Scott Summers aka Cyclops Appreciation 2021

[Grinning Soul]

I'm not exactly against open-marriages being used in stories, but I don't like it being used with Scott and Jean - I'd rather they be apart then together like this, it doesn't make sense to me.

I'm all for diversity, but this should include "boring" couples who were high school sweethearts, got married and, somehow, despite everything, are still happy together.

Or not. Fine. Break them apart, but don't transform them into other people...

If other couples want to be poliamorous, sure, go ahead. Write them this way. I think it's distasteful for Scott and Jean. Can you imagine how the conversation went between them when they realised they were mutants and monogamy was too passé for them?

- Scott: We can't stop thinking about other people, right?
- Jean: Yeah. Let's stop fighting it?
- Scott: Okay. But family is still important, right?
- Jean: Sure. I can cook dinner, I guess.
- Scott: Open marriage, then?
- Jean: Calling ourselves husband and wife is still important even though that is a human *ugh* institution?
- Scott: Yes. You know me. I'm very consertive.
- Jean: All right, then.

[Omega Alpha]

I'm all for diversity, but this should include "boring" couples who were high school sweethearts, got married and, somehow, despite everything, are still happy together.

Or not. Fine. Break them apart, but don't transform them into other people...

If other couples want to be poliamorous, sure, go ahead. Write them this way. I think it's distasteful for Scott and Jean. Can you imagine how the conversation went between them when they realised they were mutants and monogamy was too passé for them?

- Scott: We can't stop thinking about other people, right?
- Jean: Yeah. Let's stop fighting it?
- Scott: Okay. But family is still important, right?
- Jean: Sure. I can cook dinner, I guess.
- Scott: Open marriage, then?
- Jean: Calling ourselves husband and wife is still important even though that is a human *ugh* institution?
- Scott: Yes. You know me. I'm very consertive.
- Jean: All right, then.

Nice fanfic, except you know Scott and Jean aren't the couple that met in HS and stayed together ever since DPS. Since then, Scott had a wife he married while he was still in love with Jean, then a girlfriend ( who was really a wife in all but legally) with a relationship that started when he was still with Jean, with her giving her encouragement for it. Plus, the vast majority of monogamous or poly relationships begin as monogamous ones.

[Hizashi]

I'm all for diversity, but this should include "boring" couples who were high school sweethearts, got married and, somehow, despite everything, are still happy together.

Or not. Fine. Break them apart, but don't transform them into other people...

If other couples want to be poliamorous, sure, go ahead. Write them this way. I think it's distasteful for Scott and Jean. Can you imagine how the conversation went between them when they realised they were mutants and monogamy was too passé for them?

- Scott: We can't stop thinking about other people, right?
- Jean: Yeah. Let's stop fighting it?
- Scott: Okay. But family is still important, right?
- Jean: Sure. I can cook dinner, I guess.
- Scott: Open marriage, then?
- Jean: Calling ourselves husband and wife is still important even though that is a human *ugh* institution?
- Scott: Yes. You know me. I'm very consertive.
- Jean: All right, then.

It's definitely distasteful.

I can't even began to imagine how that conversation goes — I guess Marvel couldn't either.

[Hizashi]

Nice fanfic, except you know Scott and Jean aren't the couple that met in HS and stayed together ever since DPS. Since then, Scott had a wife he married while he was still in love with Jean, then a girlfriend ( who was really a wife in all but legally) with a relationship that started when he was still with Jean, with her giving her encouragement for it. Plus, the vast majority of monogamous or poly relationships begin as monogamous ones.

Minor flub, you said monogamous relationships begin as monogamous relationships - yes, that's self-evident.

That aside, you might be correct generally but that doesn't mean it makes sense for Scott and Jean to decide to be in an open relationship.

[Grinning Soul]

Nice fanfic, except you know Scott and Jean aren't the couple that met in HS and stayed together ever since DPS. Since then, Scott had a wife he married while he was still in love with Jean, then a girlfriend ( who was really a wife in all but legally) with a relationship that started when he was still with Jean, with her giving her encouragement for it. Plus, the vast majority of monogamous or poly relationships begin as monogamous ones.

