Scott Summers aka Cyclops Appreciation 2021

[Gray Lensman]

Who else would they be?

Replacements that hatched out of Krakoan seed pods.....

[Hizashi]

Who else would they be?

Replacements that hatched out of Krakoan seed pods.....

Yeah, what Gray said. The question of souls can't be ignored, I need a definitive answer, and hopefully that's where we're going.

[Omega Alpha]

Whatever happened to their souls was likely exactly the same as what happened to them when they died after they were killed by Dr. Doom in the first Secret Wars, or when they were killed by Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet, or when they died when the Multiverse collapsed in the 2nd Secret War, or the other 9000 times each hero died before.

[xiyon]

At the start of Hickman's run, I liked to imagine that these were brainwashed clones made by Xavier/Magneto/Moira(/Sinister, possibly), and that the real X-Men--- the ones left standing at the end of Rosenberger's run--- were either killed or are in hiding, rebuilding their strength and waiting to pounce. I mean, that's the only way I could think of to reconcile how everyone's all chummy and kumbaya all of a sudden. Especially after all the shite thrown in Scott's way for allying with Magneto when their species was on the brink of extinction.

Then, I just accepted that Hickman cherry-picked continuity for his reboot of the franchise and/or the whole cast are a bunch of hypocrites. It definitely killed whatever enjoyment I had left from reading the books but, eh, there are better stuff I can spend my money on.

As for the question of Souls, Omega hit the nail. Souls, much like the rest of continuity, are an inconsistent plot device in Marvel. Which, again to me, is sad, since I enjoyed Illyana's long quest to regain her soul and Laura's existential crisis over clones having a soul just over a decade ago. I don't know--- their storylines made them unique within the narrative universe, in my eyes.

Now, we just have pod-people and save files.

[Gray Lensman]

At the start of Hickman's run, I liked to imagine that these were brainwashed clones made by Xavier/Magneto/Moira(/Sinister, possibly), and that the real X-Men--- the ones left standing at the end of Rosenberger's run--- were either killed or are in hiding, rebuilding their strength and waiting to pounce. I mean, that's the only way I could think of to reconcile how everyone's all chummy and kumbaya all of a sudden. Especially after all the shite thrown in Scott's way for allying with Magneto when their species was on the brink of extinction.

Then, I just accepted that Hickman cherry-picked continuity for his reboot of the franchise and/or the whole cast are a bunch of hypocrites. It definitely killed whatever enjoyment I had left from reading the books but, eh, there are better stuff I can spend my money on.

As for the question of Souls, Omega hit the nail. Souls, much like the rest of continuity, are an inconsistent plot device in Marvel. Which, again to me, is sad, since I enjoyed Illyana's long quest to regain her soul and Laura's existential crisis over clones having a soul just over a decade ago. I don't know--- their storylines made them unique within the narrative universe, in my eyes.

Now, we just have pod-people and save files.

To be fair, I agree with you assessment more than the pod people theory, but I understand where those who feel that way are coming from. Especially since Hickman's cherry picked continuity seems more extreme than anything not set in an alternate universe. Granted, every writer cherry picks continuity to some extent, it's just that the Krakoa relaunch seems more extreme than anything that came before.

[TheDeadSpace]

To be fair, I agree with you assessment more than the pod people theory, but I understand where those who feel that way are coming from. Especially since Hickman's cherry picked continuity seems more extreme than anything not set in an alternate universe. Granted, every writer cherry picks continuity to some extent, it's just that the Krakoa relaunch seems more extreme than anything that came before.

It honestly feels like a soft reboot.

[Kisinith]

It honestly feels like a soft reboot.

To a large extent I think it was. One of the major problems with the X-Men had been how unrelentingly broken the franchise had become. Families, relationships, teams, trust, emotional and psychological health all shattered for almost all of the characters. The X-line has been riven by decades of near constant deconstruction with practically no time or space given to recovery. Realistically there should be no way the vast majority of X-Men (just X-Men, not even counting the other mutants) should ever be able to coexist let alone cooperate. Perpetual hero vs hero conflict within the X-line had rotted away its most defining characteristics (family and team).

