Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[DigiCom]

I'm not too entirely sure what energy blasts are myself. I just read comments online describing how witches and sorcerers use "energy blasts" to fight their opponents. Like what's the difference between Agatha's "energy blasts" and Vision's "energy blasts"? I mean their COLORS are different, but they're still "lasers" to me.

Well, there are the Bolts of Balthakk



Those look vaguely blasty.

Or the Light of Nirvalon?



There are others...

[Albert1981]

Well, there are the Bolts of Balthakk



Those look vaguely blasty.

Or the Light of Nirvalon?



There are others...

Oh yeah, those are laser blasts. No doubt about it. Thanks for the reference!

[Albert1981]

Agatha would bundle magical energy that she's learned how to control. Same for other magic users. It would be the same sort of energy that they draw on to perform spells, teleportation, etc. It could be energy drawn from the magic user themself, nature/earth magic, deity magic, energy drawn from the major magical beings and powers, energy from other dimensions, etc. It would all depend on the knowledge, skill, and experience of the magic user. They'd all have different sources and levels of energy that they could wield.

The lasers and photon blasts and whatever it is that the non-magical users wield are supposedly science based, even if it's just some sort of made up Marvel 'science.' On the page or on the screen though, it's hard to distinguish between a science based energy blast and a magic-based blast. Just go with it. If it's Strange, you know it's a magic energy blast. If it's the Falcon, it's science-based. If it's Dr. Doom... well then you need more context because he's an adept sorcerer and a genius scientist so he can pick and choose what he wants to do.

Thank you so much for the explanation. I had thought for the longest time that magic was something you were BORN with. Not something you got from somewhere ELSE. In WandaVision, I thought it was pretty unoriginal that the two Visions engaged in a beam-o-war in the skies with the usual lasers hammering each other in the middle like an "energy arm wrestle". But at least the Visions had an excuse. Laser beams are a HUGE part of their fighting arsenals. And thankfully, the Vision fight didn't last long and was resolved peacefully with a philosophical argument. But I was expecting Wanda and Agatha to do more than just fling bolts at each other for for such a long duration during THEIR battle. Even Monica, Vision and the twins watched the two ladies duke it out like it was a Fourth of July event! I mean how cool it would have been with Wanda being put under some real pressure if Agatha could do creative stuff like transforming a car into a creature to attack Wanda, forming a stone prison that is shrinking trying to crush Wanda, and converting the energy thrown by Wanda into fire to send back at her etc. But unfortunately we just got the same old blasting energy at each other fight that we see in practically EVERY magical movie/show. Especially after watching the Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight, I kinda expected more from a fight between two witches and not just them throwing energy balls at each other. But to be fair I only expected some flashy stuff from Agatha since she is hundreds of years old and vastly more knowledgeable about magic and Wanda is a rookie, so her doing energy blasts is fine. It was only then that I discovered here on these CBR threads that Wanda and Agatha CAN'T do the crazy **** Strange, Wong and Kaecilius did.

On another note, one other reason I liked the first Strange movie is because it featured a very exotic and somewhat obscure country that is never shown in Hollywood films: Nepal. I thought it was such a great move for Disney to shoot some of that movie there, even if it only was because Marvel Studios wanted to avoid censorship from China.

[Albert1981]

Oh and by the way, Clea, I really hope you don't HATE science fiction stories. I get the resentment that some fantasy fans have towards sci-fi, but I can't imagine you would disregard the wonderful stories that can be created on the basis of science. Even pseudoscience. You mentioned the Butterfly Effect in one of your earlier posts. I learned about it myself from Ray Bradbury's beautiful short story, A Sound of Thunder (which is one of author Stephen King's favorites). "Bradbury's concept of how the death of a butterfly in the past could have drastic changes in the future is a representation of the butterfly effect, and used as an example of how to consider chaos theory and the physics of time travel." Bradbury and King could write BOTH fantasy and science fiction novels with equal skill. I also love Ernest Hemingway, who did not write in either the fantasy and science fiction genres, but who will be featured in a PBS documentary this coming Monday.

