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  1. #31
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    Like most I really didn't like the fact that Lorna was mond controlled in this issue like is it sp hard to intentionally avoid what has intentionally become a cliche for Lorna amd Rachel. Heck let one of the guys get mind-controlled for once.

  2. #32
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Like most I really didn't like the fact that Lorna was mond controlled in this issue like is it sp hard to intentionally avoid what has intentionally become a cliche for Lorna amd Rachel. Heck let one of the guys get mind-controlled for once.
    LOL..Northstar's also already been mindcontrolled

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Polaris and Rachel are the heavy hitters on X-Factor. The rest aren't as powerful, so between the two of them she picked Lorna. Williams could have picked JP, but his power isn't on their level IMO. It's disappointing. Rachel was mind-controlled three times (Gold, Red, Extermination) so she's had it worse, but Leah should have tried to come up with something else that doesn't rely on an overdone trope. It hasn't been too long since X-Men: Blue where Polaris faced Malice, so I'm not looking forward to these next couple of issues.

    I'm also tired of having writers have Polaris "cut loose" only when she's influenced by something else. Writers never seem to have Lorna show out when she's acting of her own volition. When they need to show the audience how powerful, and deadly she can be, writers always do so via mind-control.
    Last edited by Soulsword323; 01-12-2021 at 04:33 PM.

  4. #34

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    I haven't had much to say of late because Lorna has been for years now very much stuck repeating a bygone era she evolved and grew out of into a much much more interesting character nearly two decades ago. Lorna of this run is suffering from just about the exact same core problems as she did under Bunn.

    Both runs were heavy on the nostalgia for 90s plot themes. She has a bit more personality in this run. But, the central theme they crafted for both runs was of Lorna as as a generic female heroine who as you said is only allowed to show she can be powerful or deadly when she is possessed.

    I can tolerate the occasional Havok plug (something some here are more vocal about) if they would return to the days of depicting Lorna as closer to a bad assed morally ambiguous character who as Logan said in 2004 that he was happy to have on their side, because it wasn't a given.

    The Gifted season one did this very well. Lorna in that season was popular and critically acclaimed for a reason. She was an amazingly complex and fascinating character. Austen's run did this well too. Forget about what one might think of the love triangle or square or Austen overall as a writer. The core idea of Lorna as more of a morally complex x-woman dealing with legacy issues and a genocide worked in his run so much better then her as a one note heroine who gets possessed a lot.

    Lorna should be a character that can come to serious blows with her team over some issue without her being possessed.
    Last edited by jmc247; 02-01-2021 at 12:39 PM.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Polaris and Rachel are the heavy hitters on X-Factor. The rest aren't as powerful, so between the two of them she picked Lorna. Williams could have picked JP, but his power isn't on their level IMO. It's disappointing. Rachel was mind-controlled three times (Gold, Red, Extermination) so she's had it worse, but Leah should have tried to come up with something else that doesn't rely on an overdone trope. It hasn't been too long since X-Men: Blue where Polaris faced Malice, so I'm not looking forward to these next couple of issues.

    I'm also tired of having writers have Polaris "cut loose" only when she's influenced by something else. Writers never seem to have Lorna show out when she's acting of her volition. When they need to show the audience how powerful, and deadly she can be, writers always do so via mind-control.
    My views I'm about to say may be constrained by not knowing enough about Rachel. Saying that in advance so Rachel fans who may see this know I'm not dismissing anything over their fave.

    It seems to me that each of the women have too much mind control in their histories but in different ways. Rachel's cases seem to be too many in more recent years (aside from the Hound thing when she was introduced), whereas Lorna's cases are more entrenched by horrendous nostalgia and repetition. That seems to result in it being a coin flip situation at its base. But in this specific case, I think the cause being Siryn led to a decision to use Lorna due to shared history.

