Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Clea]

Lol that’s Alligator thing was exactly what I was referring to. It just came off as odd given we’ve seen Strange eat way worse in Aaron’s run and Carol spent a whole year in space I doubt all she had in her ship was earth food. So the idea of them being that picky about what they ate just came off odd to me. The characterization definitely came off like they were being written younger which honestly I could of ignored if she de-aged them while swapping their bodies. I’d imagine someone like Carol who can fly alien space ships and was an ambassador for the US in intergalactic affairs would be able to come to grips with simple spells under Dr. Strange’s is guidance and vice versa with Stephen being someone who was a surgeon with a vast knowledge of mystic arts. If Thompson had them de-aged I think it would of came off a hell of a lot more believable given how she wrote them. It was a fun story nonetheless just my nitpicks at it.

I’ll have to check out the Sorceror Supreme issue appreciate the name drop.

I didn't mind the humor in the Ms. Marvel story. It was obviously being written in the non-stop snarky, quippy style of most of the MCU movies.

[Albert1981]

I'm just curious, have any of you guys read the Silmarillion? It's definitely influenced my views on fantasy and how magic should be portrayed in fiction. There are some magical characters in the MCU that I wish were closer to those featured in that book. In particular, I'm talking about characters like Clea!

[DigiCom]

I'm just curious, have any of you guys read the Silmarillion? It's definitely influenced my views on fantasy and how magic should be portrayed in fiction. There are some magical characters in the MCU that I wish were closer to those featured in that book. In particularly, I'm talking about characters like Clea!

I have. And I think I know what you mean... the way the Elves & Maiar are written could inform more unearthly characters like Clea or Umar.

The problem is, Dr. Strange comics are _rarely_ fantasy. We're lucky if they qualify as horror. They are superhero tales with a thin veneer of otherworldly aesthetics.

Really, while a more Tolkien-esque fantasy (or something more corrupt, a la Melnibone or Gormehghast) might be interesting for an arc, it may make more sense to lean harder into an urban fantasy feel. Jim Butcher and Ben Aaronovitch have a lot of fans...

[Albert1981]

I have. And I think I know what you mean... the way the Elves & Maiar are written could inform more unearthly characters like Clea or Umar.

The problem is, Dr. Strange comics are _rarely_ fantasy. We're lucky if they qualify as horror. They are superhero tales with a thin veneer of otherworldly aesthetics.

Really, while a more Tolkien-esque fantasy (or something more corrupt, a la Melnibone or Gormehghast) might be interesting for an arc, it may make more sense to lean harder into an urban fantasy feel. Jim Butcher and Ben Aaronovitch have a lot of fans...

Oh that's cool. I always loved the Silmarillion more than the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. It's a lot less funny than those two books, and the heroes lose a LOT in it, but I always loved how Tolkien did his world-building in that book. And there were definitely "rules" in how magic was used in the Silmarillion even though they weren't explicitly described through exposition or anything. Which I really liked because you wanna keep the awe and wonder of magic in fiction. I would love to see Strange in a fantasy setting. And I think Clea and Umar could thrive in it. But thing is, in Tolkien's world, most women were not villainous. Isn't Umar kind of evil? I've never read about urban fantasy. I like fantasy stories set in environments full of castles, forests, caves, mountains and deserts. And medieval cities.

[DigiCom]

Umar is VERY evil.

Tolkien doesn't exactly have the best track record with female characters, tho. Most of them are basically set dressing to be loved by the good guys or victimized by the bad. The strongest female character in the books (outside of Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, the toughest lady in the Shire) is Eowyn, and after HER badass moment, she decides to set down her sword and become a healer, after falling in love with a guy she only knew for a short time.

I don't think we want that for Clea.

[Albert1981]

Umar is VERY evil.

Tolkien doesn't exactly have the best track record with female characters, tho. Most of them are basically set dressing to be loved by the good guys or victimized by the bad. The strongest female character in the books (outside of Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, the toughest lady in the Shire) is Eowyn, and after HER badass moment, she decides to set down her sword and become a healer, after falling in love with a guy she only knew for a short time.

I don't think we want that for Clea.

Yeah, I remember her being that way. I think Tolkien did better with the Elvish female characters than the human ones. I not only thought they were brave, powerful and compassionate. They were really wise. Much more so than their male partners. I especially liked the ones who had close ties to nature such as Melian and Luthien. Although Galadriel reminded me a lot of Melian. There was some criticism that those "broads" were portrayed as being too beautiful, but because of their mystical natures I was okay with that. I think Clea could easily be like that. I don't know if she shares any similarities with those Elf women though.

