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  1. #8806
    Mighty Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    I thought there was a whole thread proving that Jean was in fact not a racist and this illusion was only caused the prolonged physic rape caused by Mastermind and the then evil Emma Frost?

    When I'm bored and have nothing to do I'm going to turn that panel into a meme. That'll be the face I make when someone posts something - what's more polite than dumb?
    Well, some folks will go to any length to drive a wedge between Jean and Ororo's friendship.

  2. #8807
    Incredible Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Well, some folks will go to any length to drive a wedge between Jean and Ororo's friendship.
    And some folks will stir the pot just to try and start drama.
    You there, The Monstrous One. We Are Not Amused!

  3. #8808
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturius View Post
    No. The closest was Xtreme Xmen 22 I believe. But she has never apologized for it. In fact, she was combative about it. We have seen her apologize to Firestar and others she has wronged, but never Storm, which is why I can never accept them as anything more than tense colleagues. Until that happens, I can't get behind these two being friendly at all. Not realistic and I find it strange that no writer has had Frost actually utter the words I am sorry to Storm in the 30 years or so since it has happened. They're too busy having her shout out witty quips to do that I guess though.
    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    no not really. the giant size one shot referenced that period which her subconscious thoughts were still upset with Emma's actions.
    Shit, I have nothing to say about Emma, ​​I like her but I feel sad and frustrated to remember that moment, it's really bad to know that Ororo was almost abused, and then a white woman arrived and did what she did to satiate an old bastard..

  4. #8809
    Incredible Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Shit, I have nothing to say about Emma, ​​I like her but I feel sad and frustrated to remember that moment, it's really bad to know that Ororo was almost abused, and then a white woman arrived and did what she did to satiate an old bastard..
    The thing with Emma is you have to remember she was a villain. Villain's aren't suppose to be nice! You can dislike her for her b!tchy attitude which I do sometimes, but for past crimes she does have the villain thing pretty much shielding her.
    You there, The Monstrous One. We Are Not Amused!

  5. #8810
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    The thing with Emma is you have to remember she was a villain. Villain's aren't suppose to be nice! You can dislike her for her b!tchy attitude which I do sometimes, but for past crimes she does have the villain thing pretty much shielding her.
    On the one hand, you're right, for what little I know about Emma, ​​I know she's already gone through a phase of redemption, but I find it very annoying that the two of them never talked about it, as well as Jean...

    Changing the subject a bit, Sword #11 cover, I'm really excited to see the Storm kick some alien asses (I'm ignoring Cable in the center of this cover)


  6. #8811
    Incredible Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    On the one hand, you're right, for what little I know about Emma, ​​I know she's already gone through a phase of redemption, but I find it very annoying that the two of them never talked about it, as well as Jean...

    Changing the subject a bit, Sword #11 cover, I'm really excited to see the Storm kick some alien asses (I'm ignoring Cable in the center of this cover)

    With Emma it pops up when it's convenient. I don't think the Jean thing is ever really going to be referenced unless there's a writer who really has this idea about it. But even then, editorial may shoot it down.



    I know it's just a cover but it annoys me a little that Storm is letting herself get that close to a opponent.
    You there, The Monstrous One. We Are Not Amused!

  7. #8812
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    With Emma it pops up when it's convenient. I don't think the Jean thing is ever really going to be referenced unless there's a writer who really has this idea about it. But even then, editorial may shoot it down.



    I know it's just a cover but it annoys me a little that Storm is letting herself get that close to a opponent.
    its so incredibly silly of her to do that

    this one was insanely idiotic.




    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  8. #8813
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    I thought there was a whole thread proving that Jean was in fact not a racist and this illusion was only caused the prolonged physic rape caused by Mastermind and the then evil Emma Frost?
    Claremont never specifies which of Jean's "innermost forbidden needs and desires" Mastermind is manipulating nor with which he is presenting her. What Claremont does make clear, however, is that Mastermind, with the help of Emma Frost, is able to not only control what Jean sees but also what she thinks, feels, and believes. As Scott notes in the panel below, "This 'ancestor' – Lady Jean Grey, wife of Sir Jason Wyngarde – knows nothing of the X-Men. Her allegiance is to the Hellfire Club. If they ask her to kill us… I've a nasty feeling she'll do it without a second thought." The villain of the piece making the heroin completely forget who she is, who her friends and family are, and even where and when she is from seems like a monumental aspect of this story to overlook.



