Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Albert1981]

Blade is a modern version of the vampire hunters from Dracula (indeed, two of his compatriots in the Tomb of Dracula comic are actually descended from Dracula characters), and similar characters like Martin Hesselius and Carnacki. He comes from a tradition where the supernatural is fought with faith, skill, strength and occasionally science. Spell-casting is actually fairly rare, and usually of the "recite from a spellbook" type.

Wow. Flight of Bones sounds interesting. I wouldn't mind Strange becoming even MORE attached to the horror world. I consider Blade, Ghost Rider and Man-Thing to be full-on horror characters. Strange, Wanda, Magik, Wong, Voodoo, and Loki...Not so much. Thanks for letting me know how Blade uses his powers. I'm surprised he uses science to help him actually. The older Blade movies were pretty violent from what I've heard. I've only seen one of them though. I mean, I would LIKE to see Strange as a magical Sam Spade. Really cynical and tough. But I think he's too much of an intellectual to be like that. Dude's bordering on being a genius. He would never get his hands dirty. I mean, he might be a skirt-chaser NOWADAYS, but he's not a heavy like I said.

[DigiCom]

Wow. Flight of Bones sounds interesting. I wouldn't mind Strange becoming even MORE attached to the horror world. I consider Blade, Ghost Rider and Man-Thing to be full-on horror characters. Strange, Wanda, Magik, Wong, Voodoo, and Loki...Not so much. Thanks for letting me know how Blade uses his powers. I'm surprised he uses science to help him actually. The older Blade movies were pretty violent from what I've heard. I've only seen one of them though. I mean, I would LIKE to see Strange as a magical Sam Spade. Really cynical and tough. But I think he's too much of an intellectual to be like that. Dude's bordering on being a genius. He would never get his hands dirty. I mean, he might be a skirt-chaser NOWADAYS, but he's not a heavy like I said.

Brother Voodoo actually comes from the same era as Blade. He started in the horror comics as well. The Blade movies... aren't much like those comics.

And "occult detective" doesn't always mean PI. For much of their existence, they were more Sherlock Holmes than Sam Spade. Indeed, one could argue that The Hound of the Baskervilles is an occult detective story. But the best model of an occult detective is Carnacki, who I mentioned earlier. I mean, check out this bit from the Wikipedia article:

Each of Carnacki's tales tells of an investigation into an unusual haunting, which Carnacki is charged to identify and to end. He employs a variety of scientific methods in his investigations, as well as resorting to more traditional folklore. He employs technologies such as photography and his own fictional invention, the Electric Pentacle.

"Electric Pentacle". You gotta love that. And these stories were written 110 years ago.

[Albert1981]

We really don't know anything about MoM, so I won't even begin to speculate.

As for spellbooks, real adepts know the best place for used grimoires is Avalon.com.

(Actually an investment group. Don't bother. )

Yeah, you can't really speculate at this point. I just can't believe ANY leaks or spoilers anymore after WandaVision proved so many of them wrong. Doctor Strange probably would like to get into investing. I mean, I'm not even sure if he is a messy renter at the Sanctum Sanctorum or if he owns the place. If his investments are wise and he rents, maybe he can save enough money to buy the place.

As I said, I'm not thrilled with Strange "dying". It feels like a David Copperfield magic trick and I'm almost sure it won't last. From what I've seen, Banner, Stark, and Thing among others will be showing up. I REALLY hope Clea makes an appearance. It would be like Wanda "dying" and Vision not showing up to pay his respects if she doesn't go to his funeral. But apparently Marvel Comics has forgotten about her?

[Albert1981]

Brother Voodoo actually comes from the same era as Blade. He started in the horror comics as well. The Blade movies... aren't much like those comics.

