Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Iron Maiden]

Oh yeah? I've heard good things about it too. Thanks for the recommendation.

IMO Stern's Doctor Strange is better than Englehart's but your mileage may vary. IIRC there is a foreshadowing in his run for the Triumph and Torment graphic novel he was working on at that time. I'd have to go back and reread his Doctor Strange to pick them out.

There is a lengthy interview he did a while back where he discusses his work on Doctor Strange that may be of interest.

[Albert1981]

I'm hoping this movie isn't as crowded as the theories. Otherwise the movie will be a mess.

I REALLY hope that Feige and his team pull back on any ideas of ADDING more characters to Strange 2. That movie doesn't need to have its focused "scattered". Since Strange 2 IS a movie (as opposed to a television show), I hope it "forces" the writers to create a more focused and evenly-paced story. I liked WandaVision quite a bit, but I think the show made a mistake with the Bohner "twist". I thought it was pretty funny because I understand the director and head writer were influenced by "Growing Pains". BUT, I felt they wasted WAY too much time on Fietro in Episode 6 and then forgot about him later on. And having Billy and Tommy sort of "raised" by a complete stranger is kind of weird to me.

[Albert1981]

IMO Stern's Doctor Strange is better than Englehart's but your mileage may vary. IIRC there is a foreshadowing in his run for the Triumph and Torment graphic novel he was working on at that time. I'd have to go back and reread his Doctor Strange to pick them out.

There is a lengthy interview he did a while back where he discusses his work on Doctor Strange that may be of interest.

Thanks for the recommendation! I guess Stern was very passionate about Strange, which is cool.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks for the recommendation! I guess Stern was very passionate about Strange, which is cool.

You're welcome. I forgot to post the link to the Roger Stern interview. It goes on for 3 pages and he discusses his work on Doctor Strange on page 3 I didn't notice a date on the article so I don't know what year this is from. But it goes into a lot of interesting history of his early years in the industry writing for Marvel with John Byrne, Jim Shooter and Bob Layton. They all started around the same time.

[GenericUsername]

I REALLY hope that Feige and his team pull back on any ideas of ADDING more characters to Strange 2. That movie doesn't need to have its focused "scattered". Since Strange 2 IS a movie (as opposed to a television show), I hope it "forces" the writers to create a more focused and evenly-paced story. I liked WandaVision quite a bit, but I think the show made a mistake with the Bohner "twist". I thought it was pretty funny because I understand the director and head writer were influenced by "Growing Pains". BUT, I felt they wasted WAY too much time on Fietro in Episode 6 and then forgot about him later on. And having Billy and Tommy sort of "raised" by a complete stranger is kind of weird to me.

I think most of that is wild fan rumors. It's too far of a stretch that even Reed can't make. I get that everyone got excited about the Multiverse being mentioned, and there will likely be some of that. But it'll be more contained than a lot of fantasies. And with Shuma-Gorath in it, it's likely focused on him being the ruler of multiple dimensions. I doubt very much they'd make the nonsensical mess that I see in some of these "leaked" scripts. Because that'd make for a terrible, cheesy movie.

[MRP]

IMO Stern's Doctor Strange is better than Englehart's but your mileage may vary. IIRC there is a foreshadowing in his run for the Triumph and Torment graphic novel he was working on at that time. I'd have to go back and reread his Doctor Strange to pick them out.

There is a lengthy interview he did a while back where he discusses his work on Doctor Strange that may be of interest.

Stern didn't have to contend with editors changing every issue and approved storylines getting rejected by new editors who just didn't like Steve and wanted him off the book either. Englehart's run suffers from the tail end of it and the unfinished nature of it because of editorial interference changing storylines after Englehart had turned in the script and then ordering fill in creators to abandon what Englehart had set up and then the editor stepped in as writer to immediately undo what Englehart had done and try to eradicate any changed Englehart had made during his run. It's a big reason why Englehart left Marvel to go to DC.