Hickman started his run by time skipping ahead and hand waving away a lot of the recovery time. He's not removing what happened but pretty clearly they've moved past it. This is inherently unsatisfying, I want to see a reckoning over things like mutant Hitler, the massive douchbaggery and hypocrisy of the previous years. As unsatisfying as it is however, its probably better this way. Editorial either didn't or couldn't agree on what happened and who was responsible, characters were straight up unlikeable, the stories sucked and providing resolution means perpetuating the problems.

As a result of whatever happened during the time skip the characters are likeable again, the line is undergoing positive construction and there are actual villains as antagonists instead of other X-Men. How did we get here? No idea, maybe they spent those months drinking and hugging it out, or duking it out. Personally I'm of the opinion that the Magnificent Bastard Xavier psychic whammied everyone similarly to what happened to Domino in X-Force. I used to really want to see how we got here but truthfully i don't care that much any more. I like the line again. It could be better, I'm still underwhelmed with what they've had Cyclops doing but I like where its going and I like the new X-Men team so... fingers crossed.

[Hizashi]

At the start of Hickman's run, I liked to imagine that these were brainwashed clones made by Xavier/Magneto/Moira(/Sinister, possibly), and that the real X-Men--- the ones left standing at the end of Rosenberger's run--- were either killed or are in hiding, rebuilding their strength and waiting to pounce. I mean, that's the only way I could think of to reconcile how everyone's all chummy and kumbaya all of a sudden. Especially after all the shite thrown in Scott's way for allying with Magneto when their species was on the brink of extinction.

Then, I just accepted that Hickman cherry-picked continuity for his reboot of the franchise and/or the whole cast are a bunch of hypocrites. It definitely killed whatever enjoyment I had left from reading the books but, eh, there are better stuff I can spend my money on.

As for the question of Souls, Omega hit the nail. Souls, much like the rest of continuity, are an inconsistent plot device in Marvel. Which, again to me, is sad, since I enjoyed Illyana's long quest to regain her soul and Laura's existential crisis over clones having a soul just over a decade ago. I don't know--- their storylines made them unique within the narrative universe, in my eyes.

Now, we just have pod-people and save files.

I wanted to see the same thing, I know we'll never see it now because Marvel would have to admit they pushed a failed narrative, but Scott deserves some apologies for starters.

What is with the animus against continuity? Jeez.

[Hizashi]

To a large extent I think it was. One of the major problems with the X-Men had been how unrelentingly broken the franchise had become. Families, relationships, teams, trust, emotional and psychological health all shattered for almost all of the characters. The X-line has been riven by decades of near constant deconstruction with practically no time or space given to recovery. Realistically there should be no way the vast majority of X-Men (just X-Men, not even counting the other mutants) should ever be able to coexist let alone cooperate. Perpetual hero vs hero conflict within the X-line had rotted away its most defining characteristics (family and team).

Hickman started his run by time skipping ahead and hand waving away a lot of the recovery time. He's not removing what happened but pretty clearly they've moved past it. This is inherently unsatisfying, I want to see a reckoning over things like mutant Hitler, the massive douchbaggery and hypocrisy of the previous years. As unsatisfying as it is however, its probably better this way. Editorial either didn't or couldn't agree on what happened and who was responsible, characters were straight up unlikeable, the stories sucked and providing resolution means perpetuating the problems.

As a result of whatever happened during the time skip the characters are likeable again, the line is undergoing positive construction and there are actual villains as antagonists instead of other X-Men. How did we get here? No idea, maybe they spent those months drinking and hugging it out, or duking it out. Personally I'm of the opinion that the Magnificent Bastard Xavier psychic whammied everyone similarly to what happened to Domino in X-Force. I used to really want to see how we got here but truthfully i don't care that much any more. I like the line again. It could be better, I'm still underwhelmed with what they've had Cyclops doing but I like where its going and I like the new X-Men team so... fingers crossed.

More power to you my friend, but I can't accept we went from A to D without seeing B and C. I'm enjoying Duggan's X-Men so far, but that's while ignoring external issues about the overall Krakoa Era.

