Ororo Munroe: Storm/Hadari Yao Appreciation 2021

[Devaishwarya]

My personal take...

I liked the pairing initially, and thought it made sense, and looked really good, on paper. I know some readers were asking for "buildup" to the marriage but...this is comics, you really don't need a year's worth of issues (which could be anywhere from 24 hours to a month given the sliding time scale) to establish romance and a relationship...but I digress, there was precedence under Claremont (not JD's trash) when they both met in their teens and she saved him. So "Yes to the Dress!" I get wanting and having the Black Power Couple thing, Americans love their labels and imagery, and Hudlin was/is quintessentially a high-profile Black American in Entertainment and wrote them in that vein. Enh! He had some good moments and some not so good ones. McDuffie wrote them the best I think in his New F4 limited series.

I wholly agree with JWat...in that if they had put much more effort into giving them equal billing on their title and in their stories it would have worked. But they didn't give Storm that respect she had earned and deserved as a leading X-Man. Which worked against both characters in the long-run.

Now...when Hudlin (the sole driving force behind the marriage) left, Editorial clearly had no interest in continuing the marriage for...reasons. I would say racism, stupidity, incompetence, ignorance, ennui, apathy as the leading causes, and that's how we got AvX and the ultimate dissolution and annulment of the marriage. And that ending was really the very worst shyt-icing on the garbage and sewerage that was the AvX cake. And the resulting post break-up wasn't written well on both sides either...not the X-Men for Storm, not in BP for T'Challa.

It is what it is, and can't be what it ain't...they both moved on and like their fans, were okies and doing well.

Until...Coates.

Goddess alone knows I didn't read past the first "season" so I cannot objectively speak to what came after but...nobody and no one was clamouring to have them back together, romantically...not after their shyt-show of a break-up. I vehemently hated that he brought them back together. Why would editorial allow him to do this? Much like 'acclaimed' Hudlin, 'acclaimed' Coates clearly had his own reasons and misplaced racial agenda, for writing them romantically involved that had very little to do with uplifting both characters equally, so the opposite occurred. Storm got "pushed and developed" while T'Challa was sidelined, in his own damn book. Literary Karma? More like very poor writing skills.

So yes, I rejoiced when Marauders 13 came out.
Both these awesome and titular characters don't need shitty authors writing bad fan-fiction about them. That "ship" sailed, hit some bad weather, sunk, and is now lying at the very bottom of the Mariana trench, hopefully never to be exhumed ever again.

[skyvolt2000]

this is something that I have always been hesitant to ask, why so much animosity regarding Storm and Black Panther's relationship. I always thought it was a cool little idea, powerful black icons come together and become the black power couple of comics; made sense enough. but I've always notice they are like a faction or section of fans who just vehemently hate the idea to a kinda weird degree I notice it particularly among the BP fans but I think that may have something to do with the BP fans here not liking Coates work. is/was there some sort of problematic element about it (maybe something I'm missing as someone who isn't the deepest Storm or T'Challa expert) or is it just a lowkey shipping "she's/he's not the one i would've had him/her with" type thing?

If everyone was on board with it from day one-you would have seen a better result. I can understand why they did it but the dynamics of it did not work.

The push back was it seemed rushed for two folks who did not interact with each other as much unlike Rogue/Gambit or Batman/Catwoman/Wonder Woman or Harley/Ivy.
It would have been different if we saw them together and it grew over time like Riker/Troi on Star Trek TNG.

It seems writers NOT named Hudlin or McDuffie tried to put something into that relationship while everyone did not.
Then came the Tyler Perry moment in AvX along with the flood by Namor. Panther bashing followed with Storm being used as the mouth piece for it in the X-books.

EVERYONE wanted to move on. Then came COATES. Who did not care for Black Panther to begin with.

Black Panther book and spinoffs were stealth solos for other folks. Storm got development that she was LACKING in her own franchise for 20 years. However that development was IGNORED for the most part by the X-Office and others.

