Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2021

[Soulsword323]

Lorna and Warren could work. I just hope that one day we get to see Lorna explore feelings/sexual attraction with another character that isn't Alex. Most other character have gotten that. Kitty/Pete Wisdom, Jean/Wolverine/Bishop, Ororo/Logan/Forge, Rogue/Gambit/Colossus.

It's sad that Lorna doesn't seem to get that same chance others do.

[salarta]

Was discussing Lorna on the Alex thread, and it occurred to me is Alex both the best and the worst pairing for the character. I only ask because I constantly hear the Never Again with Alex crowd but who does she have a better relationship with? I mean I have been into comics for more than 4 decades and I don't remember the Lorna/Bobby stuff and when reading the older issues it seemed like more of a romantic complication to get her over to Alex. I know there is the let her be unattached crowd which makes sense but just asking is there some pairing I might have missed in some title that the Lornaites are demanding/longing for?

That Lorna has only ever really been with Havok is actually the central problem. She's existed for 52 years, yet Marvel's allowed no other relationships to speak of. Meanwhile, Havok's with a different woman that isn't Lorna roughly once every decade. The implication as historically set by Marvel is that Havok can be with all sorts of women, he's not limited to just one woman for the rest of his days, but Lorna isn't allowed to be with anyone that isn't Havok. It's part and parcel with the problem of Marvel historically treating Lorna like she only exists to be a supporting character for Havok's stories and therefore must be dedicated to him like she has no thoughts or feelings or aspirations of her own.

Both Marvel and the relationship really aren't in a place where the relationship can be good. There's too much toxic history that needs to be cleared away first by Lorna being recognized and respected as her own character without him. So far, the new X-Men book looks promising in this regard.

As for other relationships, there's the flirtations with Gambit on All-New X-Factor, though it was bogged down in ANXF #3-6 by missteps in treatment of Lorna in relation to him. If you really want to stretch it you could say Random counts because he briefly had a one-sided infatuation with Lorna in the 90s. Aside from that, no other relationships. Not even really any friendships, since historically any she develops disappear as soon as she's no longer on the same team. Which is another part of why fans are eager to see Lorna and Jean on the new X-Men team, no matter how their dynamic operates. This is the first time they're getting to truly interact in any meaningful way in a long time.

In short, that there's no already existing alternative to Havok is in itself proof that she shouldn't be in a relationship with him any time soon. Let her have sufficient time to get all the things she never got over the decades that Havok got in spades decades ago.

It’s no wonder why Lorna chose the high road by getting herself out of the relationship.

Just a bit of correction to this that as things stand in the comics, it was actually Havok that left Lorna (again). At the end of the story arc with Lorna's origin story, Havok broke up with Lorna while she was recovering in bed and then went off to Uncanny Avengers.

I don't think there's been any point in their character history where Lorna's been allowed to be the one to break up with him. The first time they "split" involved possession and mind control in the Claremont era. The second time was when Havok "died" and the writers at first had Lorna locking herself away in an apartment obsessing over his old costume before finally doing something good with her on Genosha. Third time was when Havok left her at the altar during Austen's run. And X-Factor in 2012 makes for the fourth and current time.

That Lorna's never been the one to break them up is also an extension of the problem. Havok can leave her when it's beneficial for him, date whoever he wants, but Marvel's historically decided she can't do the same.

[Devaishwarya]

Considering that, with the exception of Rogue and Gambit, those romantic pairings went nowhere, and generally speaking are only inserted for soap opera dramatics (not a compliment) Lorna was spared a great deal of nonsense.
While I'm not opposed to romance in my comics, if done well, personally I'd be glad if they cut back on that sort of thing.

[salarta]

Considering that, with the exception of Rogue and Gambit, those romantic pairings went nowhere, and generally speaking are only inserted for soap opera dramatics (not a compliment) Lorna was spared a great deal of nonsense.
While I'm not opposed to romance in my comics, if done well, personally I'd be glad if they cut back on that sort of thing.