I agree that overall, the Stern run was better, but the early part of the Englehart from Marvel Premiere and the early issues of Doc's 2nd series was phenomenal and my favorite post-Ditko Doc run (I'm not sure anything will ever top the Ditko run for me for the sheer creativity of it all). However, once Marvel started playing musical editorial chairs, Englehart's run dipped in quality both from actual editorial changes and frim Englehart just throwing up his hands and not trying anymore because of it. The only Stern story that reaches the kind of heights those early Englehart stories did for me was Triumph & Torment. The rest of his stuff is very good, but isn't the kind of transcendently creative stuff that was the hallmark of the Ditko and early Englehart runs, but it also doesn't have the dips in quality the tail end of the Englehart run did.

-M

[Albert1981]

You're welcome. I forgot to post the link to the Roger Stern interview. It goes on for 3 pages and he discusses his work on Doctor Strange on page 3 I didn't notice a date on the article so I don't know what year this is from. But it goes into a lot of interesting history of his early years in the industry writing for Marvel with John Byrne, Jim Shooter and Bob Layton. They all started around the same time.

Wow! Thanks for the link. Stern was a big deal in comics back in the 80s wasn't he?

[ed2962]

They did a half-hearted version of an Avengers team for the supernatal in the Uncanny Avengers series. It had the Scarlet Witch and at one point Doctor Voodoo on the team. But it was mostly a combination of Avengers & X-Men characters. Doctor Voodoo did have his own series called Doctor Voodoo Avenger of the Supernatural also. I wish they would do a series with the Avengers of the Supernatural. The Dark Avengers mainly was just Osborn's team of villains disguised as heroes but that was about it.

Yes, you're right about Dark Avengers, I should have said "Mystic Avengers". Justice League Dark was on my mind.

[John Venus]

The previous page of this thread really confused me. It took me way too long to realize that you were all talking about Benjamin Franklin and not Franklin Richards. I was like 'when did little Franklin become a playa?". LOL Although to be fair, I was skimming through the thread.

[Albert1981]

I think most of that is wild fan rumors. It's too far of a stretch that even Reed can't make. I get that everyone got excited about the Multiverse being mentioned, and there will likely be some of that. But it'll be more contained than a lot of fantasies. And with Shuma-Gorath in it, it's likely focused on him being the ruler of multiple dimensions. I doubt very much they'd make the nonsensical mess that I see in some of these "leaked" scripts. Because that'd make for a terrible, cheesy movie.

It will be cheesy if it becomes overstuffed like the rumors are hinting at. I still think adding more new characters to the movie is a REALLY bad idea.

[GenericUsername]

It will be cheesy if it becomes overstuffed like the rumors are hinting at. I still think adding more new characters to the movie is a REALLY bad idea.

Yeah the movie is already stuffed to the brim, and toxic fans act like it shouldn't even be a Doctor Strange film. I saw Twitter posts asking for the movie to be cancelled. And for them just to release a Scarlet Witch movie. Not only is it another example of certain fans not being able to stay in their own lane. But also it'd take far longer to create a whole new movie.

I really wish sometimes that Feige was more like James Gunn and tell people bluntly that some things are bs.

And really some fans deserve to be disappointed for trying to push for another fandom to lose a movie about their fave. So I hope they don't get anything on their wish list.

Bah humbug.

[Albert1981]

Yeah the movie is already stuffed to the brim, and toxic fans act like it shouldn't even be a Doctor Strange film. I saw Twitter posts asking for the movie to be cancelled. And for them just to release a Scarlet Witch movie. Not only is it another example of certain fans not being able to stay in their own lane. But also it'd take far longer to create a whole new movie.

I really wish sometimes that Feige was more like James Gunn and tell people bluntly that some things are bs.

And really some fans deserve to be disappointed for trying to push for another fandom to lose a movie about their fave. So I hope they don't get anything on their wish list.

Bah humbug.

No kidding! I didn't know Wanda "stans" could be so repugnant. Wasn't WandaVision sort of a Scarlet Witch "movie"? I don't remember reading about Daredevil fans wanting him to "take over" Echo's show on Disney Plus (should Matt make it into the MCU). I certainly haven't heard Banner fans wanting him to overshadow Walters in She-Hulk either. I guess this situation could be comparable to how some older Spider-Man fans want Tobey and Andrew to sideline Tom in No Way Home. MCU fandom can be pretty dickish in my opinion. It would be nice if Feige puts some of these people in their places. But he acts like a WAY more friendlier version of Bill Belichick most of the time. We won't get any straight answers from him.

