Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[L.H.]

No it's not Dick's fault he lost his memory. It was the messed up things he said and did to her WHICH HE ADMITTED were messed up and on him.

Dick was the one saying "I screwed up. What I did/said was crappy! It's just my unrealistic standards for myself and everyone else issues. But I can change." speech and Shawn wasn't having it.

Dick was so torn up about it he soon after went and slept with Huntress.

But now it's essentially written at least if we go by King Shark#1 like Shawn puts the blame squarely on herself now.

Lol, you know it's the same writer, right?

Dick is always blaming himself for everything, nothing new. When he does that, it's his fault, when others get to understand there were wrong, it's writer's fault. That's how you see it only because you want to blame him.

Well, when I red the run, I thought Shawn was wrong, and she grew on me in King Shark because she was able to admit her fault.

[Badou]

Dick didn't just "show up at her friend's wedding to tell her he loved her."

He showed up at the wedding, he stole her friend's engagement ring in order to force her to come with her. Meanwhile he tried to get her to cheat on Luke whom he was just introduced to as her boyfriend.

I get you don't like Dick's character and don't want him with Barbara, but the scene was obviously meant to be Dick showing he had feelings for Barbara still in a playful way but it was just written poorly. Luke is a complete non character so it was never going to be a romance that went anywhere in the end. He is such a non character they passed over him to be the new black Batman in favor of his brother. If you liked them together then that is fine but it was never going to be anything more than a fling for a story arc.

Also the other example you posted from the Nightwing story with Babs showing up at his door was really far into the past. The examples I mentioned were of moments after Babs broke off their engagement. Which is the turning point that marked their current dynamic that has been going on for like 15 years now. With them stuck in this will they/won't they limbo. Where Dick is the one mostly chasing her and she comes up with reasons why they can't be together. From the timing not being right, where each other is located, and that one or both are already in a relationship that mainly exists just to prevent them from being together. Dick has his own stories so he isn't going to just wait around for her to say yes to him and will have other relationships. I mean recently that is a big reason why Bea's whole character existed in that awful Ric story. Where she existed to just get in between Dick and Babs where you even had Babs show up to Bludhaven to threaten her about her relationship with Dick/Ric.

But I am on record not liking him either either Starfire or Babs. I don't think Dick is some saint or anything and never in the wrong, but I'm mostly over romance in comics in general at this point, and if you made me choose then I'll pick Babs because I think she offers more utility for stories and you are a lot more limited in what you can do with Starfire as a character. Plus I'd pick the Batman franchise over the Titans franchise for Dick given the complete lack of any good Titans stories for him in decades. Also if you want to talk about relationships being toxic then I think the Starfire one was worse in my opinion. From Dick being raped and her getting angry at him for it, and of course the whole marriage drama where Dick was so upset she had to marry someone else. I get stories back then were hyper dramatic, as that was the style, but it was also the era that I think really formed the whole "Dick has anger problems" thing because of it too. It wasn't fun.

[Drako]

Just meme'ing on that post.

But correct my timeline if I'm wrong.

Dick had a crush on Barbara before he met Starfire.
Dick met Starfire while he was on the Titans.
Dick had a relationship with Starfire before he ever dated Barbara.
Barbara goes to see Dick with flowers to see if a relationship can start, and finds him post-sex with Starfire.
Starfire had to go back to her planet to be in an arranged marriage.
She essentially left that marriage to be with Dick.
Dick and Kory decide to get married.
Dick sleeps with Barbara after she gets paralyzed and then invites her to he and Kory's wedding.
Their wedding is ruined by Raven who puts part of herself in Starfire, unbeknownst to the evil side of herself.
Shes goes back home.

Until this part is right.

To be clear, i absolutely hate Annual #2.
Neither Dick or Babs came out well in that ****.

He starts dating Barbara.
Kory comes back.
Kory and Dick start having sex again.

Dick and Kory never had anything after his Teen Titans run and he pretty much became a Bat character.

He was in a relationship with Barbara from the 90s up until the infinite crisis, were he supposed to die. He proposes to her in what was he last book as Nightwing before "One Year Later" but the plans got scrached and he was still alive. Babs decide to not marry him and he moves to New York.

