as innocent lives hang in the balance!

  13. #583

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    X-Men #2
    GERRY DUGGAN (W) • PEPE LARRAZ (A/C)
    VARIANT COVER BY MAHMUD ASRAR
    Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage COVER BY INHYUK LEE
    NEW LINE-UP TRADING CARD VARIANT COVER BY TBA
    ALWAYS BET ON X!
    As threats hurtle toward the Earth from all sides, the fearless X-Men fight a seemingly unstoppable wave of annihilation…but even more dangerous threats lurk in the darkness, ready to strike in secret.
    32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
    I did pretty well guessing whose hands were who from the Jordan White interview art a few weeks ago. Lorna was the easiest pick. I like she is also holding a coffee cup.

    Last edited by jmc247; 05-20-2021 at 07:30 AM.

  14. #584
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Love Lorna's black nail polish and coffee cup! <3 <3 <3

    Great covers!

  15. #585
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    other cover with lorna

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