    Yet at the same time, the vibe I've been picking up is that Williams has respect for Rachel and not much (if any) for Lorna. Hence we get scenes like what I posted on the previous page, where Lorna acts OOC ignorant and inexperienced for Rachel to "playfully" mock Lorna while talking herself up. It's just further proof to me that not only should Lorna not be on this book, but there's nothing about it that even needs her. Rachel is this book's designated heavy hitter that people at Marvel actually care about.

    Heck, I'm starting to question if Lorna can even be considered a "heavy hitter" on this book given her usage so far primarily consists of getting "owned" by other characters. How can a character be considered a heavy hitter if she's being written as repeatedly failing at what she's trying to do and getting ridiculed for it by other characters on the book (Rachel, Magneto, now Siryn)? It's more accurate to call Lorna the team clown at this point.



    On the cutting loose portion, I think mind control stories provide an opportunity to show what characters can do if their powers/connections are misused. But it doesn't, and shouldn't, mean the character can't be powerful and dangerous when not being controlled/possessed. If the only time we see a character "cut loose" is when they're controlled/possessed, then it all it does is falsely imply the character inherently sucks for anything except being exploited by other characters.

    I'm going to use other media for an example. There's an episode of the show Camelot called Igraine, where Morgan takes on Igraine's form and pretends to be her in Camelot. It's not possession/mind control, but it's very close by way of identity theft. Here's what the episode does right: Igraine isn't JUST a means to an end. She's not JUST a plot device for Morgan to exploit. We see what Morgan experiences while captive and trying to escape while Morgan's pretending to be her. We see a day in the life of Igraine as Morgan experiences it, and just how much influence Igraine has on so many people, particularly a child she has a close bond with. For a brief time, Igraine's nature even by the residual of how people at Camelot see and treat her looks like it almost manages to change Morgan herself for the better.

    With that episode, what we see is how powerful Igraine is - even as a supporting character - by who she is. Not just her position she holds at Camelot, or what powers she may have. We see how she touches and inspires people, right up to the person who hates her most while posing as her.

    This is the sort of thing that Marvel always fails to understand about mind control/possession style stories and Lorna. If a villain's just exploiting her powers or her status as someone's girlfriend/daughter/team member, it's a terrible story and poor usage of the character. It can only be good if the character's value is respected in the process.

    Siryn calling Lorna "dumb" as she walks off like a puppet ain't it, and doesn't bode well for the next issue(s).

    P.S. - Also these kind of stories are only good if they're used sparingly. Not if they're done every couple years like clockwork.
    Last edited by salarta; 01-12-2021 at 12:57 PM.
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  6. #36
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    When has Lorna been "owned" by other characters in this book? A playful conversation with a fellow teammate? An encounter with a person she thought was her longtime friend but actually is a irish death goddess who possessed her friend's body? None of these situations are anything close to an attempt to humiliate the character. Are characters not allowed to be taken by surprise or have banter with their friends?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    When has Lorna been "owned" by other characters in this book? A playful conversation with a fellow teammate? An encounter with a person she thought was her longtime friend but actually is a irish death goddess who possessed her friend's body? None of these situations are anything close to an attempt to humiliate the character. Are characters not allowed to be taken by surprise or have banter with their friends?
    Eh I'm kinda 50/50 it wasn't until Lorna flexed on Morrigan and reminded her that she was a "big gun" that Morrigan decided to eliminate a threat but if Leah was gonna have her be mindcontrolled I would have liked a little resistance at least she pretty much just immediately falls under Morrigan's thrall which really underscores the pretty awesome "big gun" moment.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    I think Lorna being mind-controlled is a very deliberate choice on Leah's part. Its been a major source of her trauma thru her appearances over the years and this last issue made sure to highlight what her friendship w/ Terry mean to her - the fact that a close friend is forcing her to re-live one of her worst experiences feels like a catalyst for her arc .