I'm more interested in the whole "rules of magic" thing in the MCU. Loki's show did cover the rules of multiverses, but I think magic should have them too. A Strange movie would be a good place to drill down on these things. When you really think about it, Loki's series didn't have all that much magic in it.

[GenericUsername]

No kidding! I didn't know Wanda "stans" could be so repugnant. Wasn't WandaVision sort of a Scarlet Witch "movie"? I don't remember reading about Daredevil fans wanting him to "take over" Echo's show on Disney Plus (should Matt make it into the MCU). I certainly haven't heard Banner fans wanting him to overshadow Walters in She-Hulk either. I guess this situation could be comparable to how some older Spider-Man fans want Tobey and Andrew to sideline Tom in No Way Home. MCU fandom can be pretty dickish in my opinion. It would be nice if Feige puts some of these people in their places. But he acts like a WAY more friendlier version of Bill Belichick most of the time. We won't get any straight answers from him.

I'm more interested in the whole "rules of magic" thing in the MCU. Loki's show did cover the rules of multiverses, but I think magic should have them too. A Strange movie would be a good place to drill down on these things. When you really think about it, Loki's series didn't have all that much magic in it.

I think stans of any fandom are like that. They are young and just don't know where the line of decency is. There are a lot of Wanda fans that are very respectful and want Strange to have his time to shine.

Daredevil stans on Twitter have wanted him to take over Echo and even rumored it as a Daredevil show. Daredevil stans have also posted under every post on social media asking for their show back. They are among the least able to stay in their own lane.

I don't hear much from Hulk stans (are there Hulk stans?).

There are Spider-man fans that are also respectful. The stans are the problem.

I think they are doing the long game for developing magic. You can tell they are building up something by slowly introducing members of the Midnight Sons into the MCU.

[Albert1981]

I think stans of any fandom are like that. They are young and just don't know where the line of decency is. There are a lot of Wanda fans that are very respectful and want Strange to have his time to shine.

Daredevil stans on Twitter have wanted him to take over Echo and even rumored it as a Daredevil show. Daredevil stans have also posted under every post on social media asking for their show back. They are among the least able to stay in their own lane.

I don't hear much from Hulk stans (are there Hulk stans?).

There are Spider-man fans that are also respectful. The stans are the problem.

I think they are doing the long game for developing magic. You can tell they are building up something by slowly introducing members of the Midnight Sons into the MCU.

That's terrible. These fans really need to calm down! I guess Echo being somewhat of a "newer" and more "obscure" character, I can understand why folks would want people from the "Daredevil franchise" to play a huge role in her show. But for Daredevil fans to say that Echo's show is Daredevil's is NUTS! I'm sure Hulk fans are looking forward to seeing Banner back in live-action again in She-Hulk. But I don't think they want him to overshadow Jennifer. It IS hard for these movies and shows to "divide" time between characters. I have heard and agree with some of the criticism that Natasha was sidelined in favor of Yelena in Black Widow and that Loki was a "side character" next to Sylvie in the Loki series. You could even make the argument that Walker and Zemo stole the spotlight from Sam and Bucky at times in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. The ONLY Disney Plus Marvel show that balanced things right in my opinion was WandaVision. I know some folks have criticized Schaeffer and her team's work on WandaVision, but they did a REALLY good job of putting the spotlight on Wanda, while at the same time giving some love to Vision too. So I think it's good to give credit where credit's due. I just think Agatha could have used the screen time that was given to "Fietro" during that series.

As for magic, maybe they are playing the long game. But I'm getting IMPATIENT! The best part of fantasy stories are their magic systems in my opinion. What magic CAN'T do is often where character and story conflicts come from. I wanna know what are the limits of Strange's and Wanda's powers. I'm curious to see what Raimi does for the sequel. As a kid I LOVED Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and he produced that series. So I think Raimi can handle magic just fine.

[Iron Maiden]

These young'uns or "stans" (that's a new one to these ancient eyes) have no patience. We Doom fans are still waiting ....and I don't count the 3 awful Fox studios versions. those were just DINOs