Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Albert1981]

ONE writer suggested Stephen was destined to be Sorceror Supreme, but that was J.M. Dematteis, who rather enjoys his Chosen One narratives. There's a fellow name PTOR who had a lot to say on the subject:

http://sanctumsanctorumcomix.blogspo...doctor_09.html



Honestly, I think that's been blown out of proportion. Yeah, they said that in THOR, but at the same time you had semi-intelligent unliftable hammers, shapeshifting half-giants, and whatever the Hel the Destroyer is. If anything, it was used as a metaphor, not an explanation.

Oh, I love metaphors. I really enjoy their use in storytelling. But thanks for that link! I also oppose the idea of chosen ones in fiction. I like characters who hold their future destinies within their own hands. For good or ill.

[Albert1981]

I guess Strange is a lot less noble and virtuous nowadays than he used to be? I mean, from what I understand he's becoming closer in personality to Stark these days (both in the comics and the movies). I vaguely remember him being a womanizer BEFORE he met the Ancient One. But now he's really into hook-ups with a variety of women? I read that he's become more like a cast member of medical dramas like House and Grey's Anatomy. And I hated those shows to be quite honest with you. But for some reason, I kinda like him being a womanizing wisecracker, you know? Maybe it's because I'm not as familiar with him as long time fans of him are. And I have learned that many Strange fans actually DON'T want him to be funny and despise him being a skirt-chasing jackass. I personally like him being a quipper. Makes him VASTLY more interesting to me.

[Lee Stone]

I'm not sure what the current rules are, but this stuff was canon for the longest time:

http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/magapp.htm

Adding to this, the first three were previously referred to as 'Personal Energy', 'Universal Energy' and 'Dimensional Energy'. The new names are cooler, though.

This is quoted from the '80s Marvel RPG, which had input from Roger Stern, the Doctor Strange writer at the time-

"Magical energy can be drawn from three different sources: personal, universal, and dimensional.
Each source of energy yields a slightly different form of magic, although it is easy to achieve the same result using different sources. Most magic-wielding characters have more than one source that they have learned to tap into. Learning the differences between these energies is the key to being an efficient magic-wielder.

Personal Energies are derived from the personal energy of the character's soul/mind/body. This energy fuels any power or spell that affects the caster himself or a willing subject. Trances, astral form, thought projections, physical alterations, and so forth, can all use personal energy.

Universal Energies are gained by tapping this universe's ambient magical energy and channeling it for special effects. It is used for spells and powers affecting the world outside the sorcerer. Teleportation, attacks, illusions, and so on, tap the energy fields of the universe, using the magician as a focus.

Dimensional Energies are used by tapping beings or objects of power dwelling in mystical dimensions, tangential to our own. This form of energy is the least wearing upon the user. The sorcerer may only use these energies for powerful spells, groups of spells, or to ask for things that the being or aspect called upon would and/or could provide. The dimensional energies are usually gained by the recitation of spells, either ritualized ones found in various mystical texts or by original spells invoking extra-dimensional assistance.
If calling upon an extra-dimensional being it is important to remember that the magic-wielder makes himself known to the being he is calling, and often to other magic-wielding beings powerful enough to monitor the use of dimensional energy."

[Albert1981]

Adding to this, the first three were previously referred to as 'Personal Energy', 'Universal Energy' and 'Dimensional Energy'. The new names are cooler, though.

This is quoted from the '80s Marvel RPG, which had input from Roger Stern, the Doctor Strange writer at the time-

"Magical energy can be drawn from three different sources: personal, universal, and dimensional.
Each source of energy yields a slightly different form of magic, although it is easy to achieve the same result using different sources. Most magic-wielding characters have more than one source that they have learned to tap into. Learning the differences between these energies is the key to being an efficient magic-wielder.

Personal Energies are derived from the personal energy of the character's soul/mind/body. This energy fuels any power or spell that affects the caster himself or a willing subject. Trances, astral form, thought projections, physical alterations, and so forth, can all use personal energy.

