Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2021

[Lucyinthesky]

I will admit I felt their interaction was suffering even before the new era as they had no joint project. There were a few good scenes between them yes. Reversing Havok's inversion was it for the last decade and that was something they just needed a telepath to fix. I felt their interaction needed something extra in the Bunn era as if there were morally complicated issues or contentious issues it was always a debate between Briar and Magneto.

Agreed we really have not seen them interact with the political aspect involved since Genosha Bunn did well having them interact as father and daughter in an equal relationship and having Lorna be a superhero with the X-men team but the political aspect was forgotten as if Genosha didn´t happen and it´s truly important because that time was the first time they interacted for a long period of time not because they were family but because they had joined interests. That´s too unteresting to be left unexplored.

On paper in the new era their relationship shouldn't be suffering because they both have complicated issues to deal with regarding the mutant homeland and its place in the world, but it certainly is because other then Hickman writers have removed any politics from their relationship.

In the 616 Hickman is the best writer of the Lorna-Magneto relationship of last decade. Before that I would have to say Alan Davis from his work in the Genosha era.

Yes Hickman has involved Lorna a little more on the political aspect and the importance of Krakoa for them both but also has allowed them to question some aspects of it so a little more of that would be nice. Yes they are father and daughter and that brings it´s own dimension to their story but this doesn´t mean that what mattered to them in the past doesn´t count anymore. In fact it informs their relationship because now we know why Magneto didn´t hold back in teaching Lorna all about her power so she would be able to develop it to the levels it´s now, she´s his daughter, he wanted her to be protected and her to develop her powers to their full potential and later this would allow her to survive Genosha´s destruction. Their relationship is a mix of father/daughter, protegee/teacher and it´s actually rare to see in comics so more of this would be a unique way to explore them with a unique dynamic different to the one he has with Wanda and Pietro.

I liked some of Leah interactions in the sense that he´s proud of her acomplisments and wants her to have a possition of leadership but I disliked the way she wrote Lorna resenting this and even tell him he doesn´t truly know her or her herself, this would make sense if Krakoa was truly the first time they have lived together but in the face of Genosha, the months they had to fight off the magistrates without powers, the time she expend taking his image when he was still hurt or the times she was a leader among the acolytes, then it doesn´t make sense for Lorna to have a problem leading X-factor because just like with Magneto, that would be the natural way for her to integrate into Krakoa given her previous experience and the way she formed the team.

AU I would have to say Secret War House of M. Though the author made Magneto a bit too block headed for my tastes their relationship was a more developed version of the political relationship we saw with Alan Davis on Genosha.

Yes they had the nice ingredient of their relationship being more political as well as familiar but they did make Magneto too hard headed in a way he´s really not been in canon and only wrote him having a nice relationship with his grandchildren, while it would make sense for him to have it with his children too but I guess they had to justify in some way Pietro deciding to betray him.

[salarta]

Agreed we really have not seen them interact with the political aspect involved since Genosha Bunn did well having them interact as father and daughter in an equal relationship and having Lorna be a superhero with the X-men team but the political aspect was forgotten as if Genosha didn´t happen and it´s truly important because that time was the first time they interacted for a long period of time not because they were family but because they had joined interests. That´s too unteresting to be left unexplored.

Marvel ignoring Lorna's history with Genosha is probably the biggest problem she has. That history very clearly laid out a deep stake in X-Men/mutant affairs for her as her own character while providing a means for Lorna to interact positively with her father. By acting like it never happened, Marvel misses key components that work perfectly for the character and her relationships.

There's also just simply the gravity of the genocide all on its own. It's absurd that mutants that were never even present during the genocide can be outraged that it happened and have stories focused on it, but Lorna can't utter a single word about it in over 15 years despite her direct experience and trauma from it. May as well have the Avengers talking about Uncle Ben's death all the time while Peter Parker just shrugs and saves kittens from trees.

In fact it informs their relationship because now we know why Magneto didn´t hold back in teaching Lorna all about her power so she would be able to develop it to the levels it´s now, she´s his daughter, he wanted her to be protected and her to develop her powers to their full potential and later this would allow her to survive Genosha´s destruction. Their relationship is a mix of father/daughter, protegee/teacher and it´s actually rare to see in comics so more of this would be a unique way to explore them with a unique dynamic different to the one he has with Wanda and Pietro.

Training Lorna had on Genosha leading to her being powerful enough to survive the genocide is an interesting take I don't think I've seen before. I think it's a good one too. Presents another positive to their relationship. Plus I think if not for their dynamics on Genosha, it's very possible she could have been written as killed in the genocide in following how AU books (e.g. Ultimates) tended to have her as part of the body count.