And "occult detective" doesn't always mean PI. For much of their existence, they were more Sherlock Holmes than Sam Spade. Indeed, one could argue that The Hound of the Baskervilles is an occult detective story. But the best model of an occult detective is Carnacki, who I mentioned earlier. I mean, check out this bit from the Wikipedia article:

Each of Carnacki's tales tells of an investigation into an unusual haunting, which Carnacki is charged to identify and to end. He employs a variety of scientific methods in his investigations, as well as resorting to more traditional folklore. He employs technologies such as photography and his own fictional invention, the Electric Pentacle.

"Electric Pentacle". You gotta love that. And these stories were written 110 years ago.

Yeah, some of the stuff written at that time was pretty interesting. I mean, the horror genre was pretty new at that time, so the writers were really going wild then. I believe science fiction was also in its infancy during that era. I do like the intersection of crime and horror though. Carnacki sounds more like science fiction than fantasy to me. And Electric Pentacle is a very funny name. Wow, I didn't know Voodoo came from the horror comics. Thanks for the info!

[DigiCom]

Yeah, some of the stuff written at that time was pretty interesting. I mean, the horror genre was pretty new at that time, so the writers were really going wild then. I believe science fiction was also in its infancy during that era. I do like the intersection of crime and horror though. Carnacki sounds more like science fiction than fantasy to me. And Electric Pentacle is a very funny name. Wow, I didn't know Voodoo came from the horror comics. Thanks for the info!

Horror & science fiction are a lot older than that, really. There's a story I love to tell, about how science fiction & horror were both born from climate change. I'll give you the short form, because it's getting late.

In 1815, Mount Tambora, a volcano in Indonesia, underwent one of the biggest recorded eruptions in recorded history. It affected weather all over the world, so much so that 1816 was known as "The Year Without a Summer". Indeed, the weather was so bad that when a couple of English poets went on vacation in Switzerland with their friends, they ended up staying indoors at their villa, reading ghost stories and complaining about the writing. They decided to write their own, but only two of them managed to finish anything:

The first, written by a doctor who was along for the trip, was called The Vampyre, and helped popularize the genre of the aristocratic vampire.

The second was written by the young wife of one of the poets. His name was Percy Bysshe Shelley. Her name was Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley.

…and the book was called Frankenstein.

[Albert1981]

Horror & science fiction are a lot older than that, really. There's a story I love to tell, about how science fiction & horror were both born from climate change. I'll give you the short form, because it's getting late.

In 1815, Mount Tambora, a volcano in Indonesia, underwent one of the biggest recorded eruptions in recorded history. It affected weather all over the world, so much so that 1816 was known as "The Year Without a Summer". Indeed, the weather was so bad that when a couple of English poets went on vacation in Switzerland with their friends, they ended up staying indoors at their villa, reading ghost stories and complaining about the writing. They decided to write their own, but only two of them managed to finish anything:

The first, written by a doctor who was along for the trip, was called The Vampyre, and helped popularize the genre of the aristocratic vampire.

The second was written by the young wife of one of the poets. His name was Percy Bysshe Shelley. Her name was Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley.

…and the book was called Frankenstein.

Fascinating. Can't believe that this stuff happened. Thanks for sharing. Good night!

[Clea]

I've been away for a while.
I've finally had the time to read some more Dr. Strange ('74 series) issues.

#41
Is this the first time Stephen meets Mistress Death?
Wait what so did Stephen die and then Death sends him back to Earth?
Why would Death do that? Yeah she claims she can be patient, but still eeh didn't convince me.


#42
"The dragon is a creation of pure energy"
two words:
hory shiiiiiiet.
BUT also, how lol.


#43
Finally we know who kidnapped Wong and where Clea's been up to as well.


#45
Can someone give me more insight into this "pentagon" they formed. Like do al users have to be sorcerers or is one sorcerer enough?

About issue #41: Strange had already met and conquered his fear of Death back in issue #4. What you call 'Mistress Death' here is just Death wearing a different face. Strange had come very close to dying again but since he didn't actually die, Death was not able to keep him from returning back to earth. It wasn't so much that Death sent him back, it's more that Death couldn't stop him. I think that Death is amused by Strange.

