Ororo Munroe: Storm/Hadari Yao Appreciation 2021

[jwatson]

uncanny 387. I like to point to this issue to show even the xoffices understood their connection and established it before hudlin was a factor.



yes that is it essentially and this pettiness is amplified by the portion of the fsndom that get satisfaction in that to degree.

I think Coates handled it fine. if big names like catwoman and batman can work surely tchalla and ororo can.

And if they got the continous history of Selene and Batman it would have work. Though alot of fans were upset that Tom King went on for so long and then Bruce and Selena didn't even end up getting married so not sure if that's the best example. If they wanted they could have done the dance with Tchalla and Storm for awhile but that would take time, and issues, and money, and marvel wasn't here for that. No one can ever convince me that Tchalla and Ororo got the same respect any of these white couples get.

[butterflykyss]

I am European, and honestly, I was not shocked by that. You see at my country we have black minority and I do read about African traditions and stories, what happened between T'Challa and Ororo, when Ororo was at twelve is not something surprising. Those who actually read about African traditions, and some of their stories followed by a few other tribes that represent closely Africans, you will find out that at age 8 to 10 the boy chooses his girl (I will add here important note. Ororo asked T'Challa if he had someone special and he told her that he didn't find the right girl yet) and after that, the boy starts to flirt, the girl has the freedom to accept his flirts or decline his advances. If the girl responds positively at age of 12 to 15 the girl loses her virginity to the boy. When it comes to African traditions, what happened between T'Challa and Ororo is not a shock, it is natural. Yes, it happened a bit too fast. I agree with that, but here is the moment when I will input European term, first-sight love. Something which Americans fail to understand most of the time because they see love and marriage differently.

In my personal opinion, everything was natural between Ororo and T'Challa and if Americans have problems with that, then they should probably pull their heads out of the ground and actually sit and read more about African history and traditions. It is rich.



Once more, jwatson, I am sorry to do this to you, but I re-read the Black Panther Intergalactic storyline again, like yesterday so I can catch up with the new upcoming issues that will mark the end of it, and I must be honest with you. I really, really, honestly and very deeply think that you've misunderstood Storm's words. You need to concentrate on the entire event that has happened, Storm showed maturity, Black Panther showed maturity, I really, really don't see anything wrong at all with what happened, having in mind that Storm never told Nakia, you can have my man. I believe you intercepted her words wrongly.

She asked her to defend him and protect him, just like the Dora Mijare (Sorry if I pronounced that wrong) would do, but Storm DOES NOT tell her, you can have my husband, she tells her that she hopes she will keep protecting him and be his faithful soldier, Guardian, even but nothing among the lines of what you assumed Storm told.

Storm clearly states a few bubbles before that she is trying to control her jealousy side, because if Storm didn't control herself, Nakia would have been burned alive and broken to million frozen pieces. Ororo loves T'Challa a lot, and T'Challa proves that as well with KIB: BP issue that came out this week. I am actually quite happy with how T'Challa handled the situation, he admitted his strong, powerful feelings for her but he is fully aware that there is nothing that he can do for her right at that moment and his country was at the danger he needed to prioritize and for that, I do respect T'Challa once more. I just hope that they don't ruin that moment with the next few issues.

you're spot on here and I completely agree with your breakdown. Coates was demonstrating in Ororo's ability to process what occurred to tchalla her confidence in herself as a woman and in him in their relationship. she never told her to sleep with tchalla or that she was ok with them dating. nothing even close to that happened.


oan I would like to remind everyone that ororo and tchalla original meeting was retconned back to the Claremont version as supported by the amazing xmen annual

[jwatson]

You know i still wonder how people get that Storm was 25 when xmen started. I know weird thought. But her powers she had at 12 and she met xavier before that and it was stated she didn't meet him again for a decade. But the decade wasn't from when her powers manifested at 12 it was from when she ran into shadow king.

But to the amazing xmen annual, i always wondered if the old lady was suppose to be gaia meeting storm.

[Havok83]

You know i still wonder how people get that Storm was 25 when xmen started. I know weird thought. But her powers she had at 12 and she met xavier before that and it was stated she didn't meet him again for a decade. But the decade wasn't from when her powers manifested at 12 it was from when she ran into shadow king.

Her age was given in one of Claremont's early issues. UXM 102 dated her being born in 1951 and that came out in 1974. That would have made her 25 in the issue, which tracks bc the original X-men were early 20s

[jwatson]

Her age was given in one of Claremont's early issues. UXM 102 dated her being born in 1951 and that came out in 1974. That would have made her 25 in the issue, which tracks bc the original X-men were early 20s

So it was closer to two decades since charles saw her with the shadow king. Thats a big different. But by those dates that would make her 23, which actually falls far closer to the numbers in my head of 20-22 depending on birthday.

[Phoenixx9]

Her age was given in one of Claremont's early issues. UXM 102 dated her being born in 1951 and that came out in 1974. That would have made her 25 in the issue, which tracks bc the original X-men were early 20s

You wrote "1974", but I think you meant 1976, which would correlate with your date of Ororo being 25 in 1976 XM #102.

[Havok83]

You wrote "1974", but I think you meant 1976, which would correlate with your date of Ororo being 25 in 1976 XM #102.

yeah it was 1976. Typo. Thanks

So it was closer to two decades since charles saw her with the shadow king. Thats a big different. But by those dates that would make her 23, which actually falls far closer to the numbers in my head of 20-22 depending on birthday.

