Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Oberon]

ok I'm gonna post some Clea stuff because I love her and she's awesome not to mention the fact that she's always been an important element of doctor strange extended universe.

Clea is an interesting parallel to Wanda if you consider that she too had these various influences by magical type beings. She lived in a world where this was just the way life was.

[Phoenixx9]

Clea is an interesting parallel to Wanda if you consider that she too had these various influences by magical type beings. She lived in a world where this was just the way life was.

And whereas Wanda had a brother with silver hair that had "wings", Clea had the silver hair with "wings".

Both Clea and Wanda trained under accomplished powerful practitioners of magic and both have interesting, unique costumes, not to mention unique hair styles.

Both ladies also would underestimated themselves often, but would win the day with their power on more than one occasion!

Both names end in "a". Both names themselves are on the rarer side.

So yeah, while totally different, there can be many similarities too between Clea and Wanda.

[Daedra]

Clea is an interesting parallel to Wanda if you consider that she too had these various influences by magical type beings. She lived in a world where this was just the way life was.

She also has a very interesting ancestry, She's half Faltine (her mother is Umar sister of Dormammu) and half dark dimension mortal, this means that unlike normal humans she's able to generate her own mystical energy just like her mother and uncle, considering her origin one would expect Clea to be evil or ruthless but in truth she is characterized by a kindness and innocence that at times is almost surprising..... don't be fooled guys she's an accomplished magic user (the top of the top) and is a fearless warrior in the making.

I loved when she discovered snow for the first time:



her bio from the marvel handbook:

[MaximoffTrash]

I hope they can somehow pull off the "magic-based civilization world building" of Dark Dimension in DS movies and other projects that may feature Dark Dimension.

[Clea]

It was not easy for Clea to rule the Dark Dimension. It had been torn by conflict even before Dormammu and Umar took it over. After eons of Dormammu's rule of terror, the residents of the Dark Dimension were used to a dictator who enforced order through fear. The temptation to tap into her own Faltine nature and use that power to force people to do obey her was always ever present. She's wise enough to know that following that path would only corrupt her as it corrupted her Faltine mother and uncle before her. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Faltine are beings of pure magical energy. Dormammu and Umar corrupted themselves when they took on physical forms in order to expand their control of the magical realms. Their desire for absolute power turned them monstrous and evil. Clea feels that same pull to tap into her Faltine nature and use it to force her will on others, but she's wise enough and compassionate enough to know that it would lead to tragedy for her and everyone else. (Marvel Comics Presents #20)

This ties into the conversation in this thread about the invisible cost and consequences of using magic, and it shows why a magic user's essential moral character matters. The temptation to use that power to force people and the world to suit your will is always there.

[Phoenixx9]

So a question: Do the Flames of Regency grant power, or do they only appear on the one who is the most powerful in the Dark Dimension? Or is it both??

[Daedra]

So a question: Do the Flames of Regency grant power, or do they only appear on the one who is the most powerful in the Dark Dimension? Or is it both??

It goes both way, it grants power and it’s a symbol of power, kinda like the ruler of limbo got to use the soulsword while magic was gone

[Phoenixx9]

It goes both way, it grants power and its a symbol of power, kinda like the ruler of limbo got to use the soulsword while magic was gone

Thank you, Daedra. That is what I thought.

[Oberon]

I love the Gene Colan era of Strange. Clea is a wonderful character. Are they avoiding her for a movie part or saving it?

[Albert1981]

Well, reading this thread has been fun. I think I have a better grip on the magic side of Marvel now. Prior to that I was only aware of the magic side of the MU only in broad strokes.



When rumors first swirled around Tilda Swinton in Dr Strange I thought she was going to play Clea.

I thought Tilda would have been a little bit too old for Benedict to be his love interest. Clea should be a bit younger in my opinion. And this thread is good at debating about magic. I know Loki and the Scarlet Witch are magic users as well in the MCU, but Strange is the leader when it comes to this field in the Marvel Universe. And since Clea is so closely tied to Stephen, I feel it's quite all right to talk about her here too!

[Albert1981]

Without rules, deus ex machina via magic becomes a tempting, lazy path that many authors can't resist so they let themselves write the story into a corner and then...MAGIC! So far the MCU has thankfully avoided this trap, but the use of "magic" in Catwoman and Wonder Woman 1984 just took me out of those movies. Science fiction, detective novels, and political thrillers have these problems too, but at least they often TRY to explain things in a way fantasy stories don't. I don't care how crazy the magic is (I actually want it to be more outrageous and out of control in Strange 2 than it was in Strange 1 and WandaVision), just please PLEASE don't use it to get out of bad writing, okay? I dunno, maybe I'm asking for too much here!

Here's a quote I found online DEFENDING the use of magic systems which I almost totally agree with (and the person posting it is a HUGE fan of how Brandon Sanderson explains magic in his novels which many posters here have read and I haven't):

"Just like in real life, explaining things by saying "well, it's magic, it doesn't need to make sense!" is utterly unsatisfying. Same for "mysterious gods" and all sorts of other plot/explanation copouts.

Thought-out systems of magic make the story so much more satisfying.