Universal Energies are gained by tapping this universe's ambient magical energy and channeling it for special effects. It is used for spells and powers affecting the world outside the sorcerer. Teleportation, attacks, illusions, and so on, tap the energy fields of the universe, using the magician as a focus.

Dimensional Energies are used by tapping beings or objects of power dwelling in mystical dimensions, tangential to our own. This form of energy is the least wearing upon the user. The sorcerer may only use these energies for powerful spells, groups of spells, or to ask for things that the being or aspect called upon would and/or could provide. The dimensional energies are usually gained by the recitation of spells, either ritualized ones found in various mystical texts or by original spells invoking extra-dimensional assistance.
If calling upon an extra-dimensional being it is important to remember that the magic-wielder makes himself known to the being he is calling, and often to other magic-wielding beings powerful enough to monitor the use of dimensional energy."

Thank you so much for this info! It's like the CliffsNotes version of explaining magic in the Marvel Universe.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

I guess Strange is a lot less of a noble and virtuous nowadays than he used to be? I mean, from what I understand he's becoming closer in personality to Stark these days (both in the comics and the movies). I vaguely remember him being a womanizer BEFORE he met the Ancient One. But now he's really into hook-ups with a variety of women? I read that he's become more like a cast member of medical dramas like House and Grey's Anatomy. And I hated those shows to be quite honest with you. But for some reason, I kinda like him being a womanizing wisecracker, you know? Maybe it's because I'm not as familiar with him as long time fans of him are. And I have learned that many Strange fans actually DON'T want him to be funny and despise him being a skirt-chasing jackass. I personally like him being a quipper. Makes him VASTLY more interesting to me.

I'm assuming you're a newbie when it comes to comics or a youngster in comic yers. I'm an old man when it comes to comics so I come off as a cranky old man when speaking of comics but yes Strange became a lot less noble around the 2000s. As did most characters. Previously he wasn't a womanizer and Clea left to go back to her dimension. Nowadays, he a skirt chaser who regularly employs dark magic and he may have cheated on Clea and etc, etc. The same thing that happened with most characters in the 2000s (Wanda is crazy, the illuminati, the X-men, hawkeye killing, etc, etc). They all suddenly became darker and less noble.

Personally, I think it a loss. The new strange is far less interesting than the old one especially as they tried stripping away everything that made him, him in the old days during the 2000s.

To quote someone else, "Too many writers think arrogance is his flaw as a superhero, when that's incorrect. Arrogance was the flaw he had to overcome to become a superhero."

My two cents.

[Albert1981]

I'm assuming you're a newbie when it comes to comics or a youngster in comic yers. I'm an old man when it comes to comics so I come off as a cranky old man when speaking of comics but yes Strange became a lot less noble around the 2000s. As did most characters. Previously he wasn't a womanizer and Clea left to go back to her dimension. Nowadays, he a skirt chaser who regularly employs dark magic and he may have cheated on Clea and etc, etc. The same thing that happened with most characters in the 2000s (Wanda is crazy, the illuminati, the X-men, hawkeye killing, etc, etc). They all suddenly became darker and less noble.

Personally, I think it a loss. The new strange is far less interesting than the old one especially as they tried stripping away everything that made him, him in the old days during the 2000s.

To quote someone else, "Too many writers think arrogance is his flaw as a superhero, when that's incorrect. Arrogance was the flaw he had to overcome to become a superhero."

My two cents.

Thank you for sharing your very insightful, knowledgeable and honest opinion. I wouldn't say I'm a comic book newbie per se. I read casually quite a bit in the 90s. Never had a pull-list or anything, but am generally more aware of Marvel than the folks who see the movies and shows. But WAY less than the folks who populate these forums. I suppose idealism is a bit passe for comic books these days. I was VERY surprised to to find out that during that whole Civil War storyline (which I actually haven't read), Mister Fantastic and Iron Man became fascist dickheads! I'm really happy the films and shows have thus far stayed away from that ****. But to me, Strange's and Stark's personalities are now almost interchangeable in the MCU. I wonder if the comics even went so far as to make Stephen an alcoholic now!

