Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2021

[juan678]

[salarta]

It wasn't until seeing the page of the mech from X-Men #1 on the SDCC X-Men panel that I noticed the headshot for Lorna on that page has a background of the black dots that were used on the cover of X-Men #50. Awesome art detail.

[jmc247]

It wasn't until seeing the page of the mech from X-Men #1 on the SDCC X-Men panel that I noticed the headshot for Lorna on that page has a background of the black dots that were used on the cover of X-Men #50. Awesome art detail.

You are right I didn’t notice, it is a nice call back.

I heard from my local comic shop sales are still strong on X-Men #1. Let’s see how that goes.

[Soulsword323]

I hope Williams is able to provide nuance to Lorna's and Magneto's exchanges during ToM. From the brief moments we've seen, and going off how Leah has written them in X-Factor, it doesn't seem like that will be the case unfortunately.

Also, I kind of wish it was Pietro at the center of this story. Lorna has a much stronger emotional connection to him than Wanda. I'm fine with Lorna having empathy for Wanda, and feeling bad for what happened to her, but Polaris doesn't really know her. They have no relationship, and their interactions have always been very fleeting and lacking a lot of substance. I hope Williams isn't trying to retroactively add something that wasn't there when it comes to Lorna and Wanda.

[Stormy]

I hope Williams is able to provide nuance to Lorna's and Magneto's exchanges during ToM. From the brief moments we've seen, and going off how Leah has written them in X-Factor, it doesn't seem like that will be the case unfortunately.

Also, I kind of wish it was Pietro at the center of this story. Lorna has a much stronger emotional connection to him than Wanda. I'm fine with Lorna having empathy for Wanda, and feeling bad for what happened to her, but Polaris doesn't really know her. They have no relationship, and their interactions have always been very fleeting and lacking a lot of substance. I hope Williams isn't trying to retroactively add something that wasn't there when it comes to Lorna and Wanda.

That's why writers need to develop this. You can't let Lorna relate so much to Pietro while she also has a "half sister", I find that too lazy, like most personal Polaris scripts.

[Soulsword323]

That's why writers need to develop this. You can't let Lorna relate so much to Pietro while she also has a "half sister", I find that too lazy, like most personal Polaris scripts.

It's not lazy IMO, because Pietro has always had stronger ties to the X-Men. Wanda hardly interacts with them. It makes sense that Polaris would have developed something stronger with Pietro than Wanda. They were around each other more.

I also feel that Lorna should have had more animosity (might be too strong of a word) with the Scarlet Witch. After all, Wanda was the one to strip her of her Mutant abilities (the second time this has happened), and we know that it had a significant impact on Lorna as a character. I understand PAD would to leave them somewhere more positive, but I agree with others who've said that Lorna was a bit too quick to forgive. It's clear that Lorna's mutant identity is very important to her, and that was taken from her (briefly, but still) from Wanda.

[loke13]

I hope Williams is able to provide nuance to Lorna's and Magneto's exchanges during ToM. From the brief moments we've seen, and going off how Leah has written them in X-Factor, it doesn't seem like that will be the case unfortunately.

Also, I kind of wish it was Pietro at the center of this story. Lorna has a much stronger emotional connection to him than Wanda. I'm fine with Lorna having empathy for Wanda, and feeling bad for what happened to her, but Polaris doesn't really know her. They have no relationship, and their interactions have always been very fleeting and lacking a lot of substance. I hope Williams isn't trying to retroactively add something that wasn't there when it comes to Lorna and Wanda.

I feel the exact opposite I hope they do try to retroactively add a more personal relationship with Wanda and Lorna it's something that's been sorely missing for decades. I doubt Williams is going to write them as being the best sisters ever but at least acknowledging some sort of familial emotions would go a long way for me.

[jmc247]

Also, I kind of wish it was Pietro at the center of this story. Lorna has a much stronger emotional connection to him than Wanda. I'm fine with Lorna having empathy for Wanda, and feeling bad for what happened to her, but Polaris doesn't really know her. They have no relationship, and their interactions have always been very fleeting and lacking a lot of substance. I hope Williams isn't trying to retroactively add something that wasn't there when it comes to Lorna and Wanda.

