Scott Summers aka Cyclops Appreciation 2021

[maxi_miceli]

As was previously discussed many times, this is completely false. Not only because Scott and Jean aren't older than most people on that team (and significantly younger than Logan), but Claremont NEVER had plans to retire the likes of Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, etc. The entire point of removing Scott from the table was so his pet character Storm could be the leader. The "having characters moving on" thing was just an excuse.

Really? I didn't know, but now that you say it that does sound very Claremont

[Hizashi]

What do you mean by this? days of future past?

I mean, isn't Moira trying to create one last, good timeline? What if that timeline is the original MU timeline we all know and love? Or at least, basically that timeline but with a favorable outcome for mutants?

[Hizashi]

Anyone else liked his time as Basilisk from the Age of X storyline?

I liked his dynamic with Frenzy and him being the wild card of the group.

The concept and design are cool

[Hizashi]

Pretty much. Marvel (and DC) are in an unwinnable dilemma. I suppose the problem I have is, especially over the last decade-- when Marvel was trying to create or make legacy characters rise to prominence-- in-universe death of a popular character turned into a cheap plot device. Like, you just know it's not going to stick. Hickman coming in and nailing that memo to the wall just further reinforces the statement. All this said, I, personally, can't get invested anymore in X-Men stories because all the resurrection/cloning shenanigans makes it feel like I'm reading a parody. And while some books do try to insert rules to the process (ahem, X-Factor), it now comes off extremely contrived, at best, and feeling like a retcon, at worst. A sort-of "oopsie, now how do we put this mess back inside Pandora's box?"

Ah, well. Too each their own. Moving away from Marvel did allow me to appreciate other books I missed and spend more on other manga titles. I just shelled out for the complete series of Invincible (in part because the animated series got me intrigued) and, wow, I can't believe I ignored this one when it came out.

Yeah, Invincible is great, I'm collecting the hardcovers now.

Ultimate X-Men was a missed opportunity to write the characters and mythos as if it were an indie comic, but as with the majority of the UU it became excessive.

[Hizashi]

As was previously discussed many times, this is completely false. Not only because Scott and Jean aren't older than most people on that team (and significantly younger than Logan), but Claremont NEVER had plans to retire the likes of Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, etc. The entire point of removing Scott from the table was so his pet character Storm could be the leader. The "having characters moving on" thing was just an excuse.

Yikes, keep that guy away from our boy.

[TheDeadSpace]

As was previously discussed many times, this is completely false. Not only because Scott and Jean aren't older than most people on that team (and significantly younger than Logan), but Claremont NEVER had plans to retire the likes of Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, etc. The entire point of removing Scott from the table was so his pet character Storm could be the leader. The "having characters moving on" thing was just an excuse.

Well, while this most likely won't be confirmed by Claremont, it does seem odd that Cyclops was the only one being pushed to retirement. Although, I guess Jean would have been given the same treatment if she stuck around. It all seems rather odd that a superhero would retire in their twenties at their prime.

In mythology, the more common thing is "I'm immortal so I'm going to **** everything that has a pulse", the bar right now is in "turn into a golden shower to impregnate woman locked in a room with no doors" not even a male god turning into a mare to be impregnated by a horse can compete with that
Abandoning human morality, especially regarding heterosexual monogamy, after becoming immortal is kinda a common trope in literature

This trope and concept make sense for what they seem be going for. Unfortunately, I can't say I'm a big fan of it for the X-men considering the time frame. At most it was only 6 months before they decided to change their views on life and entirely embrace a new culture after being sold on "immortality". I feel like some things are being rushed in order to fit the story and it's leaving the development and believability for some aspects behind. At least for me that is. If we were to see the development of most of what we are being given, I'd be much happier, especially when it comes to Scott. Seeing him watch his family form into what he currently has would have created much more emotional weight to me if it were to inevitably fall apart, which I feel like it might. At the end of the day, these are just minor nitpicks for me, and Hickman's direction for the story will probably only make sense at the end. I just hope it's worth it.

[Havok83]

Well, while this most likely won't be confirmed by Claremont, it does seem odd that Cyclops was the only one being pushed to retirement. Although, I guess Jean would have been given the same treatment if she stuck around. It all seems rather odd that a superhero would retire in their twenties at their prime.

He effectively retired Havok and Lorna when he quickly wrote them out and had them go to grad school. Banshee left to settle down with Moira He may or may not have done the same with Angel, Beast and Iceman but they were largely out of his hands as they were being used in Avengers, Defender and/or Champions before X-Factor happened and Claremont was kinda forced to let go of that notion of superheroes retiring

[TheDeadSpace]

He effectively retired Havok and Lorna when he quickly wrote them out and had them go to grad school. Banshee left to settle down with Moira He may or may not have done the same with Angel, Beast and Iceman but they were largely out of his hands as they were being used in Avengers, Defender and/or Champions before X-Factor happened and Claremont was kinda forced to let go of that notion of superheroes retiring

So basically characters he really wasn't interested in got booted? Kind of seems that way and makes me wonder where things might have gone had he continued to move in his desired direction. Hopefully it wouldn't have been like X-men forever.