About #45: Strange was the only one involved in this ceremony who had to be a sorcerer since he was the one who was casting the spells. I'm guessing that Claremont called it a 'pentagon formation' instead of a pentacle or pentagram so that he could avoid making a direct reference to Golden Dawn occultism or modern Wiccan practices. The 5 pointed star image (and the star within a circle) is common in many mystical practices. It often represents the 5 elements (spirit, fire, air, water, and earth). Strange made himself the 'apex' of the star, meaning he represented spirit.

[GenericUsername]

Wow. Flight of Bones sounds interesting. I wouldn't mind Strange becoming even MORE attached to the horror world. I consider Blade, Ghost Rider and Man-Thing to be full-on horror characters. Strange, Wanda, Magik, Wong, Voodoo, and Loki...Not so much. Thanks for letting me know how Blade uses his powers. I'm surprised he uses science to help him actually. The older Blade movies were pretty violent from what I've heard. I've only seen one of them though. I mean, I would LIKE to see Strange as a magical Sam Spade. Really cynical and tough. But I think he's too much of an intellectual to be like that. Dude's bordering on being a genius. He would never get his hands dirty. I mean, he might be a skirt-chaser NOWADAYS, but he's not a heavy like I said.

A lot of the inspiration for Strange comics come from gothic horror.

[Shadowcat]

I can’t help but feel like there’s something huge magic related coming. Between the Last Annihilation and Dormammu, the Darkhold, and the Death of Doctor Strange…are they setting up Doom as the new Sorcerer Supreme? Whoever they put in charge, I hope it’s not Aaron. I’m burned out on his mediocrity.

[Reviresco]

No doubt, learning on one's own is WAY harder than being formally taught. I don't disagree with you on that. In jazz music, Reinhart, Bruback and Ellington pretty much taught themselves and I don't think anybody would question their musical bona fides. I just think for storytelling purposes, it's just better if magic users are taught. Doing magic on one's own could be interesting, but I think it's more fulfilling if there's competition with other students while learning. Rivalries can develop. Friendships could be formed. Mistakes could be made that have consequences that affect OTHER people. And would you really be entertained if Rocky Balboa and Daniel-san LaRusso were NOT taught in their movies by wise mentors?

Who? Oh, Karate Kid. I didn't find that movie all that entertaining. Are you saying you think the most entertaining part of Rocky was Stallone being harassed by Burgess Meredith???

That's not about storytelling purposes. It's about the Harry Potter style story that you like. Rivalries, friendships, and consequential mistakes do happen outside of a school setting, and there are so many more types of magic stories than Harry Potter.

There was a time a long time ago, I would have tended to dismiss the opinions of people whose articles I read online (if they didn't work for a major publication or something). I mean, I DO respect Pauline Kael's and Roger Ebert's reviews of movies more than MOST online critics. But I've definitely softened my views over time. Just because you don't work for the New Yorker and/or the Chicago Sun-Times doesn't disqualify folks from giving really interesting and insightful opinions on blogs and videos. I appreciated how that writer took the time and made the effort to share her thoughts on magic and writing in general. And I felt I learned something from her. Definitely influenced my thinking on fantasy fiction a bit. I do agree that it IS difficult to make consistent rules for magic in comic books, but I applaud Marvel and DC for trying. I definitely don't think they should give up. I see no problem at all from taking successful ideas from other fantasy mediums IF it's possible to apply them to the comics. And to be honest, I was talking mostly about the movies and shows, not the comics.

I don't see Marvel seriously trying for magical consistency in the comics, i.e. the Reptil link you posted. I think the movies could be worse, because it is even a more collaborative medium and there isn't even an overall editor. Though the MCU aren't spending alot of time on world building and 'rules of magic,' so there's less to keep consistent. Sure, some non-professionals can offer insightful opinions - I've found some on the forums - but it should be directly pertinent.

I see where you're coming from, but in MY opinion, I think it's still lame that she just mentions almost off-handedly that she learned magic on her own without any foreshadowing (again in MY view). Episode three was pretty rushed in my opinion, so that might color my views on what happened. If Sylvie was a dude, I wouldn't feel any different. Yeah, Stephen went to Nepal/Tibet to find the Ancient One, but he acted like magic was bullshit for much of their earlier interactions.