Protégé/teacher needs some fine-tuning from Marvel, that considers their past interactions when they do it. I think Mike Carey's approach to it was fine, where Magneto guided Lorna on manipulating at the particle level (I think; it's been a long time since I read that story arc). But X-Men Blue had problems in the beginning, e.g. when it had Lorna acting like she was surprised by a surprise attack just so Magneto could mansplain surprise attacks to her. Not the sort of thing Lorna would need explained to her even just by how long she's been active, and especially not after seeing millions die all around her in a surprise attack on Genosha.

Blue did get better about their dynamics toward the end of the run, but that's an example of Marvel needing to do more work on it - and, incidentally, an example of a problem that could've easily been avoided if Marvel just acknowledged her experiences on Genosha.

[Lucyinthesky]

Marvel ignoring Lorna's history with Genosha is probably the biggest problem she has. That history very clearly laid out a deep stake in X-Men/mutant affairs for her as her own character while providing a means for Lorna to interact positively with her father. By acting like it never happened, Marvel misses key components that work perfectly for the character and her relationships.

Agreed it´s rare how we have not seen her and Magneto work together again as they did during that era and once in a while it would be nice if the characters made a reference of it. Something that could come out of them talking with Amelia or something similar.

There's also just simply the gravity of the genocide all on its own. It's absurd that mutants that were never even present during the genocide can be outraged that it happened and have stories focused on it, but Lorna can't utter a single word about it in over 15 years despite her direct experience and trauma from it. May as well have the Avengers talking about Uncle Ben's death all the time while Peter Parker just shrugs and saves kittens from trees.

Exactly everytime I see Jean or Emma fight Cassandra Nova over Genosha I am like "Jean I love you but you didn´t even like Genosha and Emma I know you care about your students but you were not the one who had to keep on fighting for a Genosha to exist in the first place for months and sometimes without powers. Also for some reason they keep tryng to redeem Cassandra when she has shown less layers and human dimensions and potential to be good than Shadow King, she´s an impressive villain but also very one note and imo Lorna and or Magneto should have more opportunities to fight with her over Genosha.

Training Lorna had on Genosha leading to her being powerful enough to survive the genocide is an interesting take I don't think I've seen before. I think it's a good one too. Presents another positive to their relationship. Plus I think if not for their dynamics on Genosha, it's very possible she could have been written as killed in the genocide in following how AU books (e.g. Ultimates) tended to have her as part of the body count.

Probably she had big grown over controlling her powers compared to her time on X-factor, I liked when Havok made the observation she was a more terrifying opponent after her training with Magneto on Genosha, when I read that, I was surprised because I didn´t thought about it before but he had a point, Lorna now has powers similar to Magneto´s level and that was a reason why the X-men were a little more wary of her after getting herback, she was still Lorna but she had an hability that linked her directly with one of their biggest adversaries and that´s not a little thing. Then we also have the example of Vulcan keeping her out of consciouness because he feared her power and of course we have that observation she made on X-men #1, because yes, this also means she has a deep link to earth´s magnetosphere and control over gravity because of her training with her father. I don´t think she would say it lightly imo so I have the head canon she said that to Scott after his joke about Wanda´s death.

Protégé/teacher needs some fine-tuning from Marvel, that considers their past interactions when they do it. I think Mike Carey's approach to it was fine, where Magneto guided Lorna on manipulating at the particle level (I think; it's been a long time since I read that story arc). But X-Men Blue had problems in the beginning, e.g. when it had Lorna acting like she was surprised by a surprise attack just so Magneto could mansplain surprise attacks to her. Not the sort of thing Lorna would need explained to her even just by how long she's been active, and especially not after seeing millions die all around her in a surprise attack on Genosha.

I think they only have the Protege/teacher role when they talk about their powers and it´s not as strong now than it was during Genosha´s time, right now Lorna has a good handle over her powers so I see those roles as part of their recent past but that serve as background to their father/daughter relationship and you are right it depends in how marvel tackles it that it can become interesting and make sense for them or not. It depends on the circunstance, for example I would love to see a scene between them were they are practicing mental shields for protection to telephathy, it´s something I have not see them cover but that´s always important for them because given their power they can´t be vulnerable to mind control to be used to attack their partners and in Lorna´s case it´s a deep issue I could see her giving priority to correct.

Blue did get better about their dynamics toward the end of the run, but that's an example of Marvel needing to do more work on it - and, incidentally, an example of a problem that could've easily been avoided if Marvel just acknowledged her experiences on Genosha.

Yes if Bunn had added their Genosha story their interaction would have felt way more natural and would also have given PAD more material to work on X-factor.

[salarta]

Exactly everytime I see Jean or Emma fight Cassandra Nova over Genosha I am like "Jean I love you but you didn´t even like Genosha and Emma I know you care about your students but you were not the one who had to keep on fighting for a Genosha to exist in the first place for months and sometimes without powers. Also for some reason they keep tryng to redeem Cassandra when she has shown less layers and human dimensions and potential to be good than Shadow King, she´s an impressive villain but also very one note and imo Lorna and or Magneto should have more opportunities to fight with her over Genosha.