[Albert1981]

2-hour movies are going to feel way, way too short after being blessed with these 5ish hour (total) series. I know the budgets and approaches are different, but I am LOVING how much content there is here. I think I might feel that way about the Multiverse of Madness. And I kinda don't want that. But Strange and his magic is WAY too expensive now for television shows, I think. So I believe he will mostly stay in the films.

[Clea]

2-hour movies are going to feel way, way too short after being blessed with these 5ish hour (total) series. I know the budgets and approaches are different, but I am LOVING how much content there is here. I think I might feel that way about the Multiverse of Madness. And I kinda don't want that. But Strange and his magic is WAY too expensive now for television shows, I think. So I believe he will mostly stay in the films.

I agree. The cost to produce the special effects to properly show magic and alternate dimensions and beings is just too high to ever showcase Doctor Strange as a recurring tv character, unless they really just reduce magic to being nothing more than hand wavy laser bolt battles like they did when they wrapped up WandaVision.

[Albert1981]

I agree. The cost to produce the special effects to properly show magic and alternate dimensions and beings is just too high to ever showcase Doctor Strange as a recurring tv character, unless they really just reduce magic to being nothing more than hand wavy laser bolt battles like they did when they wrapped up WandaVision.

Since Stephen is gearing up to be a HUGE part of the MCU in the near future, I'm somewhat okay with this. I mean, if he gets a trilogy of movies, that's sort of like one season of a Disney Plus series right? I wouldn't mind seeing Strange once a week for a couple of months though! I really REALLY like your idea of Doctor Strange having magical adventures AWAY from Earth. Thor automatically got WAY more interesting to me after he left Earth in Ragnarok. He and the Hulk were allowed to do things that just wouldn't have worked on this planet. Even if it's in a medieval fantasy world. I don't see Strange as a "fantasy" character, but I think that concept could work. And Clea could be like a Galadriel-like character. Wise, brave and noble (she would be ancient but look really young). Don't know if that would reflect her comic book personality. I was really surprised that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier referred to Doctor Strange. It's a really grounded series, and magic is still somehow involved! I ALWAYS wondered what was the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer. And now I know. Strange is basically a younger Gandalf without a hat!

[MadFacedKid]

Honestly I think a Dr. Strange show could work definitely be more occult/horror type in some episodes which would be fun and stuff would be dragged out like his origin story. I honestly think outside the inception type effects and Dormammu and the dark dimension his movie for the most part looked pretty grounded in terms of action and what the character could do. That why I loved the power difference in Infinity War.

there’s a lot of videos mimicking the power display in the solo movie

But given it’s a tv series you could always have focus on the fact he’s struggling to learn these spells and incantations and then a lot of it won’t even just being showing off these powers he has. It would probably focus on his personal life to stay in budget. I could see every season having some big CGI villain and characters like Dormammu and Nightmare don’t even have to really be CGI’d they could be people in a suit unlike let’s say Shuma Gorath.

[Clea]

Since Stephen is gearing up to be a HUGE part of the MCU in the near future, I'm somewhat okay with this. I mean, if he gets a trilogy of movies, that's sort of like one season of a Disney Plus series right? I wouldn't mind seeing Strange once a week for a couple of months though! I really REALLY like your idea of Doctor Strange having magical adventures AWAY from Earth. Thor automatically got WAY more interesting to me after he left Earth in Ragnarok. He and the Hulk were allowed to do things that just wouldn't have worked on this planet. Even if it's in a medieval fantasy world. I don't see Strange as a "fantasy" character, but I think that concept could work. And Clea could be like a Galadriel-like character. Wise, brave and noble (she would be ancient but look really young). Don't know if that would reflect her comic book personality. I was really surprised that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier referred to Doctor Strange. It's a really grounded series, and magic is still somehow involved! I ALWAYS wondered what was the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer. And now I know. Strange is basically a younger Gandalf without a hat!

There are stretches of the Dark Dimension that look more like a traditional fantasy story setting, but Strange is a modern era character who acts as the protector of the modern world, so I don't see Marvel ever having him spend too much time in a purely fantasy world setting.

I didn't realize that they were making references to Strange in the Falcon and Winter Soldier series. Are there magic users in that series? I thought it was a non-magical, real world/Marvel-science based story. If all they did was mention Strange by name, that's really just a way for Marvel to drop in little reminders here and there that all of the current movie/tv releases are all linked together.

[Albert1981]

There are stretches of the Dark Dimension that look more like a traditional fantasy story setting, but Strange is a modern era character who acts as the protector of the modern world, so I don't see Marvel ever having him spend too much time in a purely fantasy world setting.