I would never give Loki a pass if he learned magic on his own. I wouldn't like it either. But in my defense, I just got confused between THIS show's Loki and the Loki who died in Infinity War. This time travel/alternate reality stuff mystifies the fuck out of me. You're talking to a dude who read more Hardy Boys books than comics as a kid, so these wacky concepts just feel weird to me. I get that Loki is learning to love himself and I agree with you about the narcissism stuff, but shit, this romance feels REALLY rushed from where I stand. I LIKE Hiddleston and Di Martino, but I do miss Mobius's and Loki's interactions a lot. The Loki romance is sort of displacing the Mobius/Loki bromance and I think that's a shame.

There is no "if." There is also no "learning." Hiddleston Loki admitted that he didn't know how to cast Enchantment magic, i.e. he has no training, no studying, no practice, yet immediately did Enchantment magic against Alioth.

I don't understand the confusion, as it has nothing to do with the versions of Loki, but what Hiddleston Loki said and did in Wednesday's episode. Regardless, you've made it quite clear that you think Sylvie Loki is the lame one.

[Reviresco]

According to Wikipedia:

Hilton is said to have been inspired to write Lost Horizon, and to invent "Shangri-La" by reading the National Geographic Magazine articles of Joseph Rock, an Austrian-American botanist and ethnologist exploring the southwestern Chinese provinces and Tibetan borderlands. Still living in Britain at the time, Hilton was perhaps influenced by the Tibetan travel articles of early travelers in Tibet whose writings were found in the British Library.

Hilto wrote a LOT of books & short stories. Lost Horizon is simply one of the two best-known (the other being Goodbye, Mr. Chips)

Interesting. I haven't looked into the exact dates, but there seems to be alot of the 'mystic orient' trope going on even before Lost Horizon. I found this book, Magic in Mystery in Tibet by Madame Alexandra David-Neal that was published in the 1920s that sounds like it could have inspired a few stories.

Magic and Mystery in Tibet tells the story of her experiences in Tibet, among lamas and magicians. It is neither a travel book nor an autobiography but a study of psychic discovery, a description of the occult and mystical theories and psychic training practices of Tibet.

https://www.weirdprovidence.org/stor..._in_Tibet.html

[Reviresco]

I read the stuff about Benjamin Franklin and the thing with Doom looking for his mother's soul. I didn't find those stories scary.

Doom and Strange are literally going to Hell to face the Devil and it's drawn by Mike Mignola. No, it's not serial killer scary, but Triumph and Torment is atmospheric and operatic and sits firmly in the supernatural and horror genre.

I found the Monkey's Paw to be creepy as hell though. Deus-y stories I can sort of live with, if the "good guys" had got their asses kicked, overcame difficulties using their intelligence and determination, and if the stories have a somewhat ambiguous ending. I mean Platoon and the Lord of the Flies were kind of deus-y at the end, but they didn't feel TOO cheap to me, you know?

Lord of the Flies wasn't a boy's adventure story where the point was getting rescued, so no, I don't think that was a deus ex machina ending. Golding clearly set up that rescue by fire, just not the controlled signal fire the 'civilized' contingent planned on, and meant to contrast the adults and children's conflicts.

I'm not a fan of Strange dying because the whole premise of the story sound gimmicky to me. But I wanna learn more about Strange, so I'm gonna have to do some "research" by reading this new book. Yeah, the Reptil stuff does prove your point about how difficult it is to have consistent rules in magic. But by not having them to a certain extent, it does hurt the magical/mystical corner of the Marvel Universe I think. Yeah, the MCU is too family-friendly to have blood-drenched horror stories, but since Marvel keeps saying this is its first horror flick, then I imagine it will be a little bit scary? I gotta ask, do you think Blade is more of a supernatural or street-level character? I feel he's more of the latter.

