Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2021

[Thievery]

No I just meant that she might wonder if he would still be interested in her now that she's in a different body and such, it could be a reason that so far nothing has happened between them, my fear is just that some would view them not being together as the final word on them being together or not...which we know that it wouldn't be...

Well alright, Logan, but if Betsy is nervous that Archangel wouldn't be interested in her because she is in her old body and not Kwannon's, well I don't think that that says a whole lot of good things about Angel.

It means that he only liked Betsy for her hot Asian body, and didn't really care about Betsy the person. Not a good look for Angel

I still think that Angel is avoiding Betsy because of what happened in Disassembled. Just my opinion. Betsy forced Warren back into his Archangel form, and he didn't like it. Or at least I hope that is the case. Like I said earlier, it would look bad if it turned out that Angel only cared about Betsy because of her Asian looks, and doesn't give a **** about who she really is.
We are not going to know the answer to this until the story is finally told.

Would be nice if we got the 616 versions of these character finally interacting instead of AUs

Yeah, my long post that you responded to was my hope that we get to see the 616 versions of the characters.

But, I'm starting to think that the Captain Britain/Betsy character that appears in the most recent issue of Excalibur may be the AU Betsy from the reality that 616 Betsy was trapped in. The Betsy that popped up near the light house in that issue was dressed like QEIII, and not like the Betsy who went through the light house to go back to the 616 reality.

I hope that I'm wrong.

Yes it would, which could also mean that Warren wouldn't be mad at her after what happened in Disassembled...

But if it is the 616 versions of Captain Britain/Betsy and Archangel, that would mean that Archangel would still be upset with Betsy, and Angel and Captain/Britain Betsy may not care about each other. The Uncanny X-Men Disassembled story took place in the main 616 reality, not an alternate reality. I don't see how being an alternate reality story would wipe out what happened in Disassembled.
I guess that we will have to keep reading to find out.

Unless I am misunderstanding your post

[LoganAlpha30X33]

That's not what it would have to mean at all, just that she would be scared that he wouldn't love her in her new body, but she could very easily just be overdoing her fear about it if things went that way, that her looks weren't THE reason that Warren loves her...and again writers could have Warren have gotten over Disassembled, and I have no doubt that Warren loves Betsy for FAR more than just her looks, not because of the Asian body...

[Thievery]

That's not what it would have to mean at all, just that she would be scared that he wouldn't love her in her new body, but she could very easily just be overdoing her fear about it if things went that way, that her looks weren't THE reason that Warren loves her...and again writers could have Warren have gotten over Disassembled, and I have no doubt that Warren loves Betsy for FAR more than just her looks, not because of the Asian body...

Well then Logan, If Betsy has some reason to think that Warren is no longer interested in her because she is in her original body and not Kwannon's, then I think the easy way for her to find out would be for her to use her telepathy. She does have that. Seems to me that using it would solve whether or not Warren still cared about her would be the easy solution to this situation. Unless she already has used it and we just haven't seen the answer on panel yet.

Until we see some evidence that Warren is over Disassembled, I'm going with the idea that Angel still resents her. He wasn't even on the Excalibur team. I guess that until we see them on panel we just wont know. Hopefully that story comes soon.
Just so we will have something new to talk about in this thread.

[SJNeal]

Just so we will have something new to talk about in this thread.

Good luck with that...

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well then Logan, If Betsy has some reason to think that Warren is no longer interested in her because she is in her original body and not Kwannon's, then I think the easy way for her to find out would be for her to use her telepathy. She does have that. Seems to me that using it would solve whether or not Warren still cared about her would be the easy solution to this situation. Unless she already has used it and we just haven't seen the answer on panel yet.

Until we see some evidence that Warren is over Disassembled, I'm going with the idea that Angel still resents her. He wasn't even on the Excalibur team. I guess that until we see them on panel we just wont know. Hopefully that story comes soon.
Just so we will have something new to talk about in this thread.

I was just saying that her wondering that could be given as a reason that they haven't talked much and such, not saying that he wouldn't want her, and would she just invade his mind without asking. I highly doubt that Marvel didn't put Warren on that team because of how he felt about Betsy...

[Thievery]

So, has anyone else read Archangel: Phantom Wings. I dont think that it has come up in an Archangel thread yet.
Peter Milligan was the writer and Leonardo Manco was the artist. The comic was black and white, no coloring.

The story takes place after Archangel was attacked by Sabretooth, and had his wings damaged by him.

The story starts wit Angel trying to fly as high and fast as he as he can. Along the way he is captured by a woman named Tuesday, and Angel is kept prisoner in her fortress. She seems a bit mentally unstable. Warren grows sick and feverish while Tuesday holds him prisoner. Eventually, Tuesday helps Angel out by healing Warren's damaged wings.

Every night Tuesday is attacked by a group of crows.

Along the way Tuesday and Warren share stories of their past togather. Angel tells Tuesday about a young man man who lost his wings and would do anything that he could to get them back again.