Sure, Jean died twice. I don't think there are many real-life parallels we can draw, except some cases of abduction, accidents with memory loss or something like that, which is not exactly death. The moment she's back to life, he runs back to her, though.

As for Scott's psychic affair... I could talk about it, but it's such a polemic topic... I think I'll just say I have the feeling people focus too much on the infidelity aspect and too little on the traumatic/depressive aspect of it.

That being said, as you pointed out, when Jean wasn't around, Scott had basically two wives. He was even married in the Age of X as well. That is a monogamous guy. And Jean... she's always been with him.

I don't know if the vast majority of poly relationships start as monogamous ones, but I'd be willing to accept that. I don't see how it changes the fact that lots of people won't feel comfortable in poly relationships.

[Omega Alpha]

Lots of people won't be comfortable with non-monogamy, but a lot would, and I'm guessing two people that were having clear feelings for other people, sleeping or kissing them around and were never shown to be particularly religious, conservative or prude would be good candidates. Plus, the whole literally have died and becoming gods thing.

[TheDeadSpace]

Honestly, the poly relationship seems quite divisive all on its own. What makes it a hard subject to even discuss properly is the lack of any explanation. Either side of the argument essentially has to come up with what they think makes the most sense. Heck, we don't even know what the characters currently think of it. That itself, makes me wonder if this is intended because of the story, or because it's what was considered best for the characters? Although, in Scott's case, he doesn't seem to be benefiting from it in anyway. There isn't anything new being explored with his relationship. Most of his time on panel is with his children. When he's with Jean, Emma, or Logan his interactions seem rather normal without any indication of anything else. So for him, what's the point? At the end of the day, the only romance he's had so far that's been explored on panel has been Jean, and even then it's been recent. So if the other parts are going to be absent, why include them?

At this point in time, Jean and Logan seem to be getting the most out of the setup as their relationship is technically new and constantly on panel. It seems like there is more effort put there than anywhere else. Not only that, but up to this point, that dynamic seems to be harmful to Scott's character in the process. So honestly, I would have preferred it if Scott was left out of this and be left single in the meantime. Then again, his ties to Krakoa are his family and is probably important to the future narrative, so that's probably not going to happen.

Anyway, that's just my view on the situation, with Scott in particular.

[xiyon]

Honestly, the poly relationship seems quite divisive all on its own. What makes it a hard subject to even discuss properly is the lack of any explanation. Either side of the argument essentially has to come up with what they think makes the most sense. Heck, we don't even know what the characters currently think of it. That itself, makes me wonder if this is intended because of the story, or because it's what was considered best for the characters? Although, in Scott's case, he doesn't seem to be benefiting from it in anyway. There isn't anything new being explored with his relationship. Most of his time on panel is with his children. When he's with Jean, Emma, or Logan his interactions seem rather normal without any indication of anything else. So for him, what's the point? At the end of the day, the only romance he's had so far that's been explored on panel has been Jean, and even then it's been recent. So if the other parts are going to be absent, why include them?

At this point in time, Jean and Logan seem to be getting the most out of the setup as their relationship is technically new and constantly on panel. It seems like there is more effort put there than anywhere else. Not only that, but up to this point, that dynamic seems to be harmful to Scott's character in the process. So honestly, I would have preferred it if Scott was left out of this and be left single in the meantime. Then again, his ties to Krakoa are his family and is probably important to the future narrative, so that's probably not going to happen.

Anyway, that's just my view on the situation, with Scott in particular.

Just call it like it is.

The poly thing is less about character development, and more about Hickman not wanting to poke the shipper's hive. Again, he's just using the X-Men as placeholders to tell whatever story he wants, rather than delving into the established characters (and relationships) themselves.

