Scott Summers aka Cyclops Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

This is an excellent post. Certainly better than the usual complaints in the JG thread which are often nothing more than "waaaargarrrrble Cyclops!" Character development of a small cast isn't a zero sum game, the writers should be able to handle more than one person over several issues.

They certainly should. Previous writers did. It isn't an impossible feat.

But yeah... both Scott and Jean suffer from their own fans' passionate - but myopic - love; and the fans of the franchise who just don't like them because they are such central characters in the X-Men mythos.

If they're portrayed as perfect, people complain they're boring. If they're portrayed as flawed, people judge them as if they were the worst people around.

Personally, I prefer to look at them as if they were real people. First reactions, for instance, are often not representative of their heroic natures. It's just their human natures reacting before they have time to fully contemplate the issue.

After all, it's not feelings or words that make a character a hero. It's their actions when the actions matter the most.

So... Did Scott react in a selfish way when it came to kid Cable?

Yes. But it's not because he's a selfish person. It's because he loves his son and their life as a family. He's willing to deal with any possible repercussions as long as they're together. And it's totally in character for him to feel this way.

Look at how he reacted when Jean became Dark Phoenix. Even as he's wondering if the restraints Charles put in her mind (with her help) would hold, he is certain that it didn't matter. He tells himself he'd love her just the same if she became Dark Phoenix again and then he proceeds to think of wedding vows, which she picks up as she's recovering from the telepathic intervention. And you think he'd be fazed by that? Not at all. He actually proposes.

When that man loves, he loves deeply and unconditionally. Imagine what he wouldn't do for his son.

We tend to forget how emotional Scott really is, because he usually protects himself with seemingly infinite layers of cold logic and aloofness. But, as they say, still waters run deep...

[Glio]

Of course Scott wants Kid Cable to stay with them and be able to be a family and he doesn't want him to suffer endless wars in the future. It is a natural feeling for a father to want the best for his son.

[TheDeadSpace]

They certainly should. Previous writers did. It isn't an impossible feat.

But yeah... both Scott and Jean suffer from their own fans' passionate - but myopic - love; and the fans of the franchise who just don't like them because they are such central characters in the X-Men mythos.

If they're portrayed as perfect, people complain they're boring. If they're portrayed as flawed, people judge them as if they were the worst people around.

Personally, I prefer to look at them as if they were real people. First reactions, for instance, are often not representative of their heroic natures. It's just their human natures reacting before they have time to fully contemplate the issue.

After all, it's not feelings or words that make a character a hero. It's their actions when the actions matter the most.

So... Did Scott react in a selfish way when it came to kid Cable?

Yes. But it's not because he's a selfish person. It's because he loves his son and their life as a family. He's willing to deal with any possible repercussions as long as they're together. And it's totally in character for him to feel this way.

Look at how he reacted when Jean became Dark Phoenix. Even as he's wondering if the restraints Charles put in her mind (with her help) would hold, he is certain that it didn't matter. He tells himself he'd love her just the same if she became Dark Phoenix again and then he proceeds to think of wedding vows, which she picks up as she's recovering from the telepathic intervention. And you think he'd be fazed by that? Not at all. He actually proposes.

When that man loves, he loves deeply and unconditionally. Imagine what he wouldn't do for his son.

We tend to forget how emotional Scott really is, because he usually protects himself with seemingly infinite layers of cold logic and aloofness. But, as they say, still waters run deep...

This was a great post and breakdown. This perfectly articulates why Scott would want his son to stay despite the consequences while also making me consider a part of Scott I didn't really think about from that perspective. Great all around.

[Odd Rödney]

They certainly should. Previous writers did. It isn't an impossible feat.

But yeah... both Scott and Jean suffer from their own fans' passionate - but myopic - love; and the fans of the franchise who just don't like them because they are such central characters in the X-Men mythos.

If they're portrayed as perfect, people complain they're boring. If they're portrayed as flawed, people judge them as if they were the worst people around.

Personally, I prefer to look at them as if they were real people. First reactions, for instance, are often not representative of their heroic natures. It's just their human natures reacting before they have time to fully contemplate the issue.

After all, it's not feelings or words that make a character a hero. It's their actions when the actions matter the most.

So... Did Scott react in a selfish way when it came to kid Cable?