[DigiCom]

Adding to this, the first three were previously referred to as 'Personal Energy', 'Universal Energy' and 'Dimensional Energy'. The new names are cooler, though.

The new names came from The Marvel Tarot, by David Sexton, which came out in 2007. A rather nifty little sourcebook for Marvel magic, which has sadly been disregarded by later scribes.

[Lee Stone]

The new names came from The Marvel Tarot, by David Sexton, which came out in 2007. A rather nifty little sourcebook for Marvel magic, which has sadly been disregarded by later scribes.

I remember when it came out.
I was debating on getting it because I wasn’t sure if Marvel was going to do anything with it.
And of course, they didn’t.

I do like that they kept it basically the same, for the most part.

I’m not much of a fan of the ‘magic has a cost’ thing, though.
Not unless it’s necromancy or using Dimensional Energy from an evil source.

[Albert1981]

Sadly magic is even more inconsistent in the Marvel Universe than is science. Which I think explains why the mystical corner of Marvel has often been somewhat neglected?

[DigiCom]

Sadly magic is even more inconsistent in the Marvel Universe than is science. Which I think explains why the mystical corner of Marvel has often been somewhat neglected?

Which is a bit unfair, given that science in the comics is treated like magic more often than not. Especially some of Mister Fantastic's gadgets.

[scouse mouse]

Did anyone here read Captain Marvel this week? spoilers:

Carol and Stephen end up sleeping together.

end of spoilers

I wonder if Elektra will be jealous?🤔😂

[Daedra]

I remember when it came out.
I was debating on getting it because I wasn’t sure if Marvel was going to do anything with it.
And of course, they didn’t.

I do like that they kept it basically the same, for the most part.

I’m not much of a fan of the ‘magic has a cost’ thing, though.
Not unless it’s necromancy or using Dimensional Energy from an evil source.

Magic had a cost and it was hard study, spiritual enlightenment, karmic growth and practice of the mystic ARTS (not everyone can be an artist, we all can make a basic figure with play-doh but there’s only one Michelangelo ) Ditko really knew his stuff!
All the latest “magic has a cost” garbage comes form Aaron and it is nothing more than the lowest hanging fruit plucked right from the tree of uninspired cheap storitelling and crass fan fiction.

[Lee Stone]

Sadly magic is even more inconsistent in the Marvel Universe than is science. Which I think explains why the mystical corner of Marvel has often been somewhat neglected?

Magic tends to be neglected by DC and Marvel both unless they can find a writer interested in the concept. Which is pretty rare.
DC lucked out with Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison all being interested in the concept of magic, but other writers seem to imagine that magic just means the hero can do whatever they wish.

I think Marvel in the ‘70s had writers that were interested in magic and the supernatural enough to want to write about it.
But today, it’s all about the pew pew and magical characters are considered over-powered on the superhero playing field.
(Never mind that magic-users have bigger fish to fry on their own playing field.)

For Dr. Strange or any magic-based property to reach the heights that they did in the ‘70s and early ‘80s it’s going to take a writer that wants to write about such things, and not from a WWE/superhero angle.
They could assign a big name writer to do it, but if that writer thinks magic is silly or doesn’t make sense to them, they’re going to write a superhero comic with the name Dr. Strange, and the character will get depowered again to make them manageable.
Any magic he does do will be based on superhero powers like blasting, flying and creating a shield.

[Albert1981]

I've mentioned this on numerous occasions on various CBR threads, but I will be redundant and repeat myself again. I, like many other readers who read comic books and other sorts of fiction, like stories of people INVENTING, CREATING and DISCOVERING things. There's a reason why folks like Thomas Edison, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Howard Hughes and Elon Musk have been treated as geniuses and revolutionaries. A lot of their work was based on science and technology. I think that's MUCH easier for writers to work with, you know? Magic is kind of esoteric and mysterious to lay folks like myself. Most people think of magicians as people like Criss Angel, Penn & Teller and David Copperfield. And quite a few skeptics think they're frauds. NOT superheroes. So I do think that's why the general audiences don't take magic stories as being serious. Science fiction can show where societies are heading, how technology will play a role in human cultures and even get into debates on ethical and moral issues. Magic just doesn't delve into any those subjects (in my experience). Science fiction stories deals with the future and has RULES (look at how Endgame made such an effort to explain how time travel could conceivably work), while magical stories often take place in the past in fantastical worlds and writers just "use their imagination" when describing it in their stories. And a lot of those stories are basically pretty black and white (good versus evil) ones with a HEAVY emphasis on horror elements and chivalry of some sort. They also tend to focus a lot of their tales on LANGUAGES as well (a subject I'm personally very interested in). I really REALLY enjoy those stories and LOVE reading about them (Big fan of the Chronicles of Narnia and the Lord of the Rings here), but I do understand why writers lean towards science/technology stories over the magical/mystical ones.