The best written Lorna and Pietro to date was ironically by PAD in his first run not second when he wrote them feeling like siblings when they weren’t officially such as yet. The same can be said for Lorna and Mags relationship pre-revel.

There was a level of jealousy when Lorna and Wanda first met though it was subtle.







My take is that PAD did move way too far too fast with their relationship of the sort of developments that made sense over a few years though he may have known about the retcon coming down the pike making it more understandable.

Lorna used to care deeply about mutant activism (if she does in the modern era or not is unknown) and a level of jealously is reasonable given the history of the characters. Mutant issues and Magneto are the two workable issues between them. I suspect Leah will focus on Magneto not the other M word as the pivot point.

[Lucyinthesky]

The best written Lorna and Pietro to date was ironically by PAD in his first run not second when he wrote them feeling like siblings when they werenÂ’t officially such as yet. The same can be said for Lorna and Mags relationship pre-revel.

There was a level of jealousy when Lorna and Wanda first met though it was subtle.

My take is that PAD did move way too far too fast with their relationship of the sort of developments that made sense over a few years though he may have known about the retcon coming down the pike making it more understandable.

Lorna used to care deeply about mutant activism (if she does in the modern era or not is unknown) and a level of jealously is reasonable given the history of the characters. Mutant issues and Magneto are the two workable issues between them. I suspect Leah will focus on Magneto not the other M word as the pivot point.

I believe she still does in Krakoa because she looked very interested in knowing how the ressurrection process worked and if it was genuine and she also asked Scott if he believed in what Krakoa offered, those are valid questions for someone who survived Genosha and wants a real opportunity for mutants to thrive and is looking around to see if Krakoa actually offers this. At the Gala she seems to have a lot of trust in the Quiet Council and has yet to put any question on it and as an X-man she may want to be the hero for Krakoa and the world. I hope Leah includes all this in Trial of Magneto because they bring put Lorna in an interesting position, if she believes Magneto killed Wanda she has reasons to support the X-men and Krakoa over him as an X-man and as a daughter defending who they thought was family to them even if she doesn´t have a close relationship with Wanda.

On the other if they know Magneto didn´t do it but he wants to use the ressurrection protocols on her, potentially putting in danger one of the most important secrets Krakoa has, Lorna may feel empathy for him but ultimately could choose to protect Krakoa´s secrets even if they keep Wanda dead.

Williams talked about exploring the dynamics of the HoM so this could be a way to do it, using their actual characterization.

I also would like to add, if Magik inclusion has anything to do with the story, this could include a third person in that dynamic, because while Illyana is not one of Magneto´s daughters and has her own close relationship with the X-men, she and him bonded quite well over their experiences growing up and also over the perception other people have of them so I could see her maybe helping him in his own investigation of what happened to Wanda, not to break Krakoa´s secrets but an investigation is good enough and she´s one of Krakoa´s great captains and security is a big part of her job.

[jmc247]

I believe she still does in Krakoa because she looked very interested in knowing how the ressurrection process worked and if it was genuine and she also asked Scott if he believed in what Krakoa offered, those are valid questions for someone who survived Genosha and wants a real opportunity for mutants to thrive and is looking around to see if Krakoa actually offers this. At the Gala she seems to have a lot of trust in the Quiet Council and has yet to put any question on it and as an X-man she may want to be the hero for Krakoa and the world. I hope Leah includes all this in Trial of Magneto because they bring put Lorna in an interesting position, if she believes Magneto killed Wanda she has reasons to support the X-men and Krakoa over him as an X-man and as a daughter defending who they thought was family to them even if she doesn´t have a close relationship with Wanda.

On the other if they know Magneto didn´t do it but he wants to use the ressurrection protocols on her, potentially putting in danger one of the most important secrets Krakoa has, Lorna may feel empathy for him but ultimately could choose to protect Krakoa´s secrets even if they keep Wanda death.

Williams talked about exploring the dynamics of the HoM so this could be a way to do it, using their actual characterization.

