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  1. #646
    Fantastic Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    Do any of you folks happen to know of any blog posts that highlights Scott's depression and inferiority compleX? Asking for a friend.
    I don't know of any. But I'd be happy to help creating a list or something.

  2. #647
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    It’s not about the characters only. It’s about the world in general. Have you heard of the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator? I'm an INTj (the archetype of the architect/mastermind) which is a rare personality and even rarer for females. It’s also the one I believe Scott would likely have, by the way.

    Here’s the thing. It’s not that I don’t have emotional reactions. I do. Sometimes they’re really strong. But, eventually, when things calm down (and it may take years) I look at things rationally. I go for the facts and extrapolate from them.

    But most people stay trapped on that first initial emotional reaction, form their opinions and are never really interested in challenging them. And some react in a hostile way if they feel something or someone is doing it.

    As an INTj, I’m very comfortable with retreating to my mind palace and not dealing with people at all. I just feel it’s a shame because we could all benefit so much from sharing.

    The point is - and I know this will sound cold - I’m not really interested in the immature emotions of other people. I have my own to sort through. And I don’t have a social need to interact with people, actually. So, at some point, you ask yourself: “why am I wasting my time with this again?” And the answer is: “yeah, you shouldn’t. Move on”.

    Now... I don’t expect people to have the same level of interest or investment in the couple. I’m totally okay with people having different preferences and tastes. What bothers me is when people spill their opinions as facts. Because other people pick it up and repeats it and, at some point, it becomes the truth.

    An example:

    --
    https://www.cbr.com/marvel-reasons-j...ible-together/

    7 - Not The Best Couple: Cyclops's Lack Of Options

    Cyclops and Jean met when they were very young and became an item in a very dangerous environment. They were basically child soldiers in Professor X's war against evil mutants and the negative publicity those evil mutants garnered the mutant race.

    While Jean had four people to choose from (well, three, because Iceman was gay; although since he was closeted, he probably would have gone out with her), Cyclops just had her. She was pretty much his entire romantic world for most of his life and circumstances like that don't always build the strongest relationships.

    --

    My mind immediately goes: lack of options...? If that was true for Scott, it should have been true for Bobby, Hank and Warren, right? But all of them got over their crush for Jean (Warren not so much) and they had girlfriends, who weren't Jean, back in the O5 day. So how is this "reason" based on facts?

    You know what I mean? It's tiring.
    One thing to keep in mind about CBRs Cyclops articles - almost all them are hit pieces and are best read by nobody.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  3. #648
    Fantastic Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    One thing to keep in mind about CBRs Cyclops articles - almost all them are hit pieces and are best read by nobody.
    I know, but people read it and repeat it and it forms this echo chamber that can, sometimes, actually impact on comics themselves.

    Both Jean and Scott suffer so much from it.

    In Scott's case it's like: "oh, he's boring". "Cyclops is so boring", etc... It's hammered so much on the fans' heads as well, that they start to actually like when he's portrayed as "edgy". Ugh... I like my Cyke to be "boring". For me, he was never boring. Leave him alone. Character development is one thing but I have zero interest in those remakes of films and cartoons that "re-invent" that character. Or when a writer thinks they're smart enough to bring a different "take" on the character. I don't love him because of his optic blasts and the position of a leader (though I certainly think they're super cool). I love him because of the person he is supposed to be.

    As for Jean... Teen Jean. Do I need to say more?
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 05-07-2021 at 10:37 PM.

  4. #649
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Scott is definitely one of the few characters to have an echo chamber involving his mistakes/flaws in almost any forum or comment section available. It's quite bizarre. If anything, that tends to bleed into the love triangle, which seems to have been fed by the films and fans themselves. It didn't seem to be a big thing in the comics before the 2000's. Most of it was from Claremont, anyways. Funny how it has now evolved, unfortunately.

    That being said, any ideas on how Scott spends his free time in this era? We listed certain things he might like, but what might he actually do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyked View Post
    Sure I'm game. I didn't realize the topic was an issue? If it is I do apologize to everyone else. I rarely post as it is, mostly lurk and learn.
    I wouldn't worry about it. Differing and new opinions are always a good thing. As long as it is somehow tied to Scott and the conversation bears no hate I think it should be fine.
    Last edited by TheDeadSpace; 05-08-2021 at 05:29 AM.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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    “Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
    -Geralt of Rivia

  5. #650
    Satanic Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    That being said, any ideas on how Scott spends his free time in this era? We listed certain things he might like, but what might he actually do?
    He invites his fellow citizens to play pool with him

  6. #651
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I know, but people read it and repeat it and it forms this echo chamber that can, sometimes, actually impact on comics themselves.