    Jean "knows nothing" of people she has known for years, some for decades, and that she literally grew up with, yet is somehow acting totally on her "innermost forbidden needs and desires?" If the implication is that she has always harbored racist feelings, why stop there? Based on the setup, one can suppose that she must have always had a need and desire to fall in love with Mastermind, forget not just her close friends and romantic partner, but her entire life, including her family, identity, and the era into which she was born. One can also assume that she always had a need and desire to live in the antebellum 18th century as a black cape-, bodice-, and panty-wearing woman.

    This begs the question, though: If Mastermind was simply giving Jean her "innermost forbidden needs and desires," why would he require the use of such illusions and severe mind control? After all, when Jean finally breaks from his illusions and telepathic hold, he ponders, "She must have broken my control, but how?"








    It is clear that what Mastermind was tapping into and giving Jean was a manufactured sense of love, romance, danger, and power based on her "innermost forbidden needs and desires" for those things, i.e., love, romance, danger, and power, not the illusions he cloaked them in nor the mind control he used to force those illusion inside of her, amongst – shudder the thought – other things. I hardly doubt that Claremont intended to suggest that, in addition to "need[ing]" and "desir[ing]" to be a racist and own a slave, Jean also "need[ed]" and "desire[ed]" to forget her entire identity and loved ones, live in the antebellum period, frolic around in a bodice and panties, and enslave all of her friends. After all, Claremont did write "needs and desires," not "true thoughts and feelings."

    Of course, people who like to pretend to be aghast at this scene to claim that Jean is a racist character do not seem to mind the author who penned this tale. In fact, they even lavish praise on him and sometimes proudly promote his name like a brand in their signatures. I find this puzzling, especially if the intent is to call out racism and not really just to insult a character they seem to hate, along with trying to sully and shame said character's fans. (After all, these characters are fictional and their thoughts, feelings, and intentions are dictated by the writers...) The fact that they so easily "sweep" the psychic and strongly implied physical rape "under the rug" as if it were just an insignificant little detail certainly does not belie their intentions.

    The real unspoken crime and tragedy of the Dark Phoenix Saga and how some choose to view it for their own nefarious reasons is not the racism that some maliciously and unfoundedly claim Jean "need[ed] and desire[d]," but the willingness to overlook the abuse a character was subjected to as if one should call it by any other name. A woman's psyche was invaded only to be contorted, contaminated, and, ultimately, controlled. If that weren't bad enough, the woman was also sexualized and placed in sexually compromising positions, to say the least. The redemptive irony here is that the one character that intuited and truly got what had transpired just so happens to be the character that should have been the most incensed and offended; that is, of course, if this claim of Jean being a racist contained a modicum of logic, critical thinking, or veracity.







    Finally, to add insult to injury, the same character that was instrumental in the carrying out of the aforementioned perpetrations against Jean would later take control of and use Ororo's body in questionable ways, including in a sexually provocative way. However, that isn't given much thought and consideration because she's "a bad girl." Food for thought.

  9. #8814
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    Storm keeps proving she has psionic empathy abilities that arent just nature-based.