[Hizashi]

Lots of people won't be comfortable with non-monogamy, but a lot would, and I'm guessing two people that were having clear feelings for other people, sleeping or kissing them around and were never shown to be particularly religious, conservative or prude would be good candidates. Plus, the whole literally have died and becoming gods thing.

We don't have stats, but I don't think there are comparatively many people who would be open to polyamorous relationships as you think. You like or at least can buy that Scott and Jean would be willing to have an open relationship but there's as much, if not more, evidence to the contrary and it can't be justified after the fact because Hickman couldn't be bothered to sell us on it.

And the becomes gods thing doesn't work for me, and others I imagine, for a few reasons: first, functional immortality doesn't make them gods alone; second, that immortality isn't exactly understood yet, so even if it had a hand in this change who's to say it was a natural one?; and third, how many other characters would be likelier candidates and yet are being left alone? (and we don't know if it's happening off-panel isn't good enough).

[Hizashi]

Honestly, the poly relationship seems quite divisive all on its own. What makes it a hard subject to even discuss properly is the lack of any explanation. Either side of the argument essentially has to come up with what they think makes the most sense. Heck, we don't even know what the characters currently think of it. That itself, makes me wonder if this is intended because of the story, or because it's what was considered best for the characters? Although, in Scott's case, he doesn't seem to be benefiting from it in anyway. There isn't anything new being explored with his relationship. Most of his time on panel is with his children. When he's with Jean, Emma, or Logan his interactions seem rather normal without any indication of anything else. So for him, what's the point? At the end of the day, the only romance he's had so far that's been explored on panel has been Jean, and even then it's been recent. So if the other parts are going to be absent, why include them?

At this point in time, Jean and Logan seem to be getting the most out of the setup as their relationship is technically new and constantly on panel. It seems like there is more effort put there than anywhere else. Not only that, but up to this point, that dynamic seems to be harmful to Scott's character in the process. So honestly, I would have preferred it if Scott was left out of this and be left single in the meantime. Then again, his ties to Krakoa are his family and is probably important to the future narrative, so that's probably not going to happen.

Anyway, that's just my view on the situation, with Scott in particular.

Excellent post, yes, Scott should be removed from this situation. If Marvel wants Jean and Logan together, fine, but leave our boy out of it. The triangle has always been terrible for him and I don't care if there's "reciprocity" now, that hasn't changed with this setup.

Scott should just be single and spend time with his kids or hell, date a human woman, that would be interesting.

[Hizashi]

Sure, Jean died twice. I don't think there are many real-life parallels we can draw, except some cases of abduction, accidents with memory loss or something like that, which is not exactly death. The moment she's back to life, he runs back to her, though.

As for Scott's psychic affair... I could talk about it, but it's such a polemic topic... I think I'll just say I have the feeling people focus too much on the infidelity aspect and too little on the traumatic/depressive aspect of it.

That being said, as you pointed out, when Jean wasn't around, Scott had basically two wives. He was even married in the Age of X as well. That is a monogamous guy. And Jean... she's always been with him.

I don't know if the vast majority of poly relationships start as monogamous ones, but I'd be willing to accept that. I don't see how it changes the fact that lots of people won't feel comfortable in poly relationships.

Quoted for truth, couldn't agree more.

[Grinning Soul]

Lots of people won't be comfortable with non-monogamy, but a lot would, and I'm guessing two people that were having clear feelings for other people, sleeping or kissing them around and were never shown to be particularly religious, conservative or prude would be good candidates. Plus, the whole literally have died and becoming gods thing.

But that's the whole point, isn't it? If Scott still has feelings for Emma and Jean doesn't understand why she should keep resisting her crazy attraction to Logan, why would Scott and Jean look at each other and consider going for a poliamorous relationship when they can just break up? Again, if the writer doesn't show me something has actually changed about these characters, I have to go with what I know of them. Those are monogamous people not because of morality, but because it's who they are.