    Both Jean and Scott suffer so much from it.

    In Scott's case it's like: "oh, he's boring". "Cyclops is so boring", etc... It's hammered so much on the fans' heads as well, that they start to actually like when he's portrayed as "edgy". Ugh... I like my Cyke to be "boring". For me, he was never boring. Leave him alone. Character development is one thing but I have zero interest in those remakes of films and cartoons that "re-invent" that character. Or when a writer thinks they're smart enough to bring a different "take" on the character. I don't love him because of his optic blasts and the position of a leader (though I certainly think they're super cool). I love him because of the person he is supposed to be.

    As for Jean... Teen Jean. Do I need to say more?
    Yeah, I've never thought Scott was boring, I gravitate towards role model and leader characters. What I identify with most is Scott's sense of responsibility, I've lived my entire life since childhood taking care of my family and it's both a burden in its way and a rewarding experience. I wouldn't change it for the world, and I don't think Scott would either.

    As for Scott's rougher time the last 20 years, that worked for me because of the context - it seemed like a plausible extension. That being said, I think a classic approach would've worked just as well.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  7. #652
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Scott is definitely one of the few characters to have an echo chamber involving his mistakes/flaws in almost any forum or comment section available. It's quite bizarre. If anything, that tends to bleed into the love triangle, which seems to have been fed by the films and fans themselves. It didn't seem to be a big thing in the comics before the 2000's. Most of it was from Claremont, anyways. Funny how it has now evolved, unfortunately.

    That being said, any ideas on how Scott spends his free time in this era? We listed certain things he might like, but what might he actually do?
    I imagine he does read quite a lot. I wonder what books are his favorite? Frankenstein? Paradise Lost? Lord of the Flies? Maybe he also has a hobby like woodworking or restoring cars?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    I wouldn't worry about it. Differing and new opinions are always a good thing. As long as it is somehow tied to Scott and the conversation bears no hate I think it should be fine.
    Yeah, I agree, new opinions can give us new ideas as well.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  8. #653
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    He invites his fellow citizens to play pool with him
    No one ever seems to take him up on the offer, I wonder why?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #654
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    He invites his fellow citizens to play pool with him
    Even with bringing mutants back from the dead Scott's gotta run out of suckers sometime. Does he have a pool nickname, I wonder? My money in a on a dad joke name, like The Orca, since...∆drum roll please∆ they eat sharks.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  10. #655
    Fantastic Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Scott is definitely one of the few characters to have an echo chamber involving his mistakes/flaws in almost any forum or comment section available. It's quite bizarre. If anything, that tends to bleed into the love triangle, which seems to have been fed by the films and fans themselves. It didn't seem to be a big thing in the comics before the 2000's. Most of it was from Claremont, anyways. Funny how it has now evolved, unfortunately.
    Even the love triangle wasn't that much of a big deal in the 616 continuity... Don't get me wrong: I effing hate it. But it's another thing that comes more from the emotional reaction of different medias and alternate universes than actual facts. It's really the echo chamber at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, I've never thought Scott was boring, I gravitate towards role model and leader characters. What I identify with most is Scott's sense of responsibility, I've lived my entire life since childhood taking care of my family and it's both a burden in its way and a rewarding experience. I wouldn't change it for the world, and I don't think Scott would either.

    As for Scott's rougher time the last 20 years, that worked for me because of the context - it seemed like a plausible extension. That being said, I think a classic approach would've worked just as well.
    I relate to the responsibility too. Big time. But it's just one of the things that I adore about the character and people think is boring.

    I liked the rougher time too. I just wished they'd done more with it. I love me some Daredevil, so I'm very comfortable with my heroes sinking low and being redeemed. Not in a villainous way, mind you, but just because they're under a lot of pressure and they're human and they make terrible mistakes.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    That being said, any ideas on how Scott spends his free time in this era? We listed certain things he might like, but what might he actually do?
    I imagine Scott to be one of those people who is always doing something. When he's not busy with work, he's swimming, running, sailing, flying an airplane, driving, building stuff or fixing stuff (this one is even canon). I don't think he's an agitated person, but he's one of those people that just have to be doing something.

