Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[your_name_here]

That What If? was great…and exactly what writers and the comics get wrong.

In my opinion, I don’t want to him stripped of his title, or losing his powers, or having a “cost” - this is guy is the SORCEROR SUPREME. Let’s see him be powerful. That essentially, we are lucky he is good because he could destroy the universe if given the time.

[GenericUsername]

And let him be flawed without losing his title. I don't know why there is this perception that the SS has to be perfect. Stephen was allowed to make mistakes in the past and still stay the SS.

[The Invincible Beawulf]

From today's Defenders #2: Strange is such a charmer

[Frontier]

This reminds me. Is Clea not going to care about Stephen's death because she doesn't remember him?

[Clea]

This reminds me. Is Clea not going to care about Stephen's death because she doesn't remember him?

I guess that would depend on whether or not the writers remember that Clea and Stephen's souls are bonded through their wedding rings, and that as a result they can sense each other even across dimensions. I don't think that Strange's memory wipe could affect a soul bond, but that's for the writers to determine. I believe the last time the rings were mentioned was back in the 2016 Doctor Strange annual. Alternatively, if they chose to, the writers could say that Strange's spell ended with his death and thus her memories were restored. Doubt it, though. Marvel has been trying to get rid of Clea for so many years that I will be surprised (pleasantly) if they did have her show up to acknowledge his loss in the Death of Doctor Strange series.

[GenericUsername]

I don't get why they keep trying to erase her.

[Frontier]

I don't get why they keep trying to erase her.

I'm still surprised they haven't confirmed if she's in the sequel movie or not.

Why does there seem to be such an aversion to Clea? It makes no sense to me.

[DigiCom]

I don't get why they keep trying to erase her.

Because ever since Fraction's Defenders, Marvel has run with the idea that Strange is a bit of a horndog.

[Clea]

I don't get why they keep trying to erase her.

Lots of reasons, some good, some bad. In general, Marvel doesn't like married characters. Single characters are more of a blank template so writers can do whatever they want with the character without having to keep track of, or involve, a spouse in the storyline. I think that the Marvel PTB assume that their readers skew young and single, and they think that audience wants to see attractive, single superheroes out having adventures and romances.

So far as Clea is concerned, she is tied so strongly to the Dark Dimension that it means that writers who use her almost invariably need to wrangle the Dark Dimension into their stories somehow. Her own backstory limits her: she is the rightful ruler and Sorceress Supreme of the Dark Dimension who is endlessly fighting to regain control from Dormammu and/or Umar. So she's either stuck there fighting or stuck there ruling because if she leaves, Dormammu instantly steps back in. Since Marvel can't have Strange tied up 100% in Dark Dimension/Dormammu stories, the relationship with Clea had to go. There's no way that Clea could carry a title entirely on her own set in the Dark Dimension. There was a stretch of time after the two were married when they agreed that they would each tend to their own dimensions and happily see each other whenever they could, but even that sort of relationship limits Strange. Single Stephen Strange can be written as a playboy (sleeping with Carol Danvers or Elektra or anyone else the writers decide to use). Married Stephen Strange wouldn't cheat on his wife (despite that bizarrely out of character moment in Fearless Defenders which was the catalyst for the last time Marvel tried to break them up as a couple).

I don't know what Marvel plans to do with Clea in the future. Maybe nothing. There was a stretch of years in which they had stories set in the Dark Dimension and/or used Dark Dimension villains in Earth-based stories and Clea wasn't mentioned at all. They may just go back to doing that again. Hard to say. I sometimes think the only way to make Clea a viable character would be to permanently exile her somehow from the Dark Dimension and force her to have to live on earth or Asgard. That would free her up to be used on other teams and not just be seen as Stephen Strange's (ex)wife. If they do bring her back though, they're going to have to address this horrid memory wipe situation. I'm sure the writer thought that having Strange wipe her memories was a big emotional moment for Strange and we were all supposed to feel sorry for him: poor Stephen sacrifices his love to save the universe. Bah. Strange robbed Clea of her own history and her own emotions. He gave her no choice in the matter. That was unforgivable, IMO. If Marvel truly wants to break up these two forever, all they need to do is give Clea her own memories back and let her realize what he did to her. I'd be hard pressed to believe that she'd ever take him back after that.