Years later he and Kory did have sex during Titans by Winnick, but he was not with Barbara anymore and they were under influence of Trigon.

Dick also does stuff with Huntress.
The constant love triangle is too much for her so she leaves. Particularly as they can't stop their physical stuff whenever she's around. (okay..problematic but okay...)

He had a thing with Huntress before dating Barbara in the 90s.
There is no love triangle. Helena and Barbara weren't even friends.

Then New52 (about when I stopped reading comics consistently)
Rebirth or something
They meet again and Babs tries to make out with him out of nowhere. (yes throwing herself at him)

This is the New 52. They weren't together and was pretty much implied they never had anything other than flirt with each other.

Dick tells Babs he's moving on and promises not to break the other girl's heart.

I don't remember this, was from Rebirth? I think it was. Can you point me which in issue was?

The girl is Shawn. He hurts her and does indeed break her heart.
Dick does and says some messed up things and Shawn is done with him. (but now they write it that Shawn blames herself....okay.....problematic but okay.... King Shark new bestie now..)
Dick goes and sleeps with Huntress again.

The thing with Shawn was messed up, yes. She was a villain trying to get into the good side. She didn't have much control of her actions and start to act more uncontrollable.

He should helped her, but they broke up.
After that, Helena went to Bludhaven. This Helena is different form the Huntress that he had a relationship before the New 52. In any case, they were pretty much atracted to each other during his time as a Spy, but they did not have much going on. They finally start having something, after he broke up with Shawn. Which, again, i agree it's messed up.

Helena brokes up with him. He take a bullet to the head and became someone else.

Becomes Ric
Eventually Ric starts dating Beatrice.
Gets his memory back but tells Beatrice that despite the fact he was Ric he was in love with her the whole time.

Not what happened. He goes to Bea and say that Rick was another person and he don't have that feelings. That was a lie, because he still had the memories about them, and the feelings. She was just attacked by KGBeast, he didn't want her being part of that life.

They had to close the Ric chapter and Bea was part of it.

Then the writers decide he isn't and have the idea of Batman's "We can't be superheroes and be happy..." till Batman wants to be with Selena Kyle then he's all "I CAN BE BATMAN AND HAPPY...." to his father -_- And more and more I see this is why I stopped reading comics consistently...

I don't like most of the decision DC makes for him and i can agree when is messed up. But i think it's very important to have the context to all those decisions.

[Majesty]

Until this part is right.

To be clear, i absolutely hate Annual #2.
Neither Dick or Babs came out well in that ****.



Dick and Kory never had anything after his Teen Titans run and he pretty much became a Bat character.

He was in a relationship with Barbara from the 90s up until the infinite crisis, were he supposed to die. He proposes to her in what was he last book as Nightwing before "One Year Later" but the plans got scrached and he was still alive. Babs decide to not marry him and he moves to New York.

Years later he and Kory did have sex during Titans by Winnick, but he was not with Barbara anymore and they were under influence of Trigon.



He had a thing with Huntress before dating Barbara in the 90s.
There is no love triangle. Helena and Barbara weren't even friends.




This is the New 52. They weren't together and was pretty much implied they never had anything other than flirt with each other.




I don't remember this, was from Rebirth? I think it was. Can you point me which in issue was?



The thing with Shawn was messed up, yes. She was a villain trying to get into the good side. She didn't have much control of her actions and start to act more uncontrollable.

He should helped her, but they broke up.
After that, Helena went to Bludhaven. This Helena is different form the Huntress that he had a relationship before the New 52. In any case, they were pretty much atracted to each other during his time as a Spy, but they did not have much going on. They finally start having something, after he broke up with Shawn. Which, again, i agree it's messed up.

Helena brokes up with him. He take a bullet to the head and became someone else.




Not what happened. He goes to Bea and say that Rick was another person and he don't have that feelings. That was a lie, because he still had the memories about them, and the feelings. She was just attacked by KGBeast, he didn't want her being part of that life.

They had to close the Ric chapter and Bea was part of it.




I don't like most of the decision DC makes for him and i can agree when is messed up. But i think it's very important to have the context to all those decisions.