Tuesday shares a sad story of her past. She was married to a rich man named Donald Bird, a ruthless stock trader. Unfortunately, Bird used to beat Tuesday. One day Tuesday decided to kill her husband. She hits him in the head with a crowbar while Bird is flying his airplane, killing her husband and a large group of crows. Tuesday believes that the crows are sent by her dead husband take revenge on her.

While Angel is sick and sleeping at night, Tuesday begins to heal Warren's wings.
Angel convinces Tuesday that she shouldn't feel ashamed of killing her abusive husband. Angel believes that Tuesday has Psionic powers like some of the other X-Men. That her powers are what are causing the crows to appear every night. Angel convinces Tuesday that if they escape the fortress her dead husband and the crows will stop appearing.

When Angel and Tuesday escape from Tuesday's fortress, Angel discovers that he and Tuesday had ben in the center of New York all along. They were close to her dead husband's tower. When Angel tries to tell Tuesday this, he discovers that Tuesday is missing. She was a ghost all along.

I thought that this was a really good story. Maybe the story didn't become more well known because it was in black and white with no color?

The only thing that I did not like about this story was that it helped start Angel on the path to regaining his feathered wings in place of his metal ones. Returning Angel's feathered wings in place of his metal wings was a bad decision, in my opinion.

[SJNeal]

^ ^ ^

I loved that one-shot! It always struck me as an odd left turn though, and left me with many unanswered questions. As a pseudo-sequel to the events set in motion by the whole Crimson Dawn arc, why didn't it feel like part of that story? Why was it so... Vertigo feeling? Did Marvel commission Milligan to write this? Or did he pitch it? Why was it b&w instead of color?

Anyway, I need to dig out and re-read both Phantom Wings and the Sabretooth: Red Zone special that preceded.

[shooshoomanjoe]

So, has anyone else read Archangel: Phantom Wings. I dont think that it has come up in an Archangel thread yet.
Peter Milligan was the writer and Leonardo Manco was the artist. The comic was black and white, no coloring.

The story takes place after Archangel was attacked by Sabretooth, and had his wings damaged by him.

The story starts wit Angel trying to fly as high and fast as he as he can. Along the way he is captured by a woman named Tuesday, and Angel is kept prisoner in her fortress. She seems a bit mentally unstable. Warren grows sick and feverish while Tuesday holds him prisoner. Eventually, Tuesday helps Angel out by healing Warren's damaged wings.

Every night Tuesday is attacked by a group of crows.

Along the way Tuesday and Warren share stories of their past togather. Angel tells Tuesday about a young man man who lost his wings and would do anything that he could to get them back again.

Tuesday shares a sad story of her past. She was married to a rich man named Donald Bird, a ruthless stock trader. Unfortunately, Bird used to beat Tuesday. One day Tuesday decided to kill her husband. She hits him in the head with a crowbar while Bird is flying his airplane, killing her husband and a large group of crows. Tuesday believes that the crows are sent by her dead husband take revenge on her.

While Angel is sick and sleeping at night, Tuesday begins to heal Warren's wings.
Angel convinces Tuesday that she shouldn't feel ashamed of killing her abusive husband. Angel believes that Tuesday has Psionic powers like some of the other X-Men. That her powers are what are causing the crows to appear every night. Angel convinces Tuesday that if they escape the fortress her dead husband and the crows will stop appearing.

When Angel and Tuesday escape from Tuesday's fortress, Angel discovers that he and Tuesday had ben in the center of New York all along. They were close to her dead husband's tower. When Angel tries to tell Tuesday this, he discovers that Tuesday is missing. She was a ghost all along.

I thought that this was a really good story. Maybe the story didn't become more well known because it was in black and white with no color?

The only thing that I did not like about this story was that it helped start Angel on the path to regaining his feathered wings in place of his metal ones. Returning Angel's feathered wings in place of his metal wings was a bad decision, in my opinion.

I'll have to re-read it. I was a teen when it came out and it didn't make any sense then.

[Thievery]

^ ^ ^

I loved that one-shot! It always struck me as an odd left turn though, and left me with many unanswered questions. As a pseudo-sequel to the events set in motion by the whole Crimson Dawn arc, why didn't it feel like part of that story? Why was it so... Vertigo feeling? Did Marvel commission Milligan to write this? Or did he pitch it? Why was it b&w instead of color?

Anyway, I need to dig out and re-read both Phantom Wings and the Sabretooth: Red Zone special that preceded.

I think that Archangel already had regained his feathered wings by the time that the Crimson Dawn miniseries.
So it might count as more of a prequel? I haven't read Crimson Dawn or the Uncanny X-Men issues that dealt with the Crimson Dawn in a while, so I could easily be wrong.

I honestly thought that the story being told in black and white helped the comic. I felt that it really allowed the artist to show his stuff. I thought that it helped Milligan show off his writing as well. I thought that it added to the mood and atmosphere of the story.

I haven't read enough vertigo to know if this comic matches those stories.

I'll have to re-read it. I was a teen when it came out and it didn't make any sense then.

I read it recently as an adult. I had to re-read one more time to fully understand what was going on. Hell, there were times where I would have to go back and re-read pages after I had just read them.

Still, it was a great read. I think that is one of the greatest Archangel stories ever told.

I may be in the minority on this however, as I dont see the issue talked about very often.

