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  1. #631
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    Sure I'm game. I didn't realize the topic was an issue? If it is I do apologize to everyone else. I rarely post as it is, mostly lurk and learn.

  2. #632
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    It just occurred to me that Iím talking more about Scott in Jeanís thread and about Jean in his. Itís the way the conversations developed, but still: what a mess. I do apologise.

    @Cyked: Maybe we continue this discussion in private?
    Not a problem for me here, as you two are taking about Jean as she relates to Scott rather than as an independent character (and from what I have seen, the same in regards to Scott in the Jean thread). I will chime in more, albeit briefly, after my overtime shift is done. I got stuck with two 12 hour shifts back to back, but am nearly done the first.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  3. #633
    Incredible Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyked View Post
    Sure I'm game. I didn't realize the topic was an issue? If it is I do apologize to everyone else. I rarely post as it is, mostly lurk and learn.
    It's not the topic in particular. It's just because we weren't focusing much on Scott and this is supposed to be his appreciation thread. And I hate being the one making a mess.

    EDIT: I replied your previous post in private. It should be in your inbox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Not a problem for me here, as you two are taking about Jean as she relates to Scott rather than as an independent character (and from what I have seen, the same in regards to Scott in the Jean thread). I will chime in more, albeit briefly, after my overtime shift is done. I got stuck with two 12 hour shifts back to back, but am nearly done the first.
    Sure, please do. I always appreciate your posts, even when we don't fully agree. I may reply to you in private as well, though, if I have a lot to say and it's not super related to our fearless leader. I don't mean it as a threat, though. :D

  4. #634
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyked View Post
    The first time they show Cyke and Emma having their "Therapy"(affair) is in New X-Men #131 October 15th 2002, Jean and Wolverine kiss in Morrison's run which you do mention in New X-Men #117 in October 2001. However I am also talking about Uncanny X-Men #394 which while not under Morrison's pen is still that rough time period in July 2001.

    This is one of those things that yes, I could go in and talk about things with them as people. I will say if my wife went through something horribly traumatizing (think about any real world equivalent to being bound with Apocalypse), I know 5 months of no touching I wouldn't jump to kissing another woman. I'd assume it was trauma and not a lack of interest in our marriage. Personally as a fan I could rebound from that and still enjoy the pairing. It was what felt like outside interference that made it into cannon that killed it for me. It felt more like who's character was "winning" then a real story. Jean's sudden kissing Wolverine as a married woman twice around the same time the films came out (mind you I'm only counting since they were married.)

    I'm not trying to slam or blame Jean, to me the whole pairing became not fun anymore due to this, and all the AU books where the two (Jean and Wolverine were together (What if AvX anyone?).
    For a while it did seem like the writers were playing a game of chicken with each other, attempting to one-up each other bring Jean and Logan closer and closer to having an affair - then Morrison took over, actually did it, and the boards forgot everything leading up to it.

    The AU stuff where Jean and Logan end up together and/or a villainous Cyclops makes me think of Claremont and his childish vendetta. He had a run in Exiles, plus his previous work on Excalibur's Cross Time Caper run.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  5. #635
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  6. #636
    Incredible Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    For a while it did seem like the writers were playing a game of chicken with each other, attempting to one-up each other bring Jean and Logan closer and closer to having an affair - then Morrison took over, actually did it, and the boards forgot everything leading up to it.

    The AU stuff where Jean and Logan end up together and/or a villainous Cyclops makes me think of Claremont and his childish vendetta. He had a run in Exiles, plus his previous work on Excalibur's Cross Time Caper run.
    I wrote about the 4 instances in which I could remember (thanks @Cyked for reminding me of one of them) that Logan and Jean kissed, in the pre-Krakoan 616 continuity. I thought that, after I defended Scott exhaustively on her thread, explaining the abusive nature of the affair and psychological state he was in (also when it came to Madelyne), it would be fair do the same for Jean here before her haters would come and trash her.

    But then I reminded myself of somethingÖ This is pointless. *sigh* And itís the wrong thread anyway.

  7. #637
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Is this a Heroes Reborn thing? Why do the beams look that way?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  8. #638
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I wrote about the 4 instances in which I could remember (thanks @Cyked for reminding me of one of them) that Logan and Jean kissed, in the pre-Krakoan 616 continuity. I thought that, after I defended Scott exhaustively on her thread, explaining the abusive nature of the affair and psychological state he was in (also when it came to Madelyne), it would be fair do the same for Jean here before her haters would come and trash her.