I don't think horror necessarily has to be scary. Also, New Mutants, while not part of the MCU, had elements of a horror film. I could see Multiverse of Madness being creepy and supernatural.

He literally hunts vampires for a living. Nothing else. He may be street-level in power, but he's definitely a supernatural character.

Yes, I agree 200%.

I understand that. I was just wondering which way you felt he leaned more to. Blade knows how to use weapons like Hawkeye, but I don't remember him casting too many spells.

I think you are limiting your definition of horror and supernatural.

Blade is a modern version of the vampire hunters from Dracula (indeed, two of his compatriots in the Tomb of Dracula comic are actually descended from Dracula characters), and similar characters like Martin Hesselius and Carnacki. He comes from a tradition where the supernatural is fought with faith, skill, strength and occasionally science. Spell-casting is actually fairly rare, and usually of the "recite from a spellbook" type.

Makes me want to re-read Tomb of Dracula!

Wow. Flight of Bones sounds interesting. I wouldn't mind Strange becoming even MORE attached to the horror world. I consider Blade, Ghost Rider and Man-Thing to be full-on horror characters. Strange, Wanda, Magik, Wong, Voodoo, and Loki...Not so much. Thanks for letting me know how Blade uses his powers. I'm surprised he uses science to help him actually. The older Blade movies were pretty violent from what I've heard. I've only seen one of them though. I mean, I would LIKE to see Strange as a magical Sam Spade. Really cynical and tough. But I think he's too much of an intellectual to be like that. Dude's bordering on being a genius. He would never get his hands dirty. I mean, he might be a skirt-chaser NOWADAYS, but he's not a heavy like I said.

When Magik is little girl she is literally kidnapped and abused by a hell lord in a hell dimension for almost a decade. It's a horrifying storyline. She's the ruler of that hell dimension and commands demons and has her own demonic side. She may be used in a lot of superhero storylines, but at her core, she's a horror character.

Strange and Wong and Voodoo definitely fall into the supernatural and horror world. Wanda and Loki can certainly do those sort of stories. I would argue that Marvel's horror books don't do that well nowadays, because they keep trying to make superheroes out those characters.

Brother Voodoo actually comes from the same era as Blade. He started in the horror comics as well. The Blade movies... aren't much like those comics.

But as usual, the comics started to take on aspects of the movie.

[Reviresco]

Horror & science fiction are a lot older than that, really. There's a story I love to tell, about how science fiction & horror were both born from climate change. I'll give you the short form, because it's getting late.

In 1815, Mount Tambora, a volcano in Indonesia, underwent one of the biggest recorded eruptions in recorded history. It affected weather all over the world, so much so that 1816 was known as "The Year Without a Summer". Indeed, the weather was so bad that when a couple of English poets went on vacation in Switzerland with their friends, they ended up staying indoors at their villa, reading ghost stories and complaining about the writing. They decided to write their own, but only two of them managed to finish anything:

The first, written by a doctor who was along for the trip, was called The Vampyre, and helped popularize the genre of the aristocratic vampire.

The second was written by the young wife of one of the poets. His name was Percy Bysshe Shelley. Her name was Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley.

…and the book was called Frankenstein.

Which was captured, and fictionalized in Ken Russell's trippy movie Gothic. Not for everyone, but I enjoyed it.

[Reviresco]

A lot of the inspiration for Strange comics come from gothic horror.

And Lovecraftian horror.

[Reviresco]

I can’t help but feel like there’s something huge magic related coming. Between the Last Annihilation and Dormammu, the Darkhold, and the Death of Doctor Strange…are they setting up Doom as the new Sorcerer Supreme? Whoever they put in charge, I hope it’s not Aaron. I’m burned out on his mediocrity.

I wouldn't be surprised. There's a lot of DOOM appearances lately. I don't think Aaron would want to return to Doctor Strange ... or Doom. At least I hope not.

I do have a hard time believing they aren't going to have a Doctor Strange book out when his movie comes out. I can't believe we have to wait that long, though.