Yes. But it's not because he's a selfish person. It's because he loves his son and their life as a family. He's willing to deal with any possible repercussions as long as they're together. And it's totally in character for him to feel this way.

Look at how he reacted when Jean became Dark Phoenix. Even as he's wondering if the restraints Charles put in her mind (with her help) would hold, he is certain that it didn't matter. He tells himself he'd love her just the same if she became Dark Phoenix again and then he proceeds to think of wedding vows, which she picks up as she's recovering from the telepathic intervention. And you think he'd be fazed by that? Not at all. He actually proposes.

When that man loves, he loves deeply and unconditionally. Imagine what he wouldn't do for his son.

We tend to forget how emotional Scott really is, because he usually protects himself with seemingly infinite layers of cold logic and aloofness. But, as they say, still waters run deep...

This is a great post. you have explained Cyclops well here and I applaud you for that.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

And there was never an in-story reason for it to have changed. Yet, after Louise, Jean's motherhood is just put on the background. When Scott sends Nathan to the future, it's his decision, his pain. Jean even celebrates defeating Apocalypse! That's how much she is robbed of her motherhood.

I'd lying if I said this wasn't one of my favorite Jott moments ever.

And I mean, especially in this weirdly different society, you don't need to put Jean in the role of a mother, right? But if you're going to do so, can we maybe see her being a mother in more than cooking dinner? Honestly, I can't imagine a female writer ignoring that if they had to write Jean in this role...

Blame Percy's Jean/Logan fanfic and the X-Office not really knowing what to do with Jean prior to XoS and the upcoming X-Men relaunch. Apparently, chasing a "I-can-be-a-bad-girl-too-I'm-not-Good!Lawful-dangit" power fantasy and hanging out at basically every Krakoan party is the best they could come up with.

For whatever reason, nobody reflected on the fact that it retroactively/currently established Emma as the cool stepmom, lol. Or maybe that was the plan along. Mmmm. Oh well.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

I apologize in advance for this huge post.

No need for the apology. Your posts have been S+ Tier.

[AJpyro]

Really good post not just about Jott but about Scott and love

Great post. I do feel like I forget things like that due to...well contradictionary pages.

Again though, I don't feel connection to wifi due to how he came about and I still feel odd at how non chalant Scott was when he learned Wifi killed Cable.

But Scott not wanting Nathan to become Cable? Or to have an even better childhood than what happened in Xfactor? Yeah.

[Hizashi]

True, that's definitely how it seems at times.

As for the second part, no idea. It's odd that Cable wouldn't want to talk to Jean and would rather be more comfortable with Emma considering the annual issue. I guess he got over his hate, lol.

At the same time, Jean's main writer up to this point has been Percy, and he doesn't seem interested in exploring Jean's family at the moment.

As for Scott in general, the dad stuff is definitely something I've been hoping to see. It's nice to have but a little disappointing considering the direction it might go.

I'm a sucker for father-son and sibling stories, yet another reason for me to love Scott.

[Hizashi]

Thats not a thing. She is cool with Rachel

I thought there was a specific instance and wanted to know.

[Hizashi]

I apologise in advance for this huge post.

I'm a huge fan of both characters (Scott and Jean) and I'm often disappointed in how the writers approach Jean's motherhood. In particular, when it comes to Nathan.

This is how I see it: if you're going to write an aspect of a character, you check the first instance in which this aspect appears and see how it was set. And then you keep reading and check if there was ever an in-story reason for this aspect to have changed. For Jean's motherhood, the first instance Louise Simonson's X-Factor run.

Jean comes from a loving family and from the moment Scott shows her a picture of Madelyne and Chris (= Nathan) we get to know for sure she would have liked to be a mother, because she tells him, on panel, that she'd always thought they would have a daughter together.

Later, when they go to the orphanage in Nebraska, this dialogue happens:

- Scott: My son's in here. It's been so long. He's just a baby. How will I find him? How will I know that he's mine?
- Jean: I'll know. He's what I'm feeling, Scott. He's not calling out... not projecting. Just being. But I still feel him. There are dozens of babies in here. Why can I feel just him? Here he is. I sense... Oh... He's adorable.