    The only time I can imagine he's sitting down is when he's reading (which I think he does often), when he's deep in his thoughts or listening to music he enjoys. And, of course, when he's hanging out with his friends/family. There used to be some scenes with the X-Men going out to have dinner or the "Danger Pub" or even the "Coffee a Go Go", that he seemed to be enjoying himself, even if he felt awkward for social reasons. There were quite some scenes of him dancing with Jean and Madelyne too (which is why I mentioned I think he likes old romantic songs).

    I also think he absolutely loved driving upstate to visit Jean's parents, who loved him like a son. I imagine them stopping somewhere pretty, sitting on the hood of the car, and listening to the radio while watching the sunset set. You know, those simple things in life what become special because of the shared experience? I think he really loves that.

    Not sure how much of that he can do in Krakoa nowdays...

    Edit: I forgot to mention, but since he's not very good expressing feelings, I think he expresses love and affection with actions. Those are not necessarily hobbies, but they take quite some time. For instance, I think he's always trying to improve stuff for the people he loves, anticipating what they need, getting the food they like, remembering little things they mentioned they wanted and getting it for their birthdays. And yeah: big on home improvement.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 05-08-2021 at 09:18 AM.

  11. #656

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Scott is definitely one of the few characters to have an echo chamber involving his mistakes/flaws in almost any forum or comment section available. It's quite bizarre. If anything, that tends to bleed into the love triangle, which seems to have been fed by the films and fans themselves. It didn't seem to be a big thing in the comics before the 2000's. Most of it was from Claremont, anyways. Funny how it has now evolved, unfortunately.
    It really, really isn't. Scott regularly hooks up and doesn't have to resort to... huh... problematic tactics. Of course he's the villain, lol. Leaving it at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    That being said, any ideas on how Scott spends his free time in this era? We listed certain things he might like, but what might he actually do?
    I like to think he has to waste a solid hour responding to the daily e-mails of the Marauders/Excalibur/X-Force supporting casts and explaining to them he's not managing the teams anymore, has no idea who they're supposed to complain to and quite frankly doesn't care.

  12. #657
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    It really, really isn't. Scott regularly hooks up and doesn't have to resort to... huh... problematic tactics. Of course he's the villain, lol. Leaving it at that.



    I like to think he has to waste a solid hour responding to the daily e-mails of the Marauders/Excalibur/X-Force supporting casts and explaining to them he's not managing the teams anymore, has no idea who they're supposed to complain to and quite frankly doesn't care.
    I love these ideas so much, they're canon for me now.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  13. #658
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Scott is definitely one of the few characters to have an echo chamber involving his mistakes/flaws in almost any forum or comment section available. It's quite bizarre. If anything, that tends to bleed into the love triangle, which seems to have been fed by the films and fans themselves. It didn't seem to be a big thing in the comics before the 2000's. Most of it was from Claremont, anyways. Funny how it has now evolved, unfortunately.

    That being said, any ideas on how Scott spends his free time in this era? We listed certain things he might like, but what might he actually do?



    I wouldn't worry about it. Differing and new opinions are always a good thing. As long as it is somehow tied to Scott and the conversation bears no hate I think it should be fine.
    What Cyclops needs is a writer who showcases his qualities, to show his tactical side, his fighting prowess, etc. They say he is a great leader and tactical mind, but they only show him standing back and barking orders, while everyone does what they want. Cyclops is the first to enter the Danger Room and the last to leave, he is the one to study how a fight went down, how they won or lost. He should be like Nathan in Leverage, Danny Ocean, Hannibal from The A-Team or, even Batman.

    About what he likes to do, for some reason I believe he would be a great fan of Bobby Dylan, Blood on the Tracks is his favorite album of all times. He also likes to read a lot, mostly detective stories, in the Agatha Christie vein and historical fiction.

  14. #659
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Even the love triangle wasn't that much of a big deal in the 616 continuity... Don't get me wrong: I effing hate it. But it's another thing that comes more from the emotional reaction of different medias and alternate universes than actual facts. It's really the echo chamber at work.
    It makes me sad to think that thanks to this status quo the triangle, no matter where it goes from here, will have this to point back to in arguments for it. It's like retroactive justification. If Scott and Jean are given proper focus, this will still have happened, unless they actually retcon it away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I relate to the responsibility too. Big time. But it's just one of the things that I adore about the character and people think is boring.