I've said it before and I'll say it forever, but for me positive construction would be seeing mutantdom integrating, not isolating into yet another mutant nation.

[Gray Lensman]

More power to you my friend, but I can't accept we went from A to D without seeing B and C. I'm enjoying Duggan's X-Men so far, but that's while ignoring external issues about the overall Krakoa Era.

I've said it before and I'll say it forever, but for me positive construction would be seeing mutantdom integrating, not isolating into yet another mutant nation.

As far as skipping B and C goes, I can see both sides of this one. I appreciate and wish we could have gotten some closure to all the crap, but Marvel had gone so far in to constant deconstruction and the obliteration of a brand (thinking they would NEVER get it back) that not skipping over and rebuilding would take......well, personally I think we would STILL be dealing with old issues rather than moving forward.

[Hizashi]

As far as skipping B and C goes, I can see both sides of this one. I appreciate and wish we could have gotten some closure to all the crap, but Marvel had gone so far in to constant deconstruction and the obliteration of a brand (thinking they would NEVER get it back) that not skipping over and rebuilding would take......well, personally I think we would STILL be dealing with old issues rather than moving forward.

That's fair, I understand it's mostly a personal hang-up. I don't even really need multiple issues or anything like that, just some acknowledgment on page. I know even that is a long-shot.

[Kisinith]

You're not wrong. Like I said, I get the dissatisfaction but like Gray Lensman said, if they tried to untangle that mess I think they would still be mired in it and cynically I have no faith in their ability to do so in any kind of satisfying way.

[Omega Alpha]

You're not wrong. Like I said, I get the dissatisfaction but like Gray Lensman said, if they tried to untangle that mess I think they would still be mired in it and cynically I have no faith in their ability to do so in any kind of satisfying way.

There is also the small matter most of the people involved in making the...lost decade are still at Marvel, and in charge of things.

[Kisinith]

Yup, and I have not and will not criticize those for whom this has been too much. Marvel has been treating both the X-line and the X-fans like crap for years. I want them to address the last couple of decades, I just don't think they will and don't trust them to handle it without making things worse. After all these are the people who think that Iron Man was right in Civil War, Wolverine was right in Schism, and Captain Marvel was right in Civil War II.

[TheDeadSpace]

To a large extent I think it was. One of the major problems with the X-Men had been how unrelentingly broken the franchise had become. Families, relationships, teams, trust, emotional and psychological health all shattered for almost all of the characters. The X-line has been riven by decades of near constant deconstruction with practically no time or space given to recovery. Realistically there should be no way the vast majority of X-Men (just X-Men, not even counting the other mutants) should ever be able to coexist let alone cooperate. Perpetual hero vs hero conflict within the X-line had rotted away its most defining characteristics (family and team).

Hickman started his run by time skipping ahead and hand waving away a lot of the recovery time. He's not removing what happened but pretty clearly they've moved past it. This is inherently unsatisfying, I want to see a reckoning over things like mutant Hitler, the massive douchbaggery and hypocrisy of the previous years. As unsatisfying as it is however, its probably better this way. Editorial either didn't or couldn't agree on what happened and who was responsible, characters were straight up unlikeable, the stories sucked and providing resolution means perpetuating the problems.

As a result of whatever happened during the time skip the characters are likeable again, the line is undergoing positive construction and there are actual villains as antagonists instead of other X-Men. How did we get here? No idea, maybe they spent those months drinking and hugging it out, or duking it out. Personally I'm of the opinion that the Magnificent Bastard Xavier psychic whammied everyone similarly to what happened to Domino in X-Force. I used to really want to see how we got here but truthfully i don't care that much any more. I like the line again. It could be better, I'm still underwhelmed with what they've had Cyclops doing but I like where its going and I like the new X-Men team so... fingers crossed.

That's certainly true.

Although I can't say all characters are quite likable again. The time jump certainly did favors for some. Others not so much, but that's definitely a subjective viewpoint.

Also, as you pointed out in your other reply posts, the time skip can be quite divisive, but everyone certainly has their own tastes. There's no problem there.