She barely has any telepathic power at that point, mind you. And Inferno hasn't happened yet, so it's not like it's Madelyine's memories are affecting her behaviour either. Yet she feels an immediate bond with the baby.

Now, like I said on the other post, Scott isn't really Nathan's father at that point. He's his genetic donor, as much as Jean. They become Nathan's parents there, together. And, after Inferno, they raise that baby together. I don't want to deny Madelyne's motherhood, but Jean is also Nathan's mother.

And there was never an in-story reason for it to have changed. Yet, after Louise, Jean's motherhood is just put on the background. When Scott sends Nathan to the future, it's his decision, his pain. Jean even celebrates defeating Apocalypse! That's how much she is robbed of her motherhood.

The x-writers tend to give much more importance to Scott's fatherhood than her motherhood and it really bothers me. I don't want them to downplay Scott's fatherhood at all ('cause I love it). I just wish they remembered that Jean is Nathan's mother too.

But apart from that X-Factor run - while Simonson was still writing - and, to an extent, The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, they just ignore that aspect of the character.

And I mean, especially in this weirdly different society, you don't need to put Jean in the role of a mother, right? But if you're going to do so, can we maybe see her being a mother in more than cooking dinner? Honestly, I can't imagine a female writer ignoring that if they had to write Jean in this role...

So, that's why - from the perspective of the writers - I don't really see the fact that she's not very present as a problem. X-writers in general don't give her proper interactions with her children. It's like they're saying: "hey, she's seen cooking dinner 3 times already. What else do you need? She's being a mother, okay?"

Thanks, that was a great post, and I'd also appreciate seeing Jean get more opportunities to be a mom. This also illustrates why I think continuity is so important, these characteristics shouldn't be ignored.

[Hizashi]

They certainly should. Previous writers did. It isn't an impossible feat.

But yeah... both Scott and Jean suffer from their own fans' passionate - but myopic - love; and the fans of the franchise who just don't like them because they are such central characters in the X-Men mythos.

If they're portrayed as perfect, people complain they're boring. If they're portrayed as flawed, people judge them as if they were the worst people around.

Personally, I prefer to look at them as if they were real people. First reactions, for instance, are often not representative of their heroic natures. It's just their human natures reacting before they have time to fully contemplate the issue.

After all, it's not feelings or words that make a character a hero. It's their actions when the actions matter the most.

So... Did Scott react in a selfish way when it came to kid Cable?

Yes. But it's not because he's a selfish person. It's because he loves his son and their life as a family. He's willing to deal with any possible repercussions as long as they're together. And it's totally in character for him to feel this way.

Look at how he reacted when Jean became Dark Phoenix. Even as he's wondering if the restraints Charles put in her mind (with her help) would hold, he is certain that it didn't matter. He tells himself he'd love her just the same if she became Dark Phoenix again and then he proceeds to think of wedding vows, which she picks up as she's recovering from the telepathic intervention. And you think he'd be fazed by that? Not at all. He actually proposes.

When that man loves, he loves deeply and unconditionally. Imagine what he wouldn't do for his son.

We tend to forget how emotional Scott really is, because he usually protects himself with seemingly infinite layers of cold logic and aloofness. But, as they say, still waters run deep...

That's the kind of stuff I want to see with these characters, not the nonsense in the current books. Scott, and Jean, are more than their detractors see.

[Grinning Soul]

Thanks a lot, guys, for being so kind. You see, it's Jean in my avatar pic, but there's a red filter all over it for a reason.

Blame Percy's Jean/Logan fanfic and the X-Office not really knowing what to do with Jean prior to XoS and the upcoming X-Men relaunch. Apparently, chasing a "I-can-be-a-bad-girl-too-I'm-not-Good!Lawful-dangit" power fantasy and hanging out at basically every Krakoan party is the best they could come up with.

Is it Percy's fault, though, or is he just actually having the guts to portray this weird open-marriage thing while the other writers (like Hickman and Dugann) are just hinting at it?

Again though, I don't feel connection to wifi due to how he came about and I still feel odd at how non chalant Scott was when he learned Wifi killed Cable.

I don't particularly like kid Cable either. For me, he just feels off. I can't imagine the Nathan we saw in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (and who killed his older self) would become that relatively well-adjusted teen, full of swagger, who is shown dating 7 girls in his 10-issue solo book... But that might be just me.