Sadly Shawn and that situation was probably the most invested I'd been in a while, because I sadly for a moment actually expected them to let it breathe the way it should have and continue to develop. But then when they broke them up which was very messed up and I'm glad we agree there It just made me sigh and go "here we go again.."

And eventually.. I just got tired of saying "here we go again" when it comes to these characters.

For the "Don't break her heart" moment here you go

wejoe3qsq0i71.jpg

Dialogue:

Dick: I just stayed in the air, going where the current took me. Staying up above it all meant I never had to choose a place to put my feet on the ground. But I've chosen now. A place to swing back to. And a person.

Babs: And it's not Gotham. And it's not-- (Babs pulls her hand away)
Babs (kisses Dick on the head): Don't break her heart, Dick Grayson.

Problem is this was a GREAT a FANTASTIC growing moment for the BOTH of them and would have been the perfect place to end it on and let them go on and be their own people without needing to be together. Particularly after everything.

"Don't break her heart Dick Grayson."
1m2iinbe5kt41.jpg

And now we know what happens after....

I hate when these growing moments make you expect that they are actually going to let characters grow.... and then stuff like with Shawn happens and it's ... sigh. Yeah, it's why I got tired of "here we go again"s.

[Drako]

Sadly Shawn and that situation was probably the most invested I'd been in a while, because I sadly for a moment actually expected them to let it breathe the way it should have and continue to develop. But then when they broke them up which was very messed up and I'm glad we agree there It just made me sigh and go "here we go again.."

And eventually.. I just got tired of saying "here we go again" when it comes to these characters.

For the "Don't break her heart" moment here you go

Dialogue:

Dick: I just stayed in the air, going where the current took me. Staying up above it all meant I never had to choose a place to put my feet on the ground. But I've chosen now. A place to swing back to. And a person.

Babs: And it's not Gotham. And it's not-- (Babs pulls her hand away)
Babs (kisses Dick on the head): Don't break her heart, Dick Grayson.

Problem is this was a GREAT a FANTASTIC growing moment for the BOTH of them and would have been the perfect place to end it on and let them go on and be their own people without needing to be together. Particularly after everything.

"Don't break her heart Dick Grayson."

And now we know what happens after....

I hate when these growing moments make you expect that they are actually going to let characters grow.... and then stuff like with Shawn happens and it's ... sigh. Yeah, it's why I got tired of "here we go again"s.

Oh, ok. It's from Seeley's run, i forgot that.

I never expected Shawn to be with him for much time. I remember the backlash Seeley got after Dick said he loved Shawn and after the fake pregnancy stuff. I never liked how Seeley ended their relationship, but i expected to end soon or later.

People don't want him with unknown characters. They want him either with Babs or Kory.

The thing now going for them is that Tom Taylor is 1) a respected writer, 2) have the sales of the book going up like we didn't saw for a long time so i think DC is giving him free range 3) is the type of writer that respect relationships so i think he can make this work.

Like i said here before, i like him and Babs toghter and i hope the make this permantly already cause i really dislike the "Will they Won't they" routine.

[L.H.]

Sadly Shawn and that situation was probably the most invested I'd been in a while, because I sadly for a moment actually expected them to let it breathe the way it should have and continue to develop. But then when they broke them up which was very messed up and I'm glad we agree there It just made me sigh and go "here we go again.."

And eventually.. I just got tired of saying "here we go again" when it comes to these characters.

For the "Don't break her heart" moment here you go

wejoe3qsq0i71.jpg

Dialogue:

Dick: I just stayed in the air, going where the current took me. Staying up above it all meant I never had to choose a place to put my feet on the ground. But I've chosen now. A place to swing back to. And a person.

Babs: And it's not Gotham. And it's not-- (Babs pulls her hand away)
Babs (kisses Dick on the head): Don't break her heart, Dick Grayson.

Problem is this was a GREAT a FANTASTIC growing moment for the BOTH of them and would have been the perfect place to end it on and let them go on and be their own people without needing to be together. Particularly after everything.

"Don't break her heart Dick Grayson."
1m2iinbe5kt41.jpg

And now we know what happens after....

I hate when these growing moments make you expect that they are actually going to let characters grow.... and then stuff like with Shawn happens and it's ... sigh. Yeah, it's why I got tired of "here we go again"s.