[Clea]

Oh and by the way, Clea, I really hope you don't HATE science fiction stories. I get the resentment that some fantasy fans have towards sci-fi, but I can't imagine you would disregard the wonderful stories that can be created on the basis of science. Even pseudoscience. You mentioned the Butterfly Effect in one of your earlier posts. I learned about it myself from Ray Bradbury's beautiful short story, A Sound of Thunder (which is one of author Stephen King's favorites). "Bradbury's concept of how the death of a butterfly in the past could have drastic changes in the future is a representation of the butterfly effect, and used as an example of how to consider chaos theory and the physics of time travel." Bradbury and King could write BOTH fantasy and science fiction novels with equal skill. I also love Ernest Hemingway, who did not write in either the fantasy and science fiction genres, but who will be featured in a PBS documentary this coming Monday.

On the contrary. I love science fiction and have been reading it avidly since I was a child, along with fantasy, mythology, horror, and historical fiction, as well as straightforward history, philosophy, etc. I've read countless science fiction, fantasy, speculative fiction, and horror stories. I am an ardent fan of good storytelling in any genre. What I love about comics is the interplay between telling the story through words but also through the art. It's similar to cinema in many aspects.

To keep this discussion on topic, here's a lovely image from Into Shamballa, one of my favorite Doctor Strange stories.

[Daedra]

Thank you so much for the explanation. I had thought for the longest time that magic was something you were BORN with. Not something you got from somewhere ELSE. In WandaVision, I thought it was pretty unoriginal that the two Visions engaged in a beam-o-war in the skies with the usual lasers hammering each other in the middle like an "energy arm wrestle". But at least the Visions had an excuse. Laser beams are a HUGE part of their fighting arsenals. And thankfully, the Vision fight didn't last long and was resolved peacefully with a philosophical argument. But I was expecting Wanda and Agatha to do more than just fling bolts at each other for for such a long duration during THEIR battle. Even Monica, Vision and the twins watched the two ladies duke it out like it was a Fourth of July event! I mean how cool it would have been with Wanda being put under some real pressure if Agatha could do creative stuff like transforming a car into a creature to attack Wanda, forming a stone prison that is shrinking trying to crush Wanda, and converting the energy thrown by Wanda into fire to send back at her etc. But unfortunately we just got the same old blasting energy at each other fight that we see in practically EVERY magical movie/show. Especially after watching the Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight, I kinda expected more from a fight between two witches and not just them throwing energy balls at each other. But to be fair I only expected some flashy stuff from Agatha since she is hundreds of years old and vastly more knowledgeable about magic and Wanda is a rookie, so her doing energy blasts is fine. It was only then that I discovered here on these CBR threads that Wanda and Agatha CAN'T do the crazy **** Strange, Wong and Kaecilius did.

On another note, one other reason I liked the first Strange movie is because it featured a very exotic and somewhat obscure country that is never shown in Hollywood films: Nepal. I thought it was such a great move for Disney to shoot some of that movie there, even if it only was because Marvel Studios wanted to avoid censorship from China.

In the marvel universe some characters are born with magic, others have great potential for it while most people can only gain so much from studies and practice

[Lee Stone]

Thank you so much for the explanation. I had thought for the longest time that magic was something you were BORN with. Not something you got from somewhere ELSE. In WandaVision, I thought it was pretty unoriginal that the two Visions engaged in a beam-o-war in the skies with the usual lasers hammering each other in the middle like an "energy arm wrestle". But at least the Visions had an excuse. Laser beams are a HUGE part of their fighting arsenals. And thankfully, the Vision fight didn't last long and was resolved peacefully with a philosophical argument. But I was expecting Wanda and Agatha to do more than just fling bolts at each other for for such a long duration during THEIR battle. Even Monica, Vision and the twins watched the two ladies duke it out like it was a Fourth of July event! I mean how cool it would have been with Wanda being put under some real pressure if Agatha could do creative stuff like transforming a car into a creature to attack Wanda, forming a stone prison that is shrinking trying to crush Wanda, and converting the energy thrown by Wanda into fire to send back at her etc. But unfortunately we just got the same old blasting energy at each other fight that we see in practically EVERY magical movie/show. Especially after watching the Thanos vs Doctor Strange fight, I kinda expected more from a fight between two witches and not just them throwing energy balls at each other. But to be fair I only expected some flashy stuff from Agatha since she is hundreds of years old and vastly more knowledgeable about magic and Wanda is a rookie, so her doing energy blasts is fine. It was only then that I discovered here on these CBR threads that Wanda and Agatha CAN'T do the crazy **** Strange, Wong and Kaecilius did.