I'd actually say that Lorna would have been lucky to be involved in those same soap opera dramatics, compared to what she's really gone through.

The soap opera dramatics allowed for multiple relationships which, regardless of views of those dramatics, provided a foundation for future development. Multiple relationships makes for multiple facets of a character to explore. You get to see one side with one character that you don't see with another character. Whereas with Lorna, the lack of those dramatics resulted in her being defined primarily by perceptions of the one lone relationship Marvel allowed her to have, and trying to keep her isolated to that relationship cut her off from building other relationships and doing other things outside of it.

Now, whether or not soap opera dramatics would be good or bad for her today is an open question. There's a good argument for Lorna simply not being in any romantic/sexual relationships right now. They need to do more with her to avoid simply repeating the Havok relationship with a different character.

[Devaishwarya]

Regardless of the many romances certain characters have had...they have only really been defined by "the one".
Jean and Cyclops.
Rogue and Gambit.
Kate and Piotr.
Storm and T'Challa ( I would have said Forge but that was never a deep, long term thing)
So yeah...Lorna and Havok

Duggan doesn't seem to be invested in that trope at least not by what I've read in Marauders (where the "romance" is quite casual). His X-Men might be different but I sincerely hope he concentrates on the heroics.

All that aside, from the very little I've read of Lorna in this era she doesn't seem to be written as a character who's interested in romance, at this time. Which is good.

[jmc247]

Agreed in terms of the importance of having soap opera antics to build bridges to relationships with other characters. There are two things that allow a character to build and develop relationships in the x-books and they are soap opera antics and philosophical divergence. There is a reason why Lorna's father has tons of in-depth and complex relationships to just about all the X-Men and Lorna has nothing other then an ex-boyfriend and tertiarily team friendships which disappear after her runs on titles end.

There are contrasting visions of Lorna. The first version is shy, reserved, and passive outside the field of battle. This version of Lorna has been in the drivers seat the past several runs for the character. This conception denies her the chance at having another sexual partner because it takes a slow build to get anywhere (see ANXF for example) between her and someone else because runs don't have 50 issues these days to get a relationship off the ground they never get off the ground. The second version of Lorna is aggressive and self assured. If she wants a sexual partner she will go for it. We rarely see that version of her.

Magneto and Rogue are an example of a well done slowly developed relationship built on respect, philosophical conflict, and physicality. Rogue has two relationships in both Gambit and Magneto that enhance the character and her story across the x-books and even when she was on the Avengers. Magneto-Rogue-Gambit or even Jean-Scott-Wolverine or Emma-Scott-Jean as relationships are actually well crafted, complicated, interesting and further the characters in question.

[Angleman70]

Lorna and Warren could work. I just hope that one day we get to see Lorna explore feelings/sexual attraction with another character that isn't Alex. Most other character have gotten that. Kitty/Pete Wisdom, Jean/Wolverine/Bishop, Ororo/Logan/Forge, Rogue/Gambit/Colossus.

It's sad that Lorna doesn't seem to get that same chance others do.

I wonder if Lorna thought of Warren as a snob or just shy of him maybe? Hard to say since it was Bobby and Alex focused. As a matter of fact they really didn’t have much of a friendship at all. Still, I’d like to see that explored at some future date, if that’s possible.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

I’m curious to read more about Lorna.

As mostly a non-fan (not to be confused with a hater), which singular story (one-shot, mini-series, or multiple issue arc) would you recommend...that you would say embodied the essence of the character?

[salarta]

I’m curious to read more about Lorna.

As mostly a non-fan (not to be confused with a hater), which singular story (one-shot, mini-series, or multiple issue arc) would you recommend...that you would say embodied the essence of the character?

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to say one singular story embodies the essence of the character. Different stories capture different facets of the character (or not; a lot of stories aren't even Lorna at all and treat her more like a plot device/vehicle for others than a character herself). A true understanding of her isn't found in just one person's work thus far.

