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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I kinda always wanted to see Lorna in teal. I think she could look really great in that color IMO.

  2. #77

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    Couple new pieces of fanart by Japanese artists.



    by 95O22



    Commission drawn by RNSI_de_gozaru
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    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

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  3. #78
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    I know comic artists have a tendency to exaggerate anatomy, but dang, that first one ain’t right.

  4. #79
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  5. #80
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I don't know if there was any fan backlash. Lorna's costume really is no different than Psylocke's so I don't imagine that there was? But I don't know. It debuted with Peter David, and I assume it was part of an overall plot he had for Polaris, and when he left I guess they felt she should change it. Lorna had body issues during PAD's short tenure, and I don't think anyone really touched on that again after his departure. I can't remember if JM did, but I don't recall anyone doing much with that plot thread.

    I don't like the red/gold color scheme on Lorna, but I LOVED the metal on the torso. Such a great detail/addition.


  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    I know comic artists have a tendency to exaggerate anatomy, but dang, that first one ain’t right.
    Yeah, that's one of the interesting differences between fan work vs work from the company that owns the rights. The former is more forgivable with such things, whereas the latter not so much.
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  7. #82
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Hey guys, what did I mi—

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Couple new pieces of fanart by Japanese artists.



    by 95O22
    HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Hey guys, what did I mi—



    HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!
    I forget. Hasn’t Polaris always been one of the bustiest X-woman?

    At least since Malice left her the first time.

  9. #84
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    I know comic artists have a tendency to exaggerate anatomy, but dang, that first one ain’t right.
    They're both technically very atrocious.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Yeah, that's one of the interesting differences between fan work vs work from the company that owns the rights. The former is more forgivable with such things, whereas the latter not so much.
    Hey now, I’ll criticized the ‘professionals’ for such things as well (and when I said ‘ain’t right’ it wasn’t a ‘moral judgement,’ it was ‘those things don’t even look like they are connected to her chest’ judgement. )

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Hey now, I’ll criticized the ‘professionals’ for such things as well (and when I said ‘ain’t right’ it wasn’t a ‘moral judgement,’ it was ‘those things don’t even look like they are connected to her chest’ judgement. )
    What I meant was problems with exaggerated anatomy tend to be more forgivable with fan work, vs how the same problems would get more complaints if it was made by someone hired by Marvel. No criticism meant toward you.
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    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

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  12. #87
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Thank you for that additional context. It shows things preceding the moment happened differently from what I thought, that she was trying to stop Northstar rather than rushing in herself. However, it raises another question: why is Rachel's quipping directed at Lorna, not Northstar or both of them?

    That's not a frivolous question. Framing matters. It's how people can look at two characters going through the same or similar events and remember one in a worse light than the other. I come from a background of video games, where I saw many Final Fantasy IV fans quick to look down on one character for circumstances beyond her control (Rosa contracting Desert Fever) while shrugging off same for another (Leviathan causing a shipwreck to take Rydia) all due to presentation. One was remembered as a "useless damsel in distress," the other an intriguing special character. Was Leah concerned Rachel saying it to Northstar would undermine him as a leader, but Lorna was a safe target? Did she think Northstar's act is more forgivable as someone learning the leader ropes, but Lorna should "know better" and therefore deserves mockery? These are questions that do not require Leah to have thought about and decided on these things deliberately. In writing, many things happen subconsciously and unintentionally. You learn a lot about yourself that way if you're looking.

    If Northstar actually was mocked for what he did in a similar way to Lorna, please share. I would like to see.

    As for the second paragraph, you're right that one panel isn't the end-all. I'm not talking about just one panel. I'm talking about multiple.




    I'm limited to three images. Otherwise I would be using more from X-Factor #4. Beyond that, I didn't address the "facets" you mentioned because I don't feel like getting into an argument at this moment about the problems with each of them. I know you see the examples you provided as good. I've described why they're otherwise before, and I'm sure I will do so again when there's a need for it.

    Attention is only good if the cause for attention is also good. Lorna, and X-Factor in general, would both be better off if Lorna had never been on the book in the first place.
    Rachel and Lorna and friends. Friends make jokes about eachother all the time. Anything other than that is just an intentional misread of the scene.

    Lorna talking about her own struggles and self-doubt in narration is something that only makes her character more relatable to readers who might identify with her and also respects her story with mental illness. Nothing about these panels indicate any ill intent on Leah's portrayal, again.

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I didn't like Quesada's costume because of the colors. Red and Yellow or "gold" clashed with her green hair. I preferred when they changed it to blue and yellow. In fact, even though I love her updated original look by Billy Tan, I think blue work with her green tresses so much better. Surprisingly, my 2nd favorite look is her original X-Factor uniform. [I also like the perm too].