Thanks, that was a great post, and I'd also appreciate seeing Jean get more opportunities to be a mom. This also illustrates why I think continuity is so important, these characteristics shouldn't be ignored.

That's the kind of stuff I want to see with these characters, not the nonsense in the current books. Scott, and Jean, are more than their detractors see.

Yes, they are much more than their detractors, especially because the detractors don't even seem to have actually read the books. But then again, I could point out several instances in which the writers/editors don't seem to have read the books either.

I'm super old-school: I tend to prefer established characters. I don't see the "baggage" of continuity as a bad thing. I love it. I see it as an opportunity for character growth, redemption arcs, heroic moments of overcoming personal issues...

I don't want my heroes to be perfect (I want them to be flawed, actually). But I consume stories with heroes because I want to feel inspired by them. Isn't that the whole point of this kind of story?

You know what? I'll let Stan explain, because he was so much more eloquent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYNZ9CZ6U6o

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Is it Percy's fault, though, or is he just actually having the guts to portray this weird open-marriage thing while the other writers (like Hickman and Dugann) are just hinting at it?

Of course it's his fault. Not only are Scott and Emma not throwing shade at the other half of the Rectangle and putting up with Jean's painfully obvious issues with them being seen together in public, but they're also managing to juggle their professional, personal and parental duties. Meanwhile, Percy's Logan and Jean are playing badasses, throwing shade at Scott and mostly ignoring their kids.

It's awesome.

[Grinning Soul]

Of course it's his fault. Not only are Scott and Emma not throwing shade at the other half of the Rectangle and putting up with Jean's painfully obvious issues with them being seen together in public, but they're also managing to juggle their professional, personal and parental duties. Meanwhile, Percy's Logan and Jean are playing badasses, throwing shade at Scott and mostly ignoring their kids.

It's awesome.

Maybe I should have explained better what I meant (sorry, I'm not a native speaker). Let me try again.

We still don't really know what's the actual arrangement between those characters, right? So maybe the x-office decided to use Scott and Jean's marriage as an allegory for the idea that Krakoa is a paradise and mutants aren't ashamed and they have upgraded morality. So, sexuality is supposed to reflect that as well.

Therefore, their relationship - whatever it is - supposed to be something that everyone in Krakoa knows about and no one cares, because it's a weird place and they're all very comfortable with it.

Now, if that's what's the x-office really agreed to do, it's not Percy's fault that he's actually portraying it, right?

There is a whole other issue about execution. His execution is bad, in my opinion. He could have done it with better taste. But, personally, I think the whole thing is very distasteful anyway.

They could have used any other characters. They chose my favourite couple ever. I *really* don't like any of that.

[Hizashi]

Thanks a lot, guys, for being so kind. You see, it's Jean in my avatar pic, but there's a red filter all over it for a reason.

Is it Percy's fault, though, or is he just actually having the guts to portray this weird open-marriage thing while the other writers (like Hickman and Dugann) are just hinting at it?

I don't particularly like kid Cable either. For me, he just feels off. I can't imagine the Nathan we saw in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (and who killed his older self) would become that relatively well-adjusted teen, full of swagger, who is shown dating 7 girls in his 10-issue solo book... But that might be just me.

Yes, they are much more than their detractors, especially because the detractors don't even seem to have actually read the books. But then again, I could point out several instances in which the writers/editors don't seem to have read the books either.

I'm super old-school: I tend to prefer established characters. I don't see the "baggage" of continuity as a bad thing. I love it. I see it as an opportunity for character growth, redemption arcs, heroic moments of overcoming personal issues...

I don't want my heroes to be perfect (I want them to be flawed, actually). But I consume stories with heroes because I want to feel inspired by them. Isn't that the whole point of this kind of story?

You know what? I'll let Stan explain, because he was so much more eloquent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYNZ9CZ6U6o

I'm not exactly against open-marriages being used in stories, but I don't like it being used with Scott and Jean - I'd rather they be apart then together like this, it doesn't make sense to me.

I don't have strong feelings about Kid Cable beyond eye-rolling and wishing time-displaced characters would not be used.

Sadly, I'd bet you're right about the writers/editors. Continuity is important; writers don't need to be a slave to it, but it matters and shouldn't be ignored.