[matt levin]

Clea, that's as well summed and well reasoned as I could ask for, and, alas, I'm in agreement. I haven't read Doc in possibly decades, not liking the characterizations he's been given, and have antipathy towards this whole Death-Of concept generally, and for Doc, especially. I'll be following this thread with interest, though, as the tale unfolds. & I think "Clea-in-the-Dark-Dimension," written well, thoughtfully, and maybe as a story of struggle to regain a 'nation,' might well be good movie material based on a comic book of the same name. (A Kelly Thompson story?)

[GenericUsername]

That's all tragic. And I hate horn dog Strange. It's such a weird take.

I've really liked Clea for a lot of years. And it's terrible they want to eliminate her.

[Clea]

That's all tragic. And I hate horn dog Strange. It's such a weird take.

I've really liked Clea for a lot of years. And it's terrible they want to eliminate her.

Clea was my 'gateway' character into Marvel comics back in the 70s. I loved Strange but I always loved Clea too because she seemed like a classic fantasy novel type character, despite some awfully bad characterizations at times. I hope that Marvel does find some way to restore her memories and continue to use her in stories. We'll see. Maybe they will. Maybe she'll make a surprise appearance in the next film, and Marvel will use that as an excuse to put her back in the comics. I have no idea. If not, too bad.

As for horn dog Strange... UGH. It's like contemporary writers looked at Strange's origin story, in which, when he became Sorcerer Supreme he shed all of his ambition, callous greed, and history of using and discarding women and they said, "BORING! We like playboy, arrogant, jerk Doctor Strange! Quick! Heal his hands so he can be an arrogant surgeon again, and start writing him like magical Tony Stark! We'll say he's such a rash arrogant ass that he has no friends left, but the ladies will think he's catnip so we can hook him up with everybody! LOL!" I truly do regard post-New Avengers Doctor Strange as a different character from Classic Strange. Back in the Marvel bankruptcy/rising from the grave era when Marvel was rebooting the franchise, it would have been easy for them to toss Strange on the trash heap of comics history. Instead, they modernized him by busting him down and sticking him on the Avengers. Their gamble did pay off because Strange is a popular character now, and the movies have made him even more popular, so that's all good. He is different though. At least he got a (ghost) dog out of all of these changes, so that's a good thing. I don't think Classic Strange would ever have got himself a dog.

[Writerblog]

Lots of reasons, some good, some bad. In general, Marvel doesn't like married characters. Single characters are more of a blank template so writers can do whatever they want with the character without having to keep track of, or involve, a spouse in the storyline. I think that the Marvel PTB assume that their readers skew young and single, and they think that audience wants to see attractive, single superheroes out having adventures and romances.

So far as Clea is concerned, she is tied so strongly to the Dark Dimension that it means that writers who use her almost invariably need to wrangle the Dark Dimension into their stories somehow. Her own backstory limits her: she is the rightful ruler and Sorceress Supreme of the Dark Dimension who is endlessly fighting to regain control from Dormammu and/or Umar. So she's either stuck there fighting or stuck there ruling because if she leaves, Dormammu instantly steps back in. Since Marvel can't have Strange tied up 100% in Dark Dimension/Dormammu stories, the relationship with Clea had to go. There's no way that Clea could carry a title entirely on her own set in the Dark Dimension. There was a stretch of time after the two were married when they agreed that they would each tend to their own dimensions and happily see each other whenever they could, but even that sort of relationship limits Strange. Single Stephen Strange can be written as a playboy (sleeping with Carol Danvers or Elektra or anyone else the writers decide to use). Married Stephen Strange wouldn't cheat on his wife (despite that bizarrely out of character moment in Fearless Defenders which was the catalyst for the last time Marvel tried to break them up as a couple).

I don't know what Marvel plans to do with Clea in the future. Maybe nothing. There was a stretch of years in which they had stories set in the Dark Dimension and/or used Dark Dimension villains in Earth-based stories and Clea wasn't mentioned at all. They may just go back to doing that again. Hard to say. I sometimes think the only way to make Clea a viable character would be to permanently exile her somehow from the Dark Dimension and force her to have to live on earth or Asgard. That would free her up to be used on other teams and not just be seen as Stephen Strange's (ex)wife. If they do bring her back though, they're going to have to address this horrid memory wipe situation. I'm sure the writer thought that having Strange wipe her memories was a big emotional moment for Strange and we were all supposed to feel sorry for him: poor Stephen sacrifices his love to save the universe. Bah. Strange robbed Clea of her own history and her own emotions. He gave her no choice in the matter. That was unforgivable, IMO. If Marvel truly wants to break up these two forever, all they need to do is give Clea her own memories back and let her realize what he did to her. I'd be hard pressed to believe that she'd ever take him back after that.