So now you have 2 upset fanbases. Panther fans who want the Black Panther they saw in Redjack's one shot and Storm fans who want to see the development they saw in a solo book STARRING Storm.

I would've asked in the BP thread but the BP thread gets kinda dramatic over Storm or Coates in my experience.

Because Unfans and others kept running in there attacking & lecturing fans on accepting crappy writing. On accepting stuff that would NOT be acceptable if it was done in Batman, Cap America, Flash, Thor or even a Storm book.
And some of the folks doing it have NEVER read Coates book. Never cared for Storm either. It's the same mess you see in black character threads.

[MindofShadow]

I would've asked in the BP thread but the BP thread gets kinda dramatic over Storm or Coates in my experience.

You thought you could hide from us in here!!!!????

Lol.


Short Answer: Big chunk of Storm fan's think Storm was taking a back seat to Black Panther in the union. Big chunk of BP fans think BP was taking a back seat to Storm in the union. Add in a dose of X-men editorial fuckery, Marvel head honchos not knowing what to do with the MCU guiding everything, and it ended up a big ol mess where neither fan base was happy with it in general. Everyone gets over it, until some X-writer wants to revisit it just to stir drama. Rinse and repeat the last sentence.

TBH, Chadwick dying and T'challa being written out of the MCU probably 100% ends the relationship completely so in the end it won't matter much in a handful of years lol.

[Devaishwarya]

You thought you could hide from us in here!!!!????

Lol.


Short Answer: Big chunk of Storm fan's think Storm was taking a back seat to Black Panther in the union. Big chunk of BP fans think BP was taking a back seat to Storm in the union. Add in a dose of X-men editorial fuckery, Marvel head honchos not knowing what to do with the MCU guiding everything, and it ended up a big ol mess where neither fan base was happy with it in general. Everyone gets over it, until some X-writer wants to revisit it just to stir drama. Rinse and repeat the last sentence.

TBH, Chadwick dying and T'challa being written out of the MCU probably 100% ends the relationship completely so in the end it won't matter much in a handful of years lol.

And with Storm heading off to space for a spell...and really, it doesn't matter much now. So...
Praise Bast and Thank the Goddess!
So mote it be.

[yogaflame]

BP King in Black was great. Gorgeous art, colors, and classical T'Challa. I don't even care that he didn't give 2 cents about Ororo, he just handled his business. I hope this trend continues(them going their own paths). Looks like KIB #4 will feature the X-Men.

[MindofShadow]

BP King in Black was great. Gorgeous art, colors, and classical T'Challa. I don't even care that he didn't give 2 cents about Ororo, he just handled his business. I hope this trend continues(them going their own paths). Looks like KIB #4 will feature the X-Men.

.. he did care? The whole point of that is that he can't do anytihng about it now and he has to worry about his country.

Even shuri cared.

But t'challa had to bury his feelings to get his job done.

How could you read it any other way?

[yogaflame]

.. he did care? The whole point of that is that he can't do anytihng about it now and he has to worry about his country.

Even shuri cared.

But t'challa had to bury his feelings to get his job done.

How could you read it any other way?

I'm glad the gulf is widening. He did what he had to do. He will always be Wakanda's servant first and foremost. It's why their relationship never had a chance.

[butterflykyss]

this is something that I have always been hesitant to ask, why so much animosity regarding Storm and Black Panther's relationship. I always thought it was a cool little idea, powerful black icons come together and become the black power couple of comics; made sense enough. but I've always notice they are like a faction or section of fans who just vehemently hate the idea to a kinda weird degree I notice it particularly among the BP fans but I think that may have something to do with the BP fans here not liking Coates work. is/was there some sort of problematic element about it (maybe something I'm missing as someone who isn't the deepest Storm or T'Challa expert) or is it just a lowkey shipping "she's/he's not the one i would've had him/her with" type thing? I would've asked in the BP thread but the BP thread gets kinda dramatic over Storm or Coates in my experience.