Thanks for the clarification by the way.

[Omega Alpha]

Havok and Lorna were removed by Len Wein.

He retired Cyclops and Banshee, and not coincidentally they were the most experienced guys (who were not clearly not fit for leadership like Logan) that would be ahead of Storm for a leadership position. Again, he never showed an interest in do that to the characters he created or pretty much created, like Wolverine, Storm or Kitty.

[maxi_miceli]

This trope and concept make sense for what they seem be going for. Unfortunately, I can't say I'm a big fan of it for the X-men considering the time frame. At most it was only 6 months before they decided to change their views on life and entirely embrace a new culture after being sold on "immortality". I feel like some things are being rushed in order to fit the story and it's leaving the development and believability for some aspects behind. At least for me that is. If we were to see the development of most of what we are being given, I'd be much happier, especially when it comes to Scott. Seeing him watch his family form into what he currently has would have created much more emotional weight to me if it were to inevitably fall apart, which I feel like it might. At the end of the day, these are just minor nitpicks for me, and Hickman's direction for the story will probably only make sense at the end. I just hope it's worth it.

I'm sure Hickman did this because he cares more about the story in general than the personal relationships, but IMO it would have helped a lot if they showed how Krakoa was built. The idea seems to me that it was during Rosenberg's X-men and Age of X-men the mutants were completely broken down, which allowed them to easily leave everything behind and build a new society (and if I remember correctly they admitted that that was the idea behind killing a **** ton of people in UXM) to me that would have worked better if UXM would have ended not in the hopeful way it ended with everyone coming back from the pocket dimension, beating the sentinels and standing defiantly together but rather ending with everyone having to escape with no odds of survival and then Xavier appears to save them and take them to Krakoa.

And I would have really like to see how Scott went from what seemed to be cleaning house before ending his life to being truly happy for the first time

[Anthony Shaw]

As was previously discussed many times, this is completely false. Not only because Scott and Jean aren't older than most people on that team (and significantly younger than Logan), but Claremont NEVER had plans to retire the likes of Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, etc. The entire point of removing Scott from the table was so his pet character Storm could be the leader. The "having characters moving on" thing was just an excuse.

I always believed that, despite never having real proof.

Havok and Lorna were removed by Len Wein.

He retired Cyclops and Banshee, and not coincidentally they were the most experienced guys (who were not clearly not fit for leadership like Logan) that would be ahead of Storm for a leadership position. Again, he never showed an interest in do that to the characters he created or pretty much created, like Wolverine, Storm or Kitty.

It is very weird, but my favorite classic characters were the ones Claremont did not care for.

[TheDeadSpace]

It's a little late from the conversation a few days ago, but what if the lack of Scott/Emma is because of the Stark/Emma thing? The situation with Wolverine can always be handwaved with cheating, but Emma going with Stark after stuff with Scott would be harder to work with. I mean, that is if it's still going to even happen; then again, the Gala will probably clear everything up.

[Hizashi]

It's a little late from the conversation a few days ago, but what if the lack of Scott/Emma is because of the Stark/Emma thing? The situation with Wolverine can always be handwaved with cheating, but Emma going with Stark after stuff with Scott would be harder to work with. I mean, that is if it's still going to even happen; then again, the Gala will probably clear everything up.

I'm sorry, I'm out of the loop. What Stark/Emma thing? And Wolverine cheating?

[Gray Lensman]

I'm sorry, I'm out of the loop. What Stark/Emma thing? And Wolverine cheating?

The second one has to do with one of Sinister's secrets about the island. Some married woman is cheating, and is unaware that her husband knows, and doesn't overly mind, since he is doing the same thing. Speculation on the boards is 99% convinced that it is referring to Scott and Jean, and no alternate theory has been mentioned. I'm not even sure if there is a second married couple in the X books right now, except for Apocalypse and Genesis.

[Omega Alpha]

It's a little late from the conversation a few days ago, but what if the lack of Scott/Emma is because of the Stark/Emma thing? The situation with Wolverine can always be handwaved with cheating, but Emma going with Stark after stuff with Scott would be harder to work with. I mean, that is if it's still going to even happen; then again, the Gala will probably clear everything up.

Not really- the Stark/Emma thing I never believed it was going to be a real thing, because if they kept Tony single even when he was in a stable relationship with Pepper in the movies for 10 years, they're not going to have him marry now, and with a character controlled by the X-office who's in an open relationship with another X-men character. Specially considering he just started a relationship with Patsy Walker.

Hickman gave more or less the same attention to Jean/Logan than to Scott/Emma, is just that Percy is writing both Jean and Logan and he's the one focusing on it. Duggan is only writing Emma, so there's less room there.