I will also have to acknowledge that my views about magic, death, justice, action, romance and even HUMOR in superhero stories are EXTREMELY unpopular in these CBR threads and I have taken some (friendly) heat for sharing them here. I appreciate the open-minded and good-nature of the posters who oppose my opinions, but I have made no headway in convincing other folks here that my points of view make any sense!

[Clea]

Magic tends to be neglected by DC and Marvel both unless they can find a writer interested in the concept. Which is pretty rare.
DC lucked out with Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison all being interested in the concept of magic, but other writers seem to imagine that magic just means the hero can do whatever they wish.

I think Marvel in the ‘70s had writers that were interested in magic and the supernatural enough to want to write about it.
But today, it’s all about the pew pew and magical characters are considered over-powered on the superhero playing field.
(Never mind that magic-users have bigger fish to fry on their own playing field.)

For Dr. Strange or any magic-based property to reach the heights that they did in the ‘70s and early ‘80s it’s going to take a writer that wants to write about such things, and not from a WWE/superhero angle.
They could assign a big name writer to do it, but if that writer thinks magic is silly or doesn’t make sense to them, they’re going to write a superhero comic with the name Dr. Strange, and the character will get depowered again to make them manageable.
Any magic he does do will be based on superhero powers like blasting, flying and creating a shield.

I agree with you, with one caveat. Doctor Strange's stories were most successful in the past when he was pretty much siloed off in the Marvel magical universe and kept away from the regular superheroes. When he had good writers who understood how to portray Marvel magic (which did have rules despite what so many seem to think), Strange's stories were wonderful and weird. Those writers understood how the Sorcerer Supreme character was distinct from other magic users. But even then, at the height of his popularity, the character was still very much off in his own little bubble and his books really weren't selling well compared to other blockbuster titles. It was hard to cross him over into the wider Marvel universe and do it well. Marvel comics readers by and large liked their heroes to be easy to understand, fist-fighting villains (and each other), or using cool quasi science fiction or military inspired tech to take down the bad guys. Most of the Marvel writers didn't know how to write a Sorcerer so they ended up turning Strange into a magical deus ex machina more often than not. That's boring. Marvel went bankrupt and went through a long stretch of re-evaluating and updating their characters. When they got around to Strange I think they viewed him as a fantastic B list character who couldn't sustain a title on his own. They knew that the bulk of their comics-buying audience weren't interested in magic, so they turned Strange into a New Avenger and then spent the next several years depowering him over and over, and retooling his personality to be more like Tony Stark because Tony was so popular. They ditched his pulp-fiction/fantasy novel inspired alien sorceress girlfriend (sob!) and started to turn him into a sexy player type because more readers like to read about single playboy types instead of 'boring' married types. They even gave him a whole school of kid magic users to test if turning him into Magical Professor X might sell well.

So, I do agree with you that Marvel needs a good writer who understands the Marvel magical universe to write Strange well, but I'm not sure that will work out in the long run because they've depowered the character quite a lot to fit him into the Avengers toolbox. It's worse in the MCU in some regards. The movies took the Eye of Agamotto and turned it into just another Infinity Stone. If a new writer came along and kept to the more classical old-school interpretation of the character, Strange would quickly end up back in the magical universe bubble, and that turns off the majority of Marvel fans. Just my opinion, but I still don't think that Marvel quite knows what to do with Strange.