Hello beloved and welcome to the Storm forum. I would just like to start off by saying there are many readers who do in fact love this two as a couple for the reasons you have mentioned. Its hard to see it on CBR at times but I frequent many social media forums every fans love the two together.

Your reasons as to why some don't like the pairing definitely has to do with those you mentioned not liking Coates work. The level of reaching that these critics go to many times is far-fetched and hypocritical in many ways. When you actually start digging deeper into their criticism it becomes apparent they have very little understand of 616 canon, which makes it glaringly clear that the biases do result solely of disliking his work.

That said, a lot of the hate you see on both sides of the shipping seems to how the pair was treated when they were married by hudlin. Storm fans resented the fact she was stripped away from the xmen. They blame the marriage on her demise in the xbooks. This sentiment to me is ridiculous because if the xwriters wanted to write and include her in xbooks they would have. The reality here is they simply didn't want to write her and wanted to focus on their Alpha male cyclops. Morever, these fans felt storm voice was mininimized which I can understand this argument in comparison to Claremont; however, hudlin did more to elevate her status in the MU by making her queen, he gave her a family beyond the xmen, and her made her a potential omega level mutant. This development simply WAS NOT happening with the x-men during this time and her stature within the xbooks was well on the decline prior to hudlin.

BP fans alternatively did not like the pairing because they felt the xoffices shaded tchalla. I actually think this was a fair assessment. At the time I didn't see this but hindsight is 20/20. The xmen have been known for not being diverse and showcasing black men in a positive light. Where hudlin was trying to showcase two black characters lovingly, the xwriters took painstakingly obvious measures to show the opposite. Ororo complained of boring sex and shopping sprees and even showed her casually flirting with cyclops. This unfortunately still exists to this day as shown most recently by Vita's writing in Marauders.

Add to the aforementioned the way the marriage ended. it showed two black heterosexual characters engaging in domestic violence, and then had storm thereafter behaving less than a goddess-like manner when she became wolverines sex toy. What coates i believe effectively did was showcase the two both in a loving way where both characters exhibited their strengths. The problem however here, which I think some BP fans complaints become invalid, is that they want tchalla to be the big bad all the time even when it doesn't make sense to do. No matter what they may tell you BP doesn't have the tools to defeat a universal chaos god. I guess you could argue that storm shouldn't be their but that ship sailed when hudkin decided to wed the two. Storm is forever tied to Wakanda and thst is just the reality. After Coates' years of working to repair the missteps of the past the xoffices again would do what they are known best to do which was showcase black heterosexual couples in toxic ways as evident by marauders 13.

Ultimately, just keep in mind there are some who don't like the pairing for a wide range of reasons but they don't necessarily stem from Coates primarily.

I didn't really care for BP: KiB. There were some nice parts but considering the writer has made known publicly his thoughts on topics particularly the xmen it made some of writing hard to read.

1. The interactions between the characters seemed very rigid and almost impersonal at times. It would make sense to see lower ranking members of the nation so reverent as they were towards tchalla but the way oyoye and shuri were seemed OOC.

2. Thorne has made pretty clear he doesn't like the xmem, which is fine, but why then do you feel the need to incorporate elements of its lore to make the point of how formidable Wakanda is. So Wakanda has an entity meant to defeat the Phoenix yet it didn't appear during AvX nor did it appear in Aaron's current Phoenix story? Yea no that doesn't ring true at all especially considering the writer's opinion on the xmen

3. The issue in and of itself seemed to wrap up too nicely in a way that doesn't coincide with any of the other tie-ins. The Knull has engulfed the entire earth, has killed sentry conquered celestial yet wakanda could easily clear the atmosphere without the knull god sensing this and not immediately going to investigate this threat to his assault on earth?

4. Lastly, storm's inclusion made absolutely no sense. it was clear she was there only to shade her. Al Ewing I thought did a beautiful job incorporating Coates space run in a respectful way that made sense to the story and without the obvious need to disrupt what another writer had established. (i guess now diatractora can't say his run is not canon) I believe both this bp writer and specifically vita should take note.