[K7P5V]

I think that is one of the greatest Archangel stories ever told.

Personally, whenever they do these types of stories with Warren, my favorite will always be "Chiaroscuro" from Nocenti/Mazzucchelli (Marvel Fanfare #40):

[Thievery]

Personally, whenever they do these types of stories with Warren, my favorite will always be "Chiaroscuro" from Nocenti/Mazzucchelli (Marvel Fanfare #40):

I've seen this picture before, in a previous Archangel thread.

But, I thought that the picture was about a different character than Archangel. I thought that it was just an example of an Angel story that other readers like, and the type of story that Archangel fans would like to see him appear in.

Is Marvel Fanfare an easy comic to find? How expensive is it to acquire?

[SJNeal]

I think that Archangel already had regained his feathered wings by the time that the Crimson Dawn miniseries.
So it might count as more of a prequel? I haven't read Crimson Dawn or the Uncanny X-Men issues that dealt with the Crimson Dawn in a while, so I could easily be wrong.

I just did a quick check, and you are correct! The reading order should be Uncanny X-Men #328-330, Sabretooth: Red Zone, Archangel: Phantom Wings, Psylocke & Archangel: Crimson Dawn.

I haven't read enough vertigo to know if this comic matches those stories.

The tone is what felt very Vertigo to me; not a standard superhero comic, a little dark & moody.

[SJNeal]

I've seen this picture before, in a previous Archangel thread.

But, I thought that the picture was about a different character than Archangel. I thought that it was just an example of an Angel story that other readers like, and the type of story that Archangel fans would like to see him appear in.

Is Marvel Fanfare an easy comic to find? How expensive is it to acquire?

I come across issues of Marvel Fanfare in $1 bins quite regularly. If there's not an LCS in your area that has a good back issue selection, you can find copies online pretty cheap. MF was a very cool series; I recommend checking out any issues that spotlight your other favorite characters, as they always had an interesting take on them.

[Thievery]

I just did a quick check, and you are correct! The reading order should be Uncanny X-Men #328-330, Sabretooth: Red Zone, Archangel: Phantom Wings, Psylocke & Archangel: Crimson Dawn.



The tone is what felt very Vertigo to me; not a standard superhero comic, a little dark & moody.

Thanks for the giving me reading order for how the whole Crimson Dawn Story unfolded. I was incorrect as to when the issues of Uncanny-X-Men issues took place. Archangel still had his metal wings during the Uncanny issues that involved Dr. Strange. So those had to have happened first.

I believe that some of the Crimson Dawn issues also happened in volume 1 of Excalibur. I didn't read that volume of Excalibur so I could be wrong. I'm also not sure if those issues would have had anything to do with the Psylocke(Betsy) story if they occurred.

I still think that Archangel: Phantom Wings was the best story out of the group.

Thanks for explaining how Phantom: Wings would resemble Vertigo comics. Still not entirely sure what Vertigo is like though. Your explanation was still very helpful.

I come across issues of Marvel Fanfare in $1 bins quite regularly. If there's not an LCS in your area that has a good back issue selection, you can find copies online pretty cheap. MF was a very cool series; I recommend checking out any issues that spotlight your other favorite characters, as they always had an interesting take on them.

Thank you for the information.
It was helpful.

[Silvermoth]

Well alright, Logan, but if Betsy is nervous that Archangel wouldn't be interested in her because she is in her old body and not Kwannon's, well I don't think that that says a whole lot of good things about Angel.

It means that he only liked Betsy for her hot Asian body, and didn't really care about Betsy the person. Not a good look for Angel

I still think that Angel is avoiding Betsy because of what happened in Disassembled. Just my opinion. Betsy forced Warren back into his Archangel form, and he didn't like it. Or at least I hope that is the case. Like I said earlier, it would look bad if it turned out that Angel only cared about Betsy because of her Asian looks, and doesn't give a **** about who she really is.
We are not going to know the answer to this until the story is finally told.



Yeah, my long post that you responded to was my hope that we get to see the 616 versions of the characters.

But, I'm starting to think that the Captain Britain/Betsy character that appears in the most recent issue of Excalibur may be the AU Betsy from the reality that 616 Betsy was trapped in. The Betsy that popped up near the light house in that issue was dressed like QEIII, and not like the Betsy who went through the light house to go back to the 616 reality.

I hope that I'm wrong.




But if it is the 616 versions of Captain Britain/Betsy and Archangel, that would mean that Archangel would still be upset with Betsy, and Angel and Captain/Britain Betsy may not care about each other. The Uncanny X-Men Disassembled story took place in the main 616 reality, not an alternate reality. I don't see how being an alternate reality story would wipe out what happened in Disassembled.
I guess that we will have to keep reading to find out.

Unless I am misunderstanding your post

I’m curious how they will handle the Psylocke/Angel romance. I mean kwannon’s consciousness was still inside her body although Betsy was obviously the dominant personality. There’s a very good chance, considering angel’s mental state at the time he could have been more interested in kwannon than Betsy?

Of course the simple solution is just to say everyone is bisexual and they had a consensual three way which made everyone happy