I also would like to add, if Magik inclusion has anything to do with the story, this could put include a third person in that dynamic, because while Illyana is not one of Magneto´s daughters and has her own close relationship with the X-men, she and him bonded quite well over their experiences growing up and also over the perception other people have of them so I could see her maybe helping him in his own investigation of what happened to Wanda, maybe not to break Krakoa´s secrets but an investigation is good enough and she´s one of Krakoa´s great captains and security is a big part of her job.

I like your optimism and hope you are right.

I certainly want Trial of Magneto to succeed. As for Magneto potentially wanting to use the resurrection protocols to bring back Wanda he just got done shutting down Havok for wanting Maddie brought back under the point the council decides and he is just acting emotionally. He is engaging in rank hypocrisy if he demands they break their rules and Lorna doesn't have an emotional connection with Wanda as yet strong enough to seriously influence her judgement the way Magneto does with her.

[Lucyinthesky]

I like your optimism and hope you are right.

I certainly want Trial of Magneto to succeed. As for Magneto potentially wanting to use the resurrection protocols to bring back Wanda he just got done shutting down Havok for wanting Maddie brought back under the point the council decides and he is just acting emotionally. He is engaging in rank hypocrisy if he demands they break their rules and Lorna doesn't have an emotional connection with Wanda as yet strong enough to seriously influence her judgement the way Magneto does with her.

Yes but still I can see him doing this, for the exact same reason Havok wanted to bring back Maddie, for the same reason why Raven wants Irene back and for the same reason why Cyclops wanted to protect Havok and keep him from being send to the hellions and for the same reason Charles broke the rules to bring back Old man Cable while keeping alive Young cable, for love and family, because we don´t think the same way when it´s about our own family being affected and it must be double hurtful for him because he has done a lot to help Krakoa thrive and now it´s the reason(apparently) why Wanda is dead and it´s laws are keeping her that way so he would not see it as hypocrisy but as an injustice that needs to be rectified and you are right Lorna would not be that emotionally affected because she´s not close to Wanda so she would see the case in a more level headed and neutral way.

Edit: In fact the more I think about this, I believe there´s a big possibility Wanda will not be brought back to life using the ressurrection protocols, because even if they used those she would not have all her memories, who knows when Cerebro stopped taking her memories and given Magik involvement in the case I am guessing it´s possible she will be back using magical means.

Sorry I didn´t ask this before but I am curious why do you think Lorna was a little jealous of Wanda in Genosha?

[jmc247]

Edit: In fact the more I think about this, I believe there´s a big possibility Wanda will not be brought back to life using the ressurrection protocols, because even if they used those she would not have all her memories, who knows when Cerebro stopped taking her memories and given Magik involvement in the case I am guessing it´s possible she will be back using magical means.

Unless they are ready to undo the Uncanny Avengers retcon they aren't going to go down the path of fixing her using the Resurrection Protocols.

Sorry I didn´t ask this before but I am curious why do you think Lorna was a little jealous of Wanda in Genosha?

Lorna and Magneto's relationship then was father and daughter like without being officially related. Someone Magneto cares about in Lorna's mind far more shows up and it makes sense Lorna would subconsciously worry about being pushed out of the way. What worked for Lorna and Pietro in 1991-1993 and Lorna and Mags in 2000 was having some family relationship traits added into their interaction without the writers hammering the idea the way they had after they became officially related.

[Lucyinthesky]

Unless they are ready to undo the Uncanny Avengers retcon they aren't going to go down the path of fixing her using the Resurrection Protocols.

Agreed but I get the feeling that even if they undo the retcon it won´t be possible for Wanda to get back using the Resurrection protocols without her losing a part of her memories and I don´t really believe they will go that path so I think she will be back using magical means and it´s also highly probable she was killed by a magical foe. Then it´s also possible the body they found was fake.

Lorna and Magneto's relationship then was father and daughter like without being officially related. Someone Magneto cares about in Lorna's mind far more shows up and it makes sense Lorna would subconsciously worry about being pushed out of the way. What worked for Lorna and Pietro in 1991-1993 and Lorna and Mags in 2000 was having some family relationship traits added into their interaction without the writers hammering the idea the way they had after they became officially related.