I think it's fair for Emma to talk and care about it considering she really was present when it happened and had some stories off of it shortly after. I also generally think it's fine for other characters like Jean to talk about and use it, but not at the same time that Lorna's treated like she was never there and has no idea what Genosha was. If Lorna can't have it acknowledged and explored, then other characters like Jean and Storm that weren't even there shouldn't get to use it either. Otherwise it's like giving Kitty Pryde stories involving the Holocaust while spending 15 years acting like Magneto never went through it and doesn't know what it was.

[Lucyinthesky]

I think it's fair for Emma to talk and care about it considering she really was present when it happened and had some stories off of it shortly after. I also generally think it's fine for other characters like Jean to talk about and use it, but not at the same time that Lorna's treated like she was never there and has no idea what Genosha was. If Lorna can't have it acknowledged and explored, then other characters like Jean and Storm that weren't even there shouldn't get to use it either. Otherwise it's like giving Kitty Pryde stories involving the Holocaust while spending 15 years acting like Magneto never went through it and doesn't know what it was.

Agreed. I guess it just bothers me sometimes but that´s a talk for another time.

Now about Lorna, I can´t remember the last time a writer made a reference to Genosha in relation to Lorna since Austen and maybe her political side shown with her interactions with Crystal. It´s something that informs the character today and needs to be referenced to understand her current perspective. I also liked PAD writting her on X-factor as wanting to be there for humanity too,those two sides should not be in opposition when it comes to her but two parts of her own perspective.

Kitty and Magneto don´t have that problem because Kitty lives her jewisness as part of her family religion,history and culture, she just IS Jewish while Magneto has this added background of having lived the holocaust and wanting for mutants a kind of promised land as part of his Jewishness that he translates to the mutant experience. It´s a different take to the same situation and I agree this should also be the case with Lorna, Emma, Jean, etc. when it´s about Genosha.

[jmc247]

Exactly everytime I see Jean or Emma fight Cassandra Nova over Genosha I am like "Jean I love you but you didn´t even like Genosha and Emma I know you care about your students but you were not the one who had to keep on fighting for a Genosha to exist in the first place for months and sometimes without powers. Also for some reason they keep tryng to redeem Cassandra when she has shown less layers and human dimensions and potential to be good than Shadow King, she´s an impressive villain but also very one note and imo Lorna and or Magneto should have more opportunities to fight with her over Genosha.

I don't mind at all other characters mentioning Genosha. They all have many times in many different ways and it is a very important event directly to the lives of several characters most important of which are Magneto and Emma.

I do very much mind greatly that the past 15 years of runs have taken a scrubbing brush to that part of Lorna's history and has been repeatedly trying to replace the pathos with something else. It has very much screwed up Lorna's story for many years now she has not had at as a core motivation to understand the character and writers keep on trying to write their own flashy new replacement trauma as her driving pathos. Its failed time and again and again.

One can't really understand Lorna's character if one memory holes the most significant and terrible event in her life as a character where she helped lead a nation that was wiped out utterly and its also endlessly screwing up Lorna and Magneto's interaction that they keep trying to treat their relationship like they have just started interacting.

[Lucyinthesky]

I don't mind at all other characters mentioning Genosha. They all have many times in many different ways and it is a very important event directly to the lives of several characters most important of which are Magneto and Emma.

I do very much mind greatly that the past 15 years of runs have taken a scrubbing brush to that part of Lorna's history and has been repeatedly trying to replace the pathos with something else. It has very much screwed up Lorna's story for many years now she has not had at as a core motivation to understand the character and writers keep on trying to write their own flashy new replacement trauma as her driving pathos. Its failed time and again and again.

One can't really understand Lorna's character if one memory holes the most significant and terrible event in her life as a character where she helped lead a nation that was wiped out utterly and its also endlessly screwing up Lorna and Magneto's interaction that they keep trying to treat their relationship like they have just started interacting.

Exactly Genosha works for Lorna because it was something that happened to the character inside story, it wasn´t an event introduced after the fact, it happened in real comic time and it makes sense for her story to be informed by this event and just like in the case of Kitty and Magneto with their Jewish identity, mentioning Genosha in relation to Lorna doesnt take from other characters using it as pathos because it was a different experience for all of them. It´s time for marvel to take note of this.

[Mercury]

I'll be listening to the Cerebro podcast episode centered on Lorna tonight, or at least starting my listen; I can't promise I'll finish it. I just want to thank you all for going so in-depth while discussing Lorna's history and pivotal moments. I'm learning a lot.

All I have to say is: Justice for Lorna!

[jmc247]

Preview page for X-Men Legacy 5

A fan take on Inferno.



Link

[Mercury]

Love this moment.

[juan678]

[Soulsword323]

I'm glad Lorna's there, but I'm worried about her. Hopefully this isn't too bad for Polaris.

[juan678]

[juan678]

[juan678]