I didn't realize that they were making references to Strange in the Falcon and Winter Soldier series. Are there magic users in that series? I thought it was a non-magical, real world/Marvel-science based story. If all they did was mention Strange by name, that's really just a way for Marvel to drop in little reminders here and there that all of the current movie/tv releases are all linked together.

I think it was PURELY a reference to remind folks that the Multiverse of Madness is coming out next year. But even to MENTION magic in such a grounded and somewhat political/military type series goes to show how much Disney cares about the magical component of the MCU. I also thought it was a way to re-introduce the snarky quippiness that the MCU is well-known for (you are well-aware of the fact that I am an unabashed fan of Marvel humor and consider it to be a HUGE part of the success of the MCU). I thought the Hobbit joke was hilarious. I totally laughed out loud at that one (but the author of this article is growing weary of the banter in Marvel movies these days):

https://www.theringer.com/2021/3/31/...winter-soldier

Here is the dialogue in question:

You don't have to trust Redwing, but I'mma go see if he's right.

'Cause I have a feeling they might be a part of the Big Three.

What "Big Three"?

The Big Three.

What Big Three?

Androids, aliens, and wizards.

That's not a thing.

That's definitely a thing.

No, it's not.

Every time we fight, we fight one of the three.

So, who are you fighting now, Gandalf?

How do you know about Gandalf?

I read The Hobbit in 1937 when it first came out.

So you see my point?

No, I don't. There are no wizards.

Doctor Strange.

Is a sorcerer.

Aah! ( Chuckles )

A sorcerer is a wizard without a hat.

Think about it. Right?

I'm right. I just came up with that. It's crazy.

But that's not the point. These guys aren't magical. All right?

They use brute force just like you, the incredibly annoying guy in front of me with the staring problem.

[Albert1981]

I guess Strange never travelled much to the past for his adventures. I would have liked to see him get knee-deep into some Sword in the Stone type escapades. But you're right, his personality is definitely rooted in the modern world. But I'm pretty sure skirt-chasing was popular centuries ago too.

[Albert1981]

Honestly I think a Dr. Strange show could work definitely be more occult/horror type in some episodes which would be fun and stuff would be dragged out like his origin story. I honestly think outside the inception type effects and Dormammu and the dark dimension his movie for the most part looked pretty grounded in terms of action and what the character could do. That why I loved the power difference in Infinity War.

there’s a lot of videos mimicking the power display in the solo movie

But given it’s a tv series you could always have focus on the fact he’s struggling to learn these spells and incantations and then a lot of it won’t even just being showing off these powers he has. It would probably focus on his personal life to stay in budget. I could see every season having some big CGI villain and characters like Dormammu and Nightmare don’t even have to really be CGI’d they could be people in a suit unlike let’s say Shuma Gorath.

Yeah, you're right. Personal life stories just seem to THRIVE on the small screen in a way they can't in the movies. But has Strange ever had a "Vision" and/or "Demon in a Bottle" type story in his comic book past? Like strictly domestic and/or battling his own personal demons kind of things? If that's the case, I think Cumberbatch is MORE than capable of doing something like that for television. Doctor Strange was surprisingly grounded for such a trippy film. I wish his origin story could have been expanded on more in his debut, however. I would have absolutely cut out the romance in that film and focused more on that. I really liked Doctor Strange's first film, but even I acknowledge that in some ways it's Iron Man with magic.

And although most people probably don't pay much attention to this, I really REALLY appreciate the intricate way Strange and Wanda MOVE their hands to use magic. I have even read that Disney hired choreographers to help Cumberbatch and Olsen with their hand movements, and it just makes magic users look SO cool when they perform magical acts.

[Albert1981]

There were some parts of the first Strange movie that I really was indifferent towards. I thought it was somewhat formulaic and I felt like I was watching Iron Man (this time with magic) again. So the origin story was pretty familiar to me compared to the other ones in the MCU. I wasn't a HUGE fan of WandaVision's finale, even though there were some GREAT moments in it. One of those had much in common with the finale of Doctor Strange's first film. And that's how they dealt with the final villains of their respective stories. I thought the Ship of Theseus was one of the best conflict resolutions I’ve EVER seen in a TV show. Having the Vision vs Vision fight actually resolved with logic as opposed to who can punch harder, and Wanda winning via the use of magic she learned earlier in the show was GREAT. WandaVision and the first Strange movie are basically the ONLY two MCU properties where the villains aren't defeated by "hurting them to death". So I appreciated the creativity and originality of the writers there. I mentioned these EXACT words on a Wanda-related thread earlier and got ZERO response there, so I imagine HOW these "final boss battles" were concluded meant very LITTLE to the posters on that thread. But I thought that they were great. And I wanna see more of that stuff in the future from the MCU, especially in the Multiverse of Madness.