On another note, one other reason I liked the first Strange movie is because it featured a very exotic and somewhat obscure country that is never shown in Hollywood films: Nepal. I thought it was such a great move for Disney to shoot some of that movie there, even if it only was because Marvel Studios wanted to avoid censorship from China.

My favorite parts of the fight were the clever bits, like spoilers:

her coming up behind Agatha and throwing her into an illusion of the coven, only to have Agatha take control of it and turn the illusion around in her; or when Wanda starts blasting her but missing on purpose to cast runes around the area.

end of spoilers
I also really liked the Wizard of Oz Easter egg.

[DigiCom]

I rather liked the business with the runes, even if they aren't particularly accurate to either galðr OR witchcraft.

[Clea]

I rather liked the business with the runes, even if they aren't particularly accurate to either galðr OR witchcraft.

I liked the runes, too. Doesn't matter that it was accurate to real world magical traditions. It just needed to make Marvel magic sense within the context of that story.

[Eto]

Huh, I'm a bit confused right now.
So in Waid's run Strange says magic has no price anymore yet he says (reading issue #1 right now) in Surgeon Supreme magic always demands a price and I dare not take the risk that the patient, not me, might get tapped to pay it.

aight I'm confused.

[Clea]

Huh, I'm a bit confused right now.
So in Waid's run Strange says magic has no price anymore yet he says (reading issue #1 right now) in Surgeon Supreme magic always demands a price and I dare not take the risk that the patient, not me, might get tapped to pay it.

aight I'm confused.

I guess for the purpose of this particular story, Waid wanted to use the 'magic has a price' schtick. I haven't read Surgeon Supreme so I can't say if it works in that story or not. I wish Marvel writers would let this notion drop.

[Eto]

I guess for the purpose of this particular story, Waid wanted to use the 'magic has a price' schtick. I haven't read Surgeon Supreme so I can't say if it works in that story or not. I wish Marvel writers would let this notion drop.

Agreed,
I'm on issue #2 now and there Stephen mentions: "magic comes with a cost, however."

....

[Daedra]

Agreed,
I'm on issue #2 now and there Stephen mentions: "magic comes with a cost, however."

....

I believe you are referring to this



To be fair Stephen had to use some particular spells to speed up is own recovery quite a bit (even by magic’s standards) after having his bones broken he was a good as new and ready to work on a patient

[Clea]

Thanks, Daedra! In this context, the 'cost' makes more sense.

[Clea]

I think that one of the most important insights into Stephen Strange's personality appears in Sorcerer Supreme #45. IMO, it's the key to understanding why Strange is so aloof, and why he pushes people away emotionally, even those closest to him like Clea or Wong. Strange tells himself that his duty requires him to remain alone and emotionally distant from everyone. While it's true that people near him can become targets of malign forces, Strange was fundamentally an emotionally traumatized and scarred person long before he became Sorcerer Supreme. He witnessed his younger sister's death by drowning when he was 19. He still blames himself for not saving her. Then when he was a medical intern, his mother died. Once again, Strange was not able to save someone that he loved. His mother's last words to him was for him to take care of his younger brother Victor. Instead, traumatized by loss and guilt, Strange buried himself in his work and pursued a life of empty, emotionally distant pleasures. When his brother Victor left him a voicemail begging him to come home because their father was dying, Strange couldn't face seeing another loved one die. He couldn't even bring himself to call his brother back for two days, but by then it was too late. His brother flew to New York to confront him about it and then stormed out of Strange's apartment. Victor was so furious that he wasn't watching what he was doing and he walked right into the path of a car that struck and killed him. Strange still carries all this guilt and loss locked up inside of himself. He feels like he is responsible for their deaths, so it's no wonder that he won't allow himself to ever fully open up to someone else emotionally. Combine all of this trauma and guilt with the fact that he knows that dark magical beings target him and the people around him, and it's no wonder why he treated Clea the way that he did, overly protective on the one hand, while pushing her away emotionally on the other hand. It's no wonder why he can't maintain a relationship with anyone else, either. This man has issues. I'd read once that Scott Derrickson had planned to include a flashback scene about the death of Strange's sister Donna as a way to explain why Strange turned himself into such a standoffish jerk, but the scene was cut. That's a pity, IMO. Maybe Marvel will find a way to include this backstory into the MCU version of Strange because it explains so much about him. Maybe it would help to remind the Marvel comics and film writers that Strange isn't just 'Tony Stark lite'.