The moment Strange choose to erase Clea's memories of him, I felt bad for him. It was clear he still felt something for her and it hurt.

The writers show him having one night stands all the time and i'm like WTF! This just ake him erasing Clea's memories be worthless and weightless.

I hope this won't be dangling forever and gonna be solved by the next writer of Doctor Strange ongoing.

Clea was my 'gateway' character into Marvel comics back in the 70s. I loved Strange but I always loved Clea too because she seemed like a classic fantasy novel type character, despite some awfully bad characterizations at times. I hope that Marvel does find some way to restore her memories and continue to use her in stories. We'll see. Maybe they will. Maybe she'll make a surprise appearance in the next film, and Marvel will use that as an excuse to put her back in the comics. I have no idea. If not, too bad.

As for horn dog Strange... UGH. It's like contemporary writers looked at Strange's origin story, in which, when he became Sorcerer Supreme he shed all of his ambition, callous greed, and history of using and discarding women and they said, "BORING! We like playboy, arrogant, jerk Doctor Strange! Quick! Heal his hands so he can be an arrogant surgeon again, and start writing him like magical Tony Stark! We'll say he's such a rash arrogant ass that he has no friends left, but the ladies will think he's catnip so we can hook him up with everybody! LOL!" I truly do regard post-New Avengers Doctor Strange as a different character from Classic Strange. Back in the Marvel bankruptcy/rising from the grave era when Marvel was rebooting the franchise, it would have been easy for them to toss Strange on the trash heap of comics history instead of modernizing him by busting him down and sticking him on the Avengers. Their gamble did pay off because Strange is a popular character now, and the movies have made him even more popular, so that's all good. He is different though. At least he got a (ghost) dog out of all of these changes, so that's a good thing. I don't think Classic Strange would ever have got himself a dog.

Writers basically made Dr Strange the Magical Tony Stark.

Writers also have the problem of wanting to use charaters as a way to live their own fantasies

[Clea]

Clea, that's as well summed and well reasoned as I could ask for, and, alas, I'm in agreement. I haven't read Doc in possibly decades, not liking the characterizations he's been given, and have antipathy towards this whole Death-Of concept generally, and for Doc, especially. I'll be following this thread with interest, though, as the tale unfolds. & I think "Clea-in-the-Dark-Dimension," written well, thoughtfully, and maybe as a story of struggle to regain a 'nation,' might well be good movie material based on a comic book of the same name. (A Kelly Thompson story?)

I think that Kelly Thompson would be able to write Clea well. However, I don't think there is any real interest in a Clea-centric, Dark Dimension story. Marvel isn't going to do anything that will substantially alter the association between Dormammu and the Dark Dimension, so Clea will never win her battle. What would be the point? She's frozen in the role of leader of a plucky band of rebel forces in a dimension far, far away and out of sight/out of mind from 99.9% of the rest of the Marvel Universe. She had her longest run in Strange's own books when she was living on earth as Strange's student learning to develop her magical abilities. Once she mastered her skills and returned to the Dark Dimension, and her romance with Strange ended, that was the end of her usefulness as a character. Now, with not even memories to tie her to Stephen Strange, she becomes more irrelevant going forward. I'll be interested to see what, if anything, Marvel does with her in the future. If she shows up in the next film then she'd almost certainly show up in the comics again reasonably soon. Otherwise, I suspect she'll remain in character limbo. We'll see.

[Albert1981]

I really liked the Doctor Strange What If episode. I thought it did the whole time travel/multiverse thing much better than the Loki series. I felt it had stakes and consequences. I also liked this week's zombie episode too. Made me think that maybe Stephen COULD fit in a horror flick. I mean, the Walking Dead is wildly popular. I'm actually surprised that the MCU hasn't done the horror thing already. I'm still not keen on Fox and non-magical MCU characters showing up in Doctor Strange 2 though. I'm cool with folks like Doctor Doom, Werewolf by Night, Man-Thing, Captain Britain and Ghost Rider appearing, but the X-stuff makes no sense to me. The Doctor Strange What If episode made me doubt that Clea will appear in the Multiverse of Madness, however. The show made it sound like Palmer is his "soulmate."