    Too bad none of her "iconic" looks use dark blue. If it's not monochromatic green, it's some version of purple to tie her with Magneto.
    Sometimes in the original X-Men run, Lorna's original costume did look blue-ish. Maybe it was more of a blue-teal than the green color usually shown. I liked those a lot as it did not compete with her eyes, lips and hair color. While this may have been a coloring issue, I liked it alot.
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    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Rachel and Lorna and friends. Friends make jokes about eachother all the time. Anything other than that is just an intentional misread of the scene.

    Lorna talking about her own struggles and self-doubt in narration is something that only makes her character more relatable to readers who might identify with her and also respects her story with mental illness. Nothing about these panels indicate any ill intent on Leah's portrayal, again.
    It's one thing if it's just an offhand "joke" by people who are close. It's another when it's a theme repeated with multiple characters.

    X-Factor #4's depiction of Lorna could have been what you say it is if there was any shred of Lorna in it. There's no semblance at all of either awareness or acknowledgment of how long she's been in the comics, all the different traumas she experienced, how those past experiences and how she's developed from them would have affected her views. Nobody at Marvel, including this book, can seem to give a damn about how she survived the Genoshan genocide and even mention it once. She's being treated story-wise like a brand new blank slate character who can be made into whatever best helps everyone else around her.

    And that's something I don't abide by. I didn't accept it when Peter David treated her that way in All-New X-Factor #4-6, and I'm not accepting it now. In those issues, I didn't accept Peter David acting like Lorna has no past leadership experience and having her act one minute like a random rage monster with no impulse control to the next a cowed team member of her own team who somehow can't stop Gambit recruiting Danger to the team she's supposedly leading. Likewise, I'm not going to accept this X-Factor treating Lorna like someone who's never experienced the concept of death, or has spent the past 52 years apparently aggressively never learning (after vowing a decade and a half ago never to let it happen again) the lesson of how to have plans and guardrails up to head off getting mind controlled for the billionth time. This book isn't using Lorna. It's using a caricature of her informed by toxic past treatment of her and the nostalgia loaded onto it.

    Respecting a character's story with mental illness includes respecting key moments in their history tied to it, and how those moments have affected them. Otherwise it's not respect. A story about Frodo dealing with PTSD from his journey in Lord of the Rings requires acknowledging that his journey happened and was responsible for his PTSD. Same here.
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  15. #90
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    It's one thing if it's just an offhand "joke" by people who are close. It's another when it's a theme repeated with multiple characters.

    X-Factor #4's depiction of Lorna could have been what you say it is if there was any shred of Lorna in it. There's no semblance at all of either awareness or acknowledgment of how long she's been in the comics, all the different traumas she experienced, how those past experiences and how she's developed from them would have affected her views. Nobody at Marvel, including this book, can seem to give a damn about how she survived the Genoshan genocide and even mention it once. She's being treated story-wise like a brand new blank slate character who can be made into whatever best helps everyone else around her.

    And that's something I don't abide by. I didn't accept it when Peter David treated her that way in All-New X-Factor #4-6, and I'm not accepting it now. In those issues, I didn't accept Peter David acting like Lorna has no past leadership experience and having her act one minute like a random rage monster with no impulse control to the next a cowed team member of her own team who somehow can't stop Gambit recruiting Danger to the team she's supposedly leading. Likewise, I'm not going to accept this X-Factor treating Lorna like someone who's never experienced the concept of death, or has spent the past 52 years apparently aggressively never learning (after vowing a decade and a half ago never to let it happen again) the lesson of how to have plans and guardrails up to head off getting mind controlled for the billionth time. This book isn't using Lorna. It's using a caricature of her informed by toxic past treatment of her and the nostalgia loaded onto it.

    Respecting a character's story with mental illness includes respecting key moments in their history tied to it, and how those moments have affected them. Otherwise it's not respect. A story about Frodo dealing with PTSD from his journey in Lord of the Rings requires acknowledging that his journey happened and was responsible for his PTSD. Same here.
    It's not a theme. It's a individual scene where two friends joke around, and then a comment made by a villain. A villain always says bad things about the protagonists of the book - it doesn't mean the writer wants the reader to think these views are true. It's just the villain's point of view.

    What does "acknowledgment of how long she's been in the comics" mean? And why would she need to reference the Genoshan genocide in a completely different context? Nowhere also the book pretends that she never experienced the concept of death... It's a story set in the current status quo, an age where the mutants think they've conquered death and are invincible. The story in X-Factor #4 is about Lorna being somebody who's feels strongly about her teammate's death due to self-doubt and then enters into shock when she finds he can't be brought back. It's a huge surprise for the mutants in Krakoa in general because they thought they were past those days, and it hits Lorna the hardest because she feels responsible - not because she really was responsible for Rockslide's death, but because of her own struggles. Leah does not need to name all of her struggles for the reader to be able to understand that.
    Last edited by nandes; 01-20-2021 at 02:58 PM.

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