I don't think everyone has in them the ability to be okay in a poliamorous relationship. And I'm basing myself on the accounts that multiple groups have tried "free love" and most of the couples in these groups did not survive. I don't think you can say that those people, who truly believed in what they were doing at the time, were being too moral, too repressed and that's why they failed.

There's nothing wrong in polyamory if everyone involved knows what's going on. But that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

Excellent post, yes, Scott should be removed from this situation. If Marvel wants Jean and Logan together, fine, but leave our boy out of it. The triangle has always been terrible for him and I don't care if there's "reciprocity" now, that hasn't changed with this setup.

Scott should just be single and spend time with his kids or hell, date a human woman, that would be interesting.

Exactly. Scott and Jean don't need to be together. They can even be parents and be involved in the lives of their children and still not be a couple. You know, like so many humans do.

I would like to see a mutant dating a human too and it could be Scott. I just don't think any mutant in this Krakoan era will even look at a human, though. Also... there's a law to make more mutants. Not sure what it actually means.

I actually really want to know what it means, though, because it's the part of this Krakoan experiment that freaks me out the most. And there are a lot of things that really freak me out.

[loke13]

But that's the whole point, isn't it? If Scott still has feelings for Emma and Jean doesn't understand why she should keep resisting her crazy attraction to Logan, why would Scott and Jean look at each other and consider going for a poliamorous relationship when they can just break up? Again, if the writer doesn't show me something has actually changed about these characters, I have to go with what I know of them. Those are monogamous people not because of morality, but because it's who they are.

I don't think everyone has in them the ability to be okay in a poliamorous relationship. And I'm basing myself on the accounts that multiple groups have tried "free love" and most of the couples in these groups did not survive. I don't think you can say that those people, who truly believed in what they were doing at the time, were being too moral, too repressed and that's why they failed.

There's nothing wrong in polyamory if everyone involved knows what's going on. But that doesn't mean it is for everyone.




Exactly. Scott and Jean don't need to be together. They can even be parents and be involved in the lives of their children and still not be a couple. You know, like so many humans do.

I would like to see a mutant dating a human too and it could be Scott. I just don't think any mutant in this Krakoan era will even look at a human, though. Also... there's a law to make more mutants. Not sure what it actually means.

I actually really want to know what it means, though, because it's the part of this Krakoan experiment that freaks me out the most. And there are a lot of things that really freak me out.

Are we ignoring the fact that Northstar is married/living with his very human husband on Krakoa?

"Make more mutants" literally just means that. Either through resurrection or procreation.

I feel like people are confusing pro mutant sentiment with anti human sentiment.

[Grinning Soul]

Are we ignoring the fact that Northstar is married/living with his very human husband on Krakoa?

"Make more mutants" literally just means that. Either through resurrection or procreation.

I feel like people are confusing pro mutant sentiment with anti human sentiment.

Well, there's both pro-mutant and anti-human sentiment going on. And that relationship was formed pre-Krakoa, right? I meant I find it hard that a mutant would want to be in a relationship with a human post-Krakoa because their culture seems (and that, of course, varies from character to character) to be very pre-occupied in separating themselves from the non-mutants to the point they even created their own language (confession: as an expratriate, I may be giving this more importance than the writers intended and it might be colouring my view).

What bothers me about the "make more mutants" is the fact it is a law, not a guideline. I'm not sure how mutants view their own laws, but, by non-mutant standards, a law is something you have to comply with, otherwise you'll have to deal with some form of reprimand/punishment. From that perspective, think of what that means... What happens to someone who breaks that law? What is considered breaking that law?

I think we'll see more about it in Way of X, right? But until then, the possible implications freak me out.

[witchboy]

Scott has had involvements with human women in the past - Colleen Wing and Lee Forrester.
If Scott and Jean were to break up, I'd rather see a focus put back onto him and Emma, which is still implied to be ongoing.
I do feel like poly relationships are getting written like gay characters in the 90s. They're implied, wink wink nudge nudge, but with with deniability for people who don't want to see it. I'd really rather they write them with more openness if they're going to do it.