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  1. #586
    Dark Dimension Clea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    In his defense, he'd just gotten back from a 5000-year-long magickal war, and his closet was a bit bare.



    I might quibble about martial arts movies.

    Actually, a lot of what we saw in the Strange movie reminds me of the more outre wuxia films, like Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain or Storm Riders
    OMG. You are so right about Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain! Directed by Tsui Hark! That movie is so much fun. I never thought about how well Doctor Strange aligns with a wuxia films, but now I can easily see how it works. I haven't seen Storm Riders. I'll have to find a copy somewhere.
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  2. #587
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    One thing I really liked about the first Strange movie was how far they leaned into the whole "Eastern mysticism" thing when it came to Stephen's magical training. And they did that by sending Stephen to Nepal. I loved the fact that Scott Derrickson settled on Kathmandu as a filming location for Doctor Strange mainly because tourists were fearful to go there in the wake of the April 2015 Nepal earthquake, hoping that putting the place on camera would help inspire more people to visit. It gave such an authenticity to the movie because it was based in the "real world", but in a very exotic location.

  3. #588

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    You know, you're right! I never watched any of those wuxia films, but I do know that Iron Fist was a master of the mystical arts as well in the comic books. So I guess martial arts and the supernatural definitely can mix. Thanks for reminding me. But you're never gonna see "magical" Godzilla vs Kong films!
    Well, some of the Ultraman series get pretty weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clea View Post
    OMG. You are so right about Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain! Directed by Tsui Hark! That movie is so much fun. I never thought about how well Doctor Strange aligns with a wuxia films, but now I can easily see how it works. I haven't seen Storm Riders. I'll have to find a copy somewhere.
    The animated Doctor Strange movie is even more so. I still wonder if it influenced the MCU film.

  4. #589
    Dark Dimension Clea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Well, some of the Ultraman series get pretty weird.



    The animated Doctor Strange movie is even more so. I still wonder if it influenced the MCU film.
    The animated Doctor Strange movie may have influenced Derrickson's film, but I don't recall him ever mentioning it. I've only ever seen the visual effects team talk about Escher, Inception, and Ditko as influences. You know, you could easily slide Kamar-Taj right into a wuxia setting and no one would even blink. I may never view Doctor Strange movies in the same way ever again. Thank you! I'm going to have to get out all my wuxia DVDs and have a mini film festival now. Or better yet, I'll watch Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain, then Big Trouble in Little China (which was influenced by Zu), then the Doctor Strange movie again. I'll bet they would all flow together well.
    Live Faust, Die Jung.

  5. #590
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Well, some of the Ultraman series get pretty weird.



    The animated Doctor Strange movie is even more so. I still wonder if it influenced the MCU film.
    Gotta look up some more information of Ultraman. Never saw any of his stuff. I AM aware that he is treated like Japan's version of Superman though. Thanks for the reference!

  6. #591
    Incredible Member Eto's Avatar
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    I've read Strange Tales #151-155

    #151
    Stephen doesn't need money heh, he can simply conjure it!
    I remember asking this question a few months ago and then someone posted a scan. Now I know it's from this issue!


    #153
    It was a mindless one all along instead of Clea?
    Bruh moment :/
    Umar is cunning indeed!



    Question regarding #154
    So to be clear,
    Strange left his body,
    powered it with his astral form and went in again,
    then he left his body again.

    Wasn't it in earlier issues established that once he leaves he's in ethereal form, he must quickly go back to his body because something might happen to it. Here we see his body shrugging off hits from a mindless one?


    Question regarding #155
    How does this make sense.....dammit Ancient One!
    You made not one but TWO mistakes in this issue.
    First you send Clea to her fate that is unknown and secondly you hold Stephen against his will with your spells saying he's doing it for his own good wth?!

  7. #592

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clea View Post
    The animated Doctor Strange movie may have influenced Derrickson's film, but I don't recall him ever mentioning it. I've only ever seen the visual effects team talk about Escher, Inception, and Ditko as influences. You know, you could easily slide Kamar-Taj right into a wuxia setting and no one would even blink. I may never view Doctor Strange movies in the same way ever again. Thank you! I'm going to have to get out all my wuxia DVDs and have a mini film festival now. Or better yet, I'll watch Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain, then Big Trouble in Little China (which was influenced by Zu), then the Doctor Strange movie again. I'll bet they would all flow together well.
    Jack Burton in a Doctor Strange movie...