  10. #8815
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    1. When the matrix energy was beginning to fade Roma turned to the energy of Otherworld as her power source that sustains her and the nexus of creation Otherworld.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...9709-74733.jpg

    2. It was stated in the early 2000s that the magical energy of Otherworld was the source of magic in the Marvel Multiverse. Otherworld is the dimension that intercepts all universes in existence.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...ONEnQ%3Ds0.jpg
    3. Otherworld is a pan-dimension realm that would make the energy there pan-dimensional
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...34563-sw33.png
    4. Meggan used this power to close the rift in reality that would contain the chaos wave. Once again stated the powers of Otherworld is pan-dimensional
    https://imgur.com/a/miRiITK

    5. Though she lost Roma was able to put up a fight against the Chaos Wave
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/BMKxvGn5zn...Cl9cmSSP=s1600

    6. The power of Otherworld is powerful enough to do all this yet when Roma uses it at full power on Adversary, he laughs it off. Yet he easily got overpowered by Storm's goddess powers.
    https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...5g%3Ds1600.jpg



    So my question is do you'll think Hadari Yao and Phoenix Jean are one the same level?
    Last edited by KLY360; 09-17-2021 at 04:46 AM.

  11. #8816
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    It's always interesting to me that while the characters have clearly moved past and moved on from personal grievances the fans are still stuck toting feelings and resentments, decades later. Assuming Storm and Emma haven't dealt with their past in some manner...how does sitting down and dredging it up now serve any storytelling purpose? Because logically speaking, to get to the point where they're hugging it out over the death of a character they both love and admire means they would have to have come to some easy understanding at least over past transgressions.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Planet Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  12. #8817
    Fantastic Member Sunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    it actually hasn't been coming out every month. I think its been about two between this and the last issue. I'm not sure with sales its actually a really good book even before storm was announced on the team.
    This has been my issue with the book. How often it comes out then its story was paused for that knull mess. Its frustrating since it's a great book. I love what Ewing has been doing with Eden.

  13. #8818
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    And some folks will stir the pot just to try and start drama.
    boom and there it is!!

    Quote Originally Posted by twisted sun View Post
    This has been my issue with the book. How often it comes out then its story was paused for that knull mess. Its frustrating since it's a great book. I love what Ewing has been doing with Eden.
    yea the event certainly didn't help and the long gaps between each issue really hurts the book.



    can we just pause and take a moment to reflect on the one panel that broke the internet!!!




    #queensh!t
    #goddessflex
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  14. #8819
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    With Emma it pops up when it's convenient. I don't think the Jean thing is ever really going to be referenced unless there's a writer who really has this idea about it. But even then, editorial may shoot it down.



    I know it's just a cover but it annoys me a little that Storm is letting herself get that close to a opponent.
    if Jean wasn't there, the Guardians would kick Emma lolol

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    its so incredibly silly of her to do that

    this one was insanely idiotic.




    I don't really like this phase of the x-mens, and it was one of the first ones I read lol

  15. #8820
    Fantastic Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLY360 View Post
    1. When the matrix energy was beginning to fade Roma turned to the energy of Otherworld as her power source that sustains her and the nexus of creation Otherworld.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...9709-74733.jpg

    2. It was stated in the early 2000s that the magical energy of Otherworld was the source of magic in the Marvel Multiverse. Otherworld is the dimension that intercepts all universes in existence.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...ONEnQ%3Ds0.jpg
    3. Otherworld is a pan-dimension realm that would make the energy there pan-dimensional
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...34563-sw33.png
    4. Meggan used this power to close the rift in reality that would contain the chaos wave. Once again stated the powers of Otherworld is pan-dimensional
    https://imgur.com/a/miRiITK

    5. Though she lost Roma was able to put up a fight against the Chaos Wave
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/BMKxvGn5zn...Cl9cmSSP=s1600

    6. The power of Otherworld is powerful enough to do all this yet when Roma uses it at full power on Adversary, he laughs it off. Yet he easily got overpowered by Storm's goddess powers.
    https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...5g%3Ds1600.jpg



    So my question is do you'll think Hadari Yao and Phoenix Jean are one the same level?
    Is the opponent a multiversal or omniversal being?

    I wish I had seen more in Coates' run, Hadari Yao vs. Sekafo, him causing a massive distortion, using chaos, and then he was defeated, Hadari Yao using his forces to reverse all distortion, referencing who Hadari is Yao, but I liked it anyway..

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