[Rang10]

You thought you could hide from us in here!!!!????

Lol.


Short Answer: Big chunk of Storm fan's think Storm was taking a back seat to Black Panther in the union. Big chunk of BP fans think BP was taking a back seat to Storm in the union. Add in a dose of X-men editorial fuckery, Marvel head honchos not knowing what to do with the MCU guiding everything, and it ended up a big ol mess where neither fan base was happy with it in general. Everyone gets over it, until some X-writer wants to revisit it just to stir drama. Rinse and repeat the last sentence.

TBH, Chadwick dying and T'challa being written out of the MCU probably 100% ends the relationship completely so in the end it won't matter much in a handful of years lol.

won't matter because of another universe? what logic is this?

[BlackClaw]

won't matter because of another universe? what logic is this?

Never underestimate the power that synergy has. I won’t be surprised if they find a way to shelve T’Challa in the comics since Feige is pretty adamant on not recasting him in the MCU.

[butterflykyss]

And I just wanted to also add that those stating that the two were put together simply because they were black support my earlier point that some readers are not well versed on 616 canon.

Prior to the their marriage both the xbooks and the bp books made very clear the two had a deep affinity for one another:

[Rang10]

Never underestimate the power that synergy has. I won’t be surprised if they find a way to shelve T’Challa in the comics since Feige is pretty adamant on not recasting him in the MCU.

Synergy is when writers/editors has no fresh ideas. Has been a long time since Hawkeye an black widow are on avengers main team.
I'm not gainst some synergy here and there, the problem is when it is used all the time to guide characters/stories.
ororo/clack panther not happening on MCU takes zero away from comics

[BlackClaw]

Synergy is when writers/editors has no fresh ideas. Has been a long time since Hawkeye an black widow are on avengers main team.
I'm not gainst some synergy here and there, the problem is when it is used all the time to guide characters/stories.
ororo/clack panther not happening on MCU takes zero away from comics

But movies can influence comics in a big way. You notice how Okoye was a teenager during Priests run but now she’s a grown woman? That’s thanks to the movie. You notice how Shuri has a design that looks a lot like Letitia Wright? Also thanks to the movie. I get what you’re saying but don’t entirely count out the MCU having an effect on Ororo’s relationship with T’Challa in the comics.

[Rang10]

But movies can influence comics in a big way. You notice how Okoye was a teenager during Priests run but now she’s a grown woman? That’s thanks to the movie. You notice how Shuri has a design that looks a lot like Letitia Wright? Also thanks to the movie. I get what you’re saying but don’t entirely count out the MCU having an effect on Ororo’s relationship with T’Challa in the comics.

Like I said both influence each other, but shouldn't be reason things happen. It is far ore likely that X-office wants full control of Ororo again and many black panthers fans/writers are tired of being humiliated on x-men books than it is because of MCU.
Coates getting them back together was after black panther was introduced on MCU

[lemonpeace]

hmmm so from what I'm gathering, in broad strokes, the breakdown mainly boils down to the BP/Marvel creative branch and the X-Men creative branch not being on the same page and enabling petty digs at the other camp. which I can see happening, especially from what I hear about the lengths Marvel went to undercut the X-Men at certain points in their history. there appears to have been some execution issues (that I clearly need to look into for a better idea) but it seems like outside of personal grievances the concept itself is viable if Marvel just sat down and worked it out. I think Storm's connection to Wakanda and their pantheon was a cool marriage of ideas, shame it ended up coming with so many hang-ups. given how much it appears to seesaw it might be for the best to leave well enough alone but, as someone who came up entirely removed from the drama of it, i would kinda like it if they figured it out one day. then again, I'm also someone rooting for John Stewart and Yrra Cyril to reconcile, so maybe I'm not the best judge in these things. anyway thanks for the responses tho.