You keep saying it was Dick's fault, 'cause he broke her heart.
That's not what I remember. I remember him being honest about his own feelings and ready to try again, I remember Shawn telling him they were done.
She broke his heart as much as he broke her's, if not more.
That's why he went back to Helena.

Also, you said Kory left his marriage because of him, but you probably forgot how much that marriage broke Dick.
You keep looking at only one side of his relationships, siding always with the other part and blaming everything on him.
That's not how it works. In every break out there are always two truths.

Dick always cared for and loved his partners, even after they become exes.
You can say you don't like how he works through his relationships, but you can't call him the worst partner.

[Rac7d*]

Oh, ok. It's from Seeley's run, i forgot that.

I never expected Shawn to be with him for much time. I remember the backlash Seeley got after Dick said he loved Shawn and after the fake pregnancy stuff. I never liked how Seeley ended their relationship, but i expected to end soon or later.

People don't want him with unknown characters. They want him either with Babs or Kory.

The thing now going for them is that Tom Taylor is 1) a respected writer, 2) have the sales of the book going up like we didn't saw for a long time so i think DC is giving him free range 3) is the type of writer that respect relationships so i think he can make this work.

Like i said here before, i like him and Babs toghter and i hope the make this permantly already cause i really dislike the "Will they Won't they" routine.

It can be tiring however it’s not all the writers fault

We had a world ending situation
His faux death/Spyral
Shot in the head/memory wipe
Death Metal

Everytime a writer builds them back up somthing shattering happens that interferes
Tim has enough weight I think we can be assured of some stability. DC won’t interfere with a successful run, that also being back by their live action media and games. We just have to be patient.

[Drako]

You keep saying it was Dick's fault, 'cause he broke her heart.
That's not what I remember. I remember him being honest about his own feelings and ready to try again, I remember Shawn telling him they were done.
She broke his heart as much as he broke her's, if not more.
That's why he went back to Helena.

Also, you said Kory left his marriage because of him, but you probably forgot how much that marriage broke Dick.
You keep looking at only one side of his relationships, siding always with the other part and blaming everything on him.
That's not how it works. In every break out there are always two truths.

Dick always cared for and loved his partners, even after they become exes.
You can say you don't like how he works through his relationships, but you can't call him the worst partner.

When DC allowed him to have a long relationship, they were great. There is a reason why people root for him with Barbara or Starfire, because their relationship were long and stable. But for some reason DC needs the drama.

And it's not like he didn't have a bunch of toxic partners too. Liu, fhe first woman he had sex, was using him to get to Wayne enterprises. Tarantula raped him. Raya Vestri tricked him and try to kill him.

[L.H.]

You forgot Mirage.

I agree about the long term relationship, that's one of the reasons why I hate Devine Grayson's run.

[Drako]

You forgot Mirage.

I agree about the long term relationship, that's one of the reasons why I hate Devine Grayson's run.

Yeah, but Mirage raped him for "the fun of it", he was with Starfire at the time. And Kory blame him for being raped.

[L.H.]

Kory was horrible to him, probably that's what ruined their relationship for me.

[The World]

Never mind. Not even worth it.

[Restingvoice]

I think nobody really has a solid timeline in mind. TTA writer knew that Babs is in Bludhave and used that.

Oh I know. I'm checking if it can fit.

Dick and Kory are not dating.

Taylor is Nightwing's writer, so I think he knows enough.

What happened in TTA was BEFORE Dick went back to Bludhaven, before he knew about Alfred's will and everything else. Months ago, just as Taylor said on Twitter.
As far as we know, that scene could have happened even before the "wedding" in Death Metal. If you need something to blame, blame it on Sheridan, not Dick.

Months ago don't add up because TTA mentioned Babs and Bludhaven while Nightwing was surprised when he saw Babs in Bludhaven, but like above said, they're not really thinking detailed.

That's true, as the Academy was actually established in the last issue of the previous TT run in November, before the Endless Winter event in December. Future State, where Sheridan took over the Titans, was the fo
llowing month. Since that means it was published during Death Metal, it could've been before or after it.

After. When Death Metal was over the timeline resets to before Batman Who Laughs attacked, which is after the