    She's also had the most visible arc over the course of the run out of any of her co-stars, I dont see the book as detrimental to her at all. She has to be challenged to develop as a character so I'm chill w/ it

  9. #39
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Leah's been very open about the fact that Lorna's the team member that she didn't choose for the book but also that she's the one that she's the most fascinated by because of that. I don't think that Siryn mind controlling Lorna is going to go by simply; it's going to tie into the overall story arc of the character going forward super nicely. Also, I don't think that there should have been any resistance because then it undercuts Siryn as a character and if either of them needs more help at the moment it's Siryn.

    Just because Lorna has had a past of possession and mind control doesn't mean that those stories have to be entirely avoided in the future and the same thing goes for Rachel or Aurora or Northstar all of whom have had stories about that in the past. Yes, it's a little more prevalent with Lorna but what that means is that they have to be more careful about it and I trust Leah to be that person to be so careful. Her Lorna has had a lovely voice since the book began. I think that if, come April or May whenever this arc comes to a close, Lorna comes out looking like a loser or anything like that then we can rightfully criticize Leah for doing this and editorial for allowing it to happen.

    But tbh? I doubt that she will.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  10. #40
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I don't think Leah cares for Polar Bear at all. In the book, her chest is small and and her costume is green. Like weak grass. Let's face it. Writers will never respect Lornola or her history.
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  11. #41
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    I don't think Leah cares for Polar Bear at all. In the book, her chest is small and and her costume is green. Like weak grass. Let's face it. Writers will never respect Lornola or her history.
    Leah respected Lorna story of being brain washed. I simply doesn't care about her bad writing Lorna or whatever she is writing on X-factor. The worse book on the line

    try to be nice next time
    Last edited by Rang10; 01-12-2021 at 04:39 PM.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    This could all be leading to an awesome development for Lorna. That's very true, as none of us know what exactly Leah has planned. I'm just gauging things based on what we've seen thus far, and how they seem to be playing out to me. It's speculation, and I would be very happy to be wrong. I've been off before.

    However, as someone who has a lot of love for Lorna, I get tired of seeing these retreads of too familiar plot beats. I know that's a common problem with comics, but it's especially prevalent with a character like Polaris. Who doesn't get enough attention or development, and when she does, writers love to bring up two things: Havok, and mind-control. I understand why writers do so, as they want to address the problems Lorna has in an attempt to break the cycle. The problem is that it just leaves Lorna is the never ending circle. Where we are constantly reminded of the issues she faces, without really doing much to move her own character forward. I honestly don't feel we need to see another writer attempting to deal with Polaris' struggles with possession. The one thing I appreciated about Bunn was that he handled that pretty well in X-Men Blue.

    This is still at the beginning of Leah's tenure with X-Factor, and I'm still enjoying the book personally, but I had hoped she would avoid this for Lorna altogether. I even said in the previous thread that she would avoid this trope with Polaris, and she ultimately did not. So it is disappointing. I hope this can be a catalyst for something great for Lorna, but I wish that Williams could have done so in a different matter.

    I'm all for Lorna figuring out more about herself, but I don't think every writer needs to keep retouching on the same plots over and over.

  13. #43
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I hate it bc Bunn JUST did this in X-men Blue not that long ago. She was able to resist and overcome her mind control of Malice so to see her get mind controlled yet again is a disappointment. I wish I could say she will likely resist Morrigan in the next issue but I doubt she will be written as that strong

  14. #44
    Amazing Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    I dropped the book last issue so I don’t know the full details of #6 but from what I’ve seen X-Factor is still bad and worse for Lorna. Why does she need to flex that she’s the “big gun”? She threw Krakoa into space, has fought the hulk, almost killed Vulcan and was a key member in Infinity War. We know she’s a big gun. She’s not a new character. Polaris being mind control is boring with how many times it’s been done and feels like Polaris is just being written like a trope instead of a character that’s been around since the 60s. I’d love if Polaris gets picked for the X-Men draft and leaves the book.

  15. #45
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Has Lorna ever had to deal with Malice outside of her body? She controlled her for years, but I don’t remember any post possession confrontation. Heck, is Malice a mutant? If so, how would she fit into Krakoa?

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