That's why I can't really deal with the intuitive crap of Wheel of Time or Sword of Truth, where the "intuitive" and plot-powerful magic makes the fights boring ("and then, the heroes won using long-lost intuitive powers!" sums up a lot of the fights), compared to stuff like Brandon Sanderson's incredibly thought out and plot-integral magic systems in Mistborn or Way of Kings that make every fight and use of magic more intriguing.

Every time the rules are seemingly broken, it's not just to make the hero suddenly more epic, it actually makes sense once you've learned more.

Of course, yeah, some authors might be pretty sucky at story if they're only interested in the magic system, but I prefer more "systematic" magic and sci-fi with in-universe limits compared to "intuitive" fantasy or sci-fantasy. It helps really emphasize how smart and capable the heroes are, as opposed to plot-tied random magic that seems utterly unrelated to the competence or identity of the heroes.

This can apply more generally to any fighting technology or ability. More technical or at least thought-out explanations of dog-fighting airplanes or spaceships, sword fighting, gun-fighting, etc beat out the "I-win-because-the-plot-seems-served-by-it-but-most-of-my-current-competence-will-evaporate-right-after" crap of lamer action or adventure stories in any medium."

[Albert1981]

Oh by the way Strange fans, thank you so much for letting me turn this thread into a debate about MAGIC and not JUST Stephen. A lot of my comments are complaints and criticisms about stuff and I know I can definitely sound like an asshole and/or party pooper on other threads. And trust me, I don't want to be a source of negativity or anything. But it's great we can discuss magic systems here without anybody getting offended, which is the LAST thing I want to do. However, I still have yet to be convinced that there shouldn't be boundaries and restraints on the use of magic.

[Phoenixx9]

Oh by the way Strange fans, thank you so much for letting me turn this thread into a debate about MAGIC and not JUST Stephen. A lot of my comments are complaints and criticisms about stuff and I know I can definitely sound like an asshole and/or party pooper on other threads. And trust me, I don't want to be a source of negativity or anything. But it's great we can discuss magic systems here without anybody getting offended, which is the LAST thing I want to do. However, I still have yet to be convinced that there shouldn't be boundaries and restraints on the use of magic.

I guess that is where Free Will would come into play.

If someone was willing to bet/wager/lose their soul to do something, their powers/belief/magic would allow it. They would later pay the price of the consequence.

[Albert1981]

I guess that is where Free Will would come into play.

If someone was willing to bet/wager/lose their soul to do something, their powers/belief/magic would allow it. They would later pay the price of the consequence.

Sounds like a good system to me. Makes sense. I will say this. I think magic has to have limits or it will utterly ruin stories. And I think this is something that famous fantasy authors such as Le Guin and Tolkien understood.

[Daedra]

Without rules, deus ex machina via magic becomes a tempting, lazy path that many authors can't resist so they let themselves write the story into a corner and then...MAGIC! So far the MCU has thankfully avoided this trap, but the use of "magic" in Catwoman and Wonder Woman 1984 just took me out of those movies. Science fiction, detective novels, and political thrillers have these problems too, but at least they often TRY to explain things in a way fantasy stories don't. I don't care how crazy the magic is (I actually want it to be more outrageous and out of control in Strange 2 than it was in Strange 1 and WandaVision), just please PLEASE don't use it to get out of bad writing, okay? I dunno, maybe I'm asking for too much here!

Here's a quote I found online DEFENDING the use of magic systems which I almost totally agree with (and the person posting it is a HUGE fan of how Brandon Sanderson explains magic in his novels which many posters here have read and I haven't):

"Just like in real life, explaining things by saying "well, it's magic, it doesn't need to make sense!" is utterly unsatisfying. Same for "mysterious gods" and all sorts of other plot/explanation copouts.

Thought-out systems of magic make the story so much more satisfying.

That's why I can't really deal with the intuitive crap of Wheel of Time or Sword of Truth, where the "intuitive" and plot-powerful magic makes the fights boring ("and then, the heroes won using long-lost intuitive powers!" sums up a lot of the fights), compared to stuff like Brandon Sanderson's incredibly thought out and plot-integral magic systems in Mistborn or Way of Kings that make every fight and use of magic more intriguing.

Every time the rules are seemingly broken, it's not just to make the hero suddenly more epic, it actually makes sense once you've learned more.

Of course, yeah, some authors might be pretty sucky at story if they're only interested in the magic system, but I prefer more "systematic" magic and sci-fi with in-universe limits compared to "intuitive" fantasy or sci-fantasy. It helps really emphasize how smart and capable the heroes are, as opposed to plot-tied random magic that seems utterly unrelated to the competence or identity of the heroes.

This can apply more generally to any fighting technology or ability. More technical or at least thought-out explanations of dog-fighting airplanes or spaceships, sword fighting, gun-fighting, etc beat out the "I-win-because-the-plot-seems-served-by-it-but-most-of-my-current-competence-will-evaporate-right-after" crap of lamer action or adventure stories in any medium."

there is nothing to worry, anyone is entitled to his own opinion and sharing ideas is the purpose of these boards.

Sounds like a good system to me. Makes sense. I will say this. I think magic has to have limits or it will utterly ruin stories. And I think this is something that famous fantasy authors such as Le Guin and Tolkien understood.

Magic needs to have the same limits science has in the marvel universe and that limit is KNOWLEDGE, If it is good enough for science it is also good enough for magic, Tony Stark and Reed Richards science is no different than Stephen Strange magic in the way it is used and impacts stories.