It was a typo

[Daedra]

Should Ororo be ageless?

[butterflykyss]

And if they got the continous history of Selene and Batman it would have work. Though alot of fans were upset that Tom King went on for so long and then Bruce and Selena didn't even end up getting married so not sure if that's the best example. If they wanted they could have done the dance with Tchalla and Storm for awhile but that would take time, and issues, and money, and marvel wasn't here for that. No one can ever convince me that Tchalla and Ororo got the same respect any of these white couples get.

who says they didn't work? Coates to me and many others show they can work and Al Ewing showed writers in the xoffices don't have to be petty when handling black male characters


That said I do agree about the respect of them in comparison to white ones.

[Stormrocks]

My thoughts exactly.

Claremont made his view crystal clear in that first story:



Friendzone. FOREVER.

Yep. This is spot on.

I, too, tried to give their relationship a try. Though I hated how they came together with no courtship, I previously really enjoyed both characters. I gave their relationship a fair shake and I actually enjoyed them on the F4 together. Dwayne Mcduffie wrote them very well together. Unfortunately after they left the F4 and his pen, they never found their footing again as a couple and I found it sweet relief when they separated. I didn't enjoy Coates Black Panther run at all. Despite the feats, I didn't like his Storm either. Conversely, I am enjoying Hickman's storm and I am looking forward to seeing what the future has for her.

[Jalysia]

I guess you right, but I'm glad that it's canon that their each other first . Young love to true love.

Which was later retconned in an Annual post divorce. And with good reason, they drew T'Challa and Ororo, who canonically were supposed to be 11/12 to look like 17/18 year olds just so they can depict them having sex.

But if you like that shit...um ew.

[Rang10]

Which was later retconned in an Annual post divorce. And with good reason, they drew T'Challa and Ororo, who canonically were supposed to be 11/12 to look like 17/18 year olds just so they can depict them having sex.

But if you like that shit...um ew.

IDK how that story was printed. They were kids, that shouldnt happen on superhero comics. Claremont fixed it an it is better

who says they didn't work? Coates to me and many others show they can work and Al Ewing showed writers in the xoffices don't have to be petty when handling black male characters


That said I do agree about the respect of them in comparison to white ones.

It was refreshing to see it

[yogaflame]

You know i still wonder how people get that Storm was 25 when xmen started. I know weird thought. But her powers she had at 12 and she met xavier before that and it was stated she didn't meet him again for a decade. But the decade wasn't from when her powers manifested at 12 it was from when she ran into shadow king.

Storm was about 6 when she picked Xavier's pocket. Eleven when she left Cairo. 12 when she met T'Challa and arrived in Kenya. Claremont does age her at about 25 in the early Phoenix saga. Jean is 24 when she dies in DPS. Considering the characters are still barely 30, it makes sense to deage them to be about 21/22 back then instead, so that Kitty can still age up from 13.5-at least 21 or so now.

So it was closer to two decades since charles saw her with the shadow king. Thats a big different. But by those dates that would make her 23, which actually falls far closer to the numbers in my head of 20-22 depending on birthday.

Should Ororo be ageless?

I liked Wein/Cockrum's immortal goddess origin too, but with the sliding timeline/retcons, the characters are essentially ageless.

[Cville]

I didn't really care for BP: KiB. There were some nice parts but considering the writer has made known publicly his thoughts on topics particularly the xmen it made some of writing hard to read.

1. The interactions between the characters seemed very rigid and almost impersonal at times. It would make sense to see lower ranking members of the nation so reverent as they were towards tchalla but the way oyoye and shuri were seemed OOC.

2. Thorne has made pretty clear he doesn't like the xmem, which is fine, but why then do you feel the need to incorporate elements of its lore to make the point of how formidable Wakanda is. So Wakanda has an entity meant to defeat the Phoenix yet it didn't appear during AvX nor did it appear in Aaron's current Phoenix story? Yea no that doesn't ring true at all especially considering the writer's opinion on the xmen

3. The issue in and of itself seemed to wrap up too nicely in a way that doesn't coincide with any of the other tie-ins. The Knull has engulfed the entire earth, has killed sentry conquered celestial yet wakanda could easily clear the atmosphere without the knull god sensing this and not immediately going to investigate this threat to his assault on earth?

4. Lastly, storm's inclusion made absolutely no sense. it was clear she was there only to shade her. Al Ewing I thought did a beautiful job incorporating Coates space run in a respectful way that made sense to the story and without the obvious need to disrupt what another writer had established. (i guess now diatractora can't say his run is not canon) I believe both this bp writer and specifically vita should take note.

The bolded was my reaction too. They just kept repeating their arguments as if stuck in a loop. If content pages 4 thru 17 had been cut down to 3 or 4 pages, I would have given it a 9 out of 10.

[butterflykyss]

Should Ororo be ageless?

most comic characters are "ageless" to a degree.

IDK how that story was printed. They were kids, that shouldnt happen on superhero comics. Claremont fixed it an it is better



It was refreshing to see it

it sure was and such a pleasant surprise. Ewing just put to bed any claim Coates run is somehow fanfic.

The bolded was my reaction too. They just kept repeating their arguments as if stuck in a loop. If content pages 4 thru 17 had been cut down to 3 or 4 pages, I would have given it a 9 out of 10.

the storm pages could have been left out and more detail could have gone into the random Panther that could ward off Phoenix lol. people trash Coates for making storm a goddess which canonically makes sense but was cheering the anti-phoenix Panther on? yea I will pass.