    But then I reminded myself of something… This is pointless. *sigh* And it’s the wrong thread anyway.
    Yeah, I saw that. It's understandably difficult to discuss those topics sometimes because some of us Scott or Jean fans might be more invested one way or another. I'm pretty comfortable asserting that no Cyclops fan thinks he's blameless for these things, but it's complicated to say the least.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #639
    Mighty Member Kal-El Summers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    It just occurred to me that I’m talking more about Scott in Jean’s thread and about Jean in his. It’s the way the conversations developed, but still: what a mess. I do apologise.

    @Cyked: Maybe we continue this discussion in private?
    Can only speak for myself, but I'm very much enjoying your posts here. It's nice having fans of other characters come in and have actual good discussions instead of a lot of the trolls that'd stroll through back before the board reset.

  10. #640
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    We had a really good talk in private. We agreed on 95% (I may not have been great at expressing myself on here). I think I'm just a pessamist.

  11. #641
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal-El Summers View Post
    Can only speak for myself, but I'm very much enjoying your posts here. It's nice having fans of other characters come in and have actual good discussions instead of a lot of the trolls that'd stroll through back before the board reset.
    I agree, it's nice to see activity on here again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyked View Post
    We had a really good talk in private. We agreed on 95% (I may not have been great at expressing myself on here). I think I'm just a pessamist.
    Same bro,
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  12. #642
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I wrote about the 4 instances in which I could remember (thanks @Cyked for reminding me of one of them) that Logan and Jean kissed, in the pre-Krakoan 616 continuity. I thought that, after I defended Scott exhaustively on her thread, explaining the abusive nature of the affair and psychological state he was in (also when it came to Madelyne), it would be fair do the same for Jean here before her haters would come and trash her.

    But then I reminded myself of something… This is pointless. *sigh* And it’s the wrong thread anyway.
    My only problem with the Scott and Jean relationship being restarted is what seems to be happening in X-Force - which is exactly what I feared. Return of the Insipid Love Triangle - that book doesn't appear to be playing the polyamory angle but rather something else that needs to be strangled, burned to ashes, burn the ashes, then salt the earth where you bury it so nothing grows from it again.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    My only problem with the Scott and Jean relationship being restarted is what seems to be happening in X-Force - which is exactly what I feared. Return of the Insipid Love Triangle - that book doesn't appear to be playing the polyamory angle but rather something else that needs to be strangled, burned to ashes, burn the ashes, then salt the earth where you bury it so nothing grows from it again.
    I feel this quite viscerally.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  14. #644
    Mighty Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Do any of you folks happen to know of any blog posts that highlights Scott's depression and inferiority compleX? Asking for a friend.

  15. #645
    Incredible Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Itís not about the characters only. Itís about the world in general. Have you heard of the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator? I'm an INTj (the archetype of the architect/mastermind) which is a rare personality and even rarer for females. Itís also the one I believe Scott would likely have, by the way.

    Hereís the thing. Itís not that I donít have emotional reactions. I do. Sometimes theyíre really strong. But, eventually, when things calm down (and it may take years) I look at things rationally. I go for the facts and extrapolate from them.

    But most people stay trapped on that first initial emotional reaction, form their opinions and are never really interested in challenging them. And some react in a hostile way if they feel something or someone is doing it.

    As an INTj, Iím very comfortable with retreating to my mind palace and not dealing with people at all. I just feel itís a shame because we could all benefit so much from sharing.

    The point is - and I know this will sound cold - Iím not really interested in the immature emotions of other people. I have my own to sort through. And I donít have a social need to interact with people, actually. So, at some point, you ask yourself: ďwhy am I wasting my time with this again?Ē And the answer is: ďyeah, you shouldnít. Move onĒ.

    Now... I donít expect people to have the same level of interest or investment in the couple. Iím totally okay with people having different preferences and tastes. What bothers me is when people spill their opinions as facts. Because other people pick it up and repeats it and, at some point, it becomes the truth.

    An example:

    --
    https://www.cbr.com/marvel-reasons-j...ible-together/

    7 - Not The Best Couple: Cyclops's Lack Of Options

    Cyclops and Jean met when they were very young and became an item in a very dangerous environment. They were basically child soldiers in Professor X's war against evil mutants and the negative publicity those evil mutants garnered the mutant race.

    While Jean had four people to choose from (well, three, because Iceman was gay; although since he was closeted, he probably would have gone out with her), Cyclops just had her. She was pretty much his entire romantic world for most of his life and circumstances like that don't always build the strongest relationships.

    --

    My mind immediately goes: lack of options...? If that was true for Scott, it should have been true for Bobby, Hank and Warren, right? But all of them got over their crush for Jean (Warren not so much) and they had girlfriends, who weren't Jean, back in the O5 day. So how is this "reason" based on facts?

    You know what I mean? It's tiring.

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