But if I had to pick one, I would say Austen, because I think he's come the closest in spite of problems. And within that, I would pick either Uncanny X-Men #431, or Uncanny X-Men #442-443. I think each covers the sort of difficult experiences she's endured and how she developed from them. Other stuff doesn't really delve into what she's been through in any meaningful way (as in that her experiences actually had an impact on her), or really look at anything from her own personal perspective. Outside of 616, I'd say Secret Wars: House of M covered her well (albeit it didn't do well for other characters like Pietro IMO).

[jmc247]

I’m curious to read more about Lorna.

As mostly a non-fan (not to be confused with a hater), which singular story (one-shot, mini-series, or multiple issue arc) would you recommend...that you would say embodied the essence of the character?

Uncanny X-Men #443 would be by far and away the one shot single issue I would recommend to understand Lorna's character.

What questions are you interested in knowing or understanding better in terms of Lorna? There are a lot of issues with pieces of Lorna's character scattered about as well as family history.

[Angleman70]

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to say one singular story embodies the essence of the character. Different stories capture different facets of the character (or not; a lot of stories aren't even Lorna at all and treat her more like a plot device/vehicle for others than a character herself). A true understanding of her isn't found in just one person's work thus far.

But if I had to pick one, I would say Austen, because I think he's come the closest in spite of problems. And within that, I would pick either Uncanny X-Men #431, or Uncanny X-Men #442-443. I think each covers the sort of difficult experiences she's endured and how she developed from them. Other stuff doesn't really delve into what she's been through in any meaningful way (as in that her experiences actually had an impact on her), or really look at anything from her own personal perspective. Outside of 616, I'd say Secret Wars: House of M covered her well (albeit it didn't do well for other characters like Pietro IMO).

This is true. Plot devices are at the core of the problem in regards to Lorna’s history in the X-men.

[jmc247]

Gala

Its the same artist that did the previously released scene with Banshee though I don't know for what issue either is for.

This is true. Plot devices are at the core of the problem in regards to Lorna’s history in the X-men.

During Claremont’s first run, sure.

But, that has not been her problem since then. The X-Men are made up of characters who fill a set of roles. In 1991 when she entered X-Factor she came in as replacement Jean on that title. One of the many problems with being the designated the replacement for an A list character is that you never rise up to the core books for very long because that other character exists and will return with a far better claim to the role. On the eve of her re-entrance onto the X-Men Lorna hasn't yet marked out her own territory in terms of her role amongst the other female X-Men.

[jmc247]

I'm glad they gave Brand a different hair style to differentiate her from Lorna. Hate they could easily be mistaken for one another, and it's a reason I don't really care too much for Brand tbh. I know its petty but I don't care.

I don’t mind Agent Brand’s hair color.

Brand has been getting a ton of great development and interaction with Magneto of late. I am somewhat envious as it’s been so vastly better then the lion share of the interaction Lorna and Mags have had the past ten years very little of which managed to capture Lorna’s own ambiguity and complexity.

Hickman’s interaction with Lorna and Mags has been good though. Not great, but good.

[knowmadic]

on the outside, I'm great ... but deep down I want Lorna to start using metal like the Beifongs do in avatar.

[salarta]

on the outside, I'm great ... but deep down I want Lorna to start using metal like the Beifongs do in avatar.

There's really a lot of possibilities with her powers and ways to express her individuality through them, both specifically with metalbending and beyond it into the electromagnetic aspects that aren't connected to manipulating metal. I'm reluctant to give any specifics in the off chance someone from Marvel might see it here and that it would mean them not pursuing any of those possibilities. But there's been lots of academic/medical research related to electromagnetism over the past decade that could easily be mined for applications and wouldn't detract from what Jean or Storm can do. Also lots of ways electromagnetism is expressed and functions as a part of our world both natural and man-made. I think these kind of statements are safely broad enough - that if they were treated as "too specific to pursue" then it would basically mean Marvel never using her powers at all.