    ...

    ...I can see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Gotta look up some more information of Ultraman. Never saw any of his stuff. I AM aware that he is treated like Japan's version of Superman though. Thanks for the reference!
    More like Captain Marvel (Fawcett/DC version) actually.

  8. #593
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Jack Burton in a Doctor Strange movie...

    ...

    ...I can see it.



    More like Captain Marvel (Fawcett/DC version) actually.
    Oh that dude. Thanks for clearing things up.

  9. #594
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Wow, I didn't know Bendis and Quesada ruined Strange like that! I don't hate either of those dudes. I vaguely remember that the work they did on Daredevil was pretty iconic. So I respect them for that. But maybe they were more suited for the "crime" corner of the Marvel Universe as oppose to the mystical "one"? I read a comment on a forum that had NOTHING to do with comic books, but the posters there seemed VERY aware of Marvel's stance on magic and its rules:

    "Does it need rules? Yes, at least at some level, in order to not just be a "do anything, anytime" ability -- which is the way people default to thinking of magic, if fairytales and children's stories are any indicator. Do those rules need an in-depth explanation in the text? Not necessarily. What's important is that the reader has a sense that the rules exist; whether it's because of insufficient newt eyeballs or because using magic requires burning calories or because magic only works in some places and not others, there needs to be a reason why magic can solve one problem and not another.
    Anyone that's read a fairy tale knows magic isn't a do anything, anytime ability. There are any number of restrictions and 'rules' on magic in fairy tales depending on the fairy tale. Cinderella's illusions only lasts to midnight and requires a physical anchor for the spell. The Little Mermaid can have legs, but can't speak, and pays a price for the magic. There's the Rule of Three, the Power of True Names, The Power of True Love, Faustian Bargains, etc. etc. etc. Stories don't need rule books for readers to understand magic has limits.

    It's Marvel's modern writers and editors that promote this ridiculous idea that magic is too powerful to incorporate into stories, and that Doctor Strange needs to be nerfed or he becomes a deus ex machina device.



    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Otherwise, you're falling back on "It's magic, we don't have to explain it", to quote Marvel when readers asked how Harry Osborn was alive again in the immediate aftermath of "One More Day". Well, if the readers are asking, not explaining it is going to leave you with readers who aren't satisfied with the story. It's very much a "good storytelling" issue. If magic can't do absolutely anything in all situations -- and the need for conflict demands that it can't -- there's got to be some kind of rule as to why.

    How in-depth those rules are, and how much detail they get in the text can vary, though. You can assign complex D&D-style rules (which are generally cited to be based on Vance's fantasy, not the other way around, incidentally), or you can leave it at a "what goes up comes down" level of complexity. And even if you have the complex rules you can use them only as author's notes, similar to the "series bibles" that television programs often have. And magic can be nebulous or it can be precise. It can all be done well. But in all cases, being done well requires that the reader has cause to believe that there's a reason why it behaves the way it does."

    I don't understand why "it's 'science,' we don't have to explain it," isn't an issue for you but "it's magic, we don't have to explain it" is an issue. Marvel completely ignores the the 'rules' of science and uses it a 'do anything, anytime,' power far worse than magic. Stark and Richards and Banner and T'challa and the rest of the polymath egg heads must have extra-dimensional rectums considering how often these guys have pulled some allegedly 'scientific' deus ex machina from their asses.
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  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    You know, you're right! I never watched any of those wuxia films, but I do know that Iron Fist was a master of the mystical arts as well in the comic books. So I guess martial arts and the supernatural definitely can mix. Thanks for reminding me. But you're never gonna see "magical" Godzilla vs Kong films!
    Where was Iron Fist a master of the mystical arts? Was this some Bendis ... stuff? I don't recall Iron Fist ever doing magic.
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  11. #596
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I might quibble about martial arts movies.

    Actually, a lot of what we saw in the Strange movie reminds me of the more outre wuxia films, like Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain or Storm Riders
    Yes! I love wuxia films! They are so gorgeous!