    I liked the rougher time too. I just wished they'd done more with it. I love me some Daredevil, so I'm very comfortable with my heroes sinking low and being redeemed. Not in a villainous way, mind you, but just because they're under a lot of pressure and they're human and they make terrible mistakes.
    Yeah, it's certainly not the only thing I love about Scott. And I'm in full agreement, Scott should've had his own "Born Again" style storyline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I imagine Scott to be one of those people who is always doing something. When he's not busy with work, he's swimming, running, sailing, flying an airplane, driving, building stuff or fixing stuff (this one is even canon). I don't think he's an agitated person, but he's one of those people that just have to be doing something.

    The only time I can imagine he's sitting down is when he's reading (which I think he does often), when he's deep in his thoughts or listening to music he enjoys. And, of course, when he's hanging out with his friends/family. There used to be some scenes with the X-Men going out to have dinner or the "Danger Pub" or even the "Coffee a Go Go", that he seemed to be enjoying himself, even if he felt awkward for social reasons. There were quite some scenes of him dancing with Jean and Madelyne too (which is why I mentioned I think he likes old romantic songs).

    I also think he absolutely loved driving upstate to visit Jean's parents, who loved him like a son. I imagine them stopping somewhere pretty, sitting on the hood of the car, and listening to the radio while watching the sunset set. You know, those simple things in life what become special because of the shared experience? I think he really loves that.

    Not sure how much of that he can do in Krakoa nowdays...

    Edit: I forgot to mention, but since he's not very good expressing feelings, I think he expresses love and affection with actions. Those are not necessarily hobbies, but they take quite some time. For instance, I think he's always trying to improve stuff for the people he loves, anticipating what they need, getting the food they like, remembering little things they mentioned they wanted and getting it for their birthdays. And yeah: big on home improvement.
    I love this. He probably enjoys fishing also. And definitely a handy man.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  15. #660
    Fantastic Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    It makes me sad to think that thanks to this status quo the triangle, no matter where it goes from here, will have this to point back to in arguments for it. It's like retroactive justification. If Scott and Jean are given proper focus, this will still have happened, unless they actually retcon it away.
    I don't believe it needs to be retconned. I wouldn't like if it was, actually.

    There is a scene in which Scott tells Jean he understands why she feels the way she feels for Logan. It's beautiful. We can see it's not easy for him, but he knows it's not her fault. He accepts that part of her better than she does herself, because he understands that she is not perfect (one of the many reasons why they're such a good couple). I mean, they shared a psychic rapport. He knew how much she truly loved him.

    I think the psychic affair is a worse case to make fans less upset about. You see, there are two double standards there: society downplays abuse when the victim is male and they exalt betrayal when the perpetrator is a married man (which makes the whole thing appear more vulgar and sordid than it was)... It has it's own echo chamber too that is even harder break apart.

    But, you know, it's not impossible. It just takes someone willing to approach the matter with sensibility and without playing favourites.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, it's certainly not the only thing I love about Scott. And I'm in full agreement, Scott should've had his own "Born Again" style storyline.
    After Schism, I hoped we may be going in this direction. Not because of the fight itself, but what triggered it: the way he left the decision on the shoulders of a young mutant who he knew was troubled ("You do what you feel you have to.")

    Sure, he takes the responsibility for her actions later. But I thought it was really problematic and out of character, even. But in a way that served the bigger narrative and the ongoing process of the mounting pressure of being the leader, you know? I thought it showed that he was really going too far.

    But no... the writers just excused him. Not even the fact that half of the mutants were leaving (again, not judging the fight or the justification itself) knocked some sense on him. He never questioned if their leaving meant he was failing them. He just kept on focusing on keeping everyone safe.

    Then, out of the blue, the writers go full-blame-it-on him with AvX. But he doesn't seem to regret that either. And then the O5 are brought to make him wake up... But all we get a silly revolution that meant nothing.

    Such a waste of those many years of story... If done well, it could have been so cool and memorable. And such a reward for the readers, for all those years building up to it, so he could emerge a better hero and leader in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I love this. He probably enjoys fishing also. And definitely a handy man.
    Yes, fishing! Totally! I'd bet Chris and Philip took the boys to fish! Maybe Deborah and Katherine even joined too. It would be even more special to him because those were memories of his childhood with his family. :)

    Anyway, I'm sure there are more things I forgot. But I imagine he likes to do stuff along those lines.

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