Agreed completely it´s quite strange but they were writting with more nuance when they were not related than now that they are related,I think Pietro and Lorna still had nuance even after the revelation, it´s interesting but I don´t see friend Pietro lying to Lorna about Havok sending him there but brother Pietro seems to think he now has got to protect Lorna and lying to her is fair game as long as she´s safe, because now she´s his little sister but even in this case and I still could see their previous relationship in the way they were quite honest about their feelings after the fact.

Lorna and Magneto relationship is the one I see has suffered more after revelation if we compare it to the one they had previously but I think this is mostly because writers seem to think they have to re-write or develop a relationship between them instead of seeing what´s already there like Salarta said.

[jmc247]

Agreed completely it´s quite strange but they were writting with more nuance when they were not related than now that they are related,I think Pietro and Lorna still had nuance even after the revelation, it´s interesting but I don´t see friend Pietro lying to Lorna about Havok sending him there but brother Pietro seems to think he now has got to protect Lorna and lying to her is fair game as long as she´s safe, because now she´s his little sister but even in this case and I still could see their previous relationship in the way they were quite honest about their feelings after the fact.

Lorna and Magneto relationship is the one I see has suffered more after revelation if we compare it to the one they had previously but I think this is mostly because writers seem to think they have to re-write or develop a relationship between them instead of seeing what´s already there like Salarta said.

It wasn't just Pietro suddenly acting a bit too different. Lorna lashing out at him wildly accusing him of being bad dad. She was just too aggressive with too little reason for it and I am one who likes a Lorna more on the ruthless side of the line then she is usually depicted over the past twenty years, but she needs a reason. The House of M acting violently towards each other I am probably more ok with it then most if there is a solid reason for it as there was between Pietro and Magneto in House of M which didn't feel forced.

But, I agree with you Magneto and Polaris suffered the worst post parentage revelation. In X-Men Blue the basis seemed to be too much a generic forced good girl who is trying to understand her complex multifaceted dad. I remember reading that and thinking well some of their scenes are sweet, but its utterly missing Lorna's depth and the complexity their relationship had before then.

I understood part of that was the format as Magneto wasn't the iron fisted ruler of mutants anymore, but any moment of moral complexity Bunn would shift to a conversation with someone other then Lorna like Briar.

[Lucyinthesky]

It wasn't just Pietro suddenly acting a bit too different. Lorna lashing out at him wildly accusing him of being bad dad. She was just too aggressive with too little reason for it and I am one who likes a Lorna more on the ruthless side of the line then she is usually depicted over the past twenty years, but she needs a reason. The House of M acting violently towards each other I am probably more ok with it then most if there is a solid reason for it as there was between Pietro and Magneto in House of M which didn't feel forced.

When did she accuse Pietro of being a bad dad? sorry I can´t remember

Exactly, this was exactly my problem with that first scene they had together, yes we know Lorna was drunk, just lost her team and was still angry at Pietro for his part in HoM but the problem is that this felt completely out of the left field, because Pietro was there to help her and under different circunstances they could have fought yes but she would not have used weapons to attack him. This felt forced because we as the readers had no way to know why she was so angry at him.

But, I agree with you Magneto and Polaris suffered the worst post parentage revelation. In X-Men Blue the basis seemed to be too much a generic forced good girl who is trying to understand her complex multifaceted dad. I remember reading that and thinking well some of their scenes are sweet, but its utterly missing Lorna's depth and the complexity their relationship had before then.

Agreed completely

I understood part of that was the format as Magneto wasn't the iron fisted ruler of mutants anymore, but any moment of moral complexity Bunn would shift to a conversation with someone other then Lorna like Briar.

Yes we need scenes between them in which it´s remembered them both have layers and complexity to them otherwise their interaction will keep being a generic father/daughter relationship of overbearing father with heroic daughter fighting to overberaing father with heroic daughter having sweet scenes keeping them in a unequal relationship, when they used to talk issues as equals, an interaction that doesn´t have a lot of complexity to it, writers did better with nuance and complexity when they wrote teen Jean, Revolutionary Cyclops or Magik having Magneto as a parental figure than they are writting Lorna and Magneto as being actual family and it doesnt need to be that way.