    Quote Originally Posted by Clea View Post
    OMG. You are so right about Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain! Directed by Tsui Hark! That movie is so much fun. I never thought about how well Doctor Strange aligns with a wuxia films, but now I can easily see how it works. I haven't seen Storm Riders. I'll have to find a copy somewhere.
    I recommend Storm Riders. I mean, Ekin Cheng and Aaron Kwok and Sonny Chiba ... how can you go wrong?

    Now I'm wondering, what would a Doctor Strange movie directed by a wuxia director would look like?



    Quote Originally Posted by Clea View Post
    The animated Doctor Strange movie may have influenced Derrickson's film, but I don't recall him ever mentioning it. I've only ever seen the visual effects team talk about Escher, Inception, and Ditko as influences. You know, you could easily slide Kamar-Taj right into a wuxia setting and no one would even blink. I may never view Doctor Strange movies in the same way ever again. Thank you! I'm going to have to get out all my wuxia DVDs and have a mini film festival now. Or better yet, I'll watch Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain, then Big Trouble in Little China (which was influenced by Zu), then the Doctor Strange movie again. I'll bet they would all flow together well.
    Oh no! I've got a backlog of movies and TV to watch! I. Must. Not. Give. In. To. Temptation.



    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Jack Burton in a Doctor Strange movie...

    ...

    ...I can see it.
    Well, there is Ego. Though Pratt's Star Lord could fit the bill, even if he isn't Kurt Russell.
    Last edited by Reviresco; 04-16-2021 at 12:07 AM.
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  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    Question regarding #154
    So to be clear,
    Strange left his body,
    powered it with his astral form and went in again,
    then he left his body again.

    Wasn't it in earlier issues established that once he leaves he's in ethereal form, he must quickly go back to his body because something might happen to it. Here we see his body shrugging off hits from a mindless one?
    I don't remember that particular issue, but I think Strange gets more proficient with his astral form abilities as time goes on. Also, how it works gets tweaked as more writers use it.
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  13. #598

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Now I'm wondering, what would a Doctor Strange movie directed by a wuxia director would look like?
    Probably something like Mr. Vampire or Magic Cop.

  14. #599
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I don't remember that particular issue, but I think Strange gets more proficient with his astral form abilities as time goes on. Also, how it works gets tweaked as more writers use it.
    True, Stephen does get better with time and usage.

    Also, like anyone who does astral projection or a mind-control where their physical body is "left helpless", there is considerable concern for it, especially in the beginning usage of that power. But as they use it more often, they either learn to "safeguard" their physical form while in use and/or see the higher importance need for going astral.
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  15. #600
    Dark Dimension Clea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    I've read Strange Tales #151-155

    ...

    Question regarding #154
    So to be clear,
    Strange left his body,
    powered it with his astral form and went in again,
    then he left his body again.

    Wasn't it in earlier issues established that once he leaves he's in ethereal form, he must quickly go back to his body because something might happen to it. Here we see his body shrugging off hits from a mindless one?


    Question regarding #155
    How does this make sense.....dammit Ancient One!
    You made not one but TWO mistakes in this issue.
    First you send Clea to her fate that is unknown and secondly you hold Stephen against his will with your spells saying he's doing it for his own good wth?!

    I just re-read ST #154 to look at Strange's use of astral projection in that story. I think the writers (Stan Lee/Marie Severin) implied that Strange performed some sort of spell on his physical form so that it would be impervious to harm while his astral self went off to rescue Clea. The text says that he turned his body 'into a shadowy shell' so that it wouldn't be affected by the Mindless Ones. I don't recall if we've ever seen Strange perform this sort of spell again to protect his body while his astral self is away. In most stories, when Strange astral projects it's clear that his physical form is vulnerable to physical interference and harm. The 'shadowy shell' transformation doesn't really work for me, but the writers needed it for their story.

    As for the Ancient One sending Clea off to some unknown dimension in ST #155, never to be seen again... Sigh. The Ancient One's logic doesn't really make sense here: Umar is so strong that her powers might reach all the way to earth, so best to just use a spell to fling Clea off into some unknown dimension somewhere else (the Nameless Nowhere as he describes it), never to be seen again. What the hell? When you eventually see where she ended up, it's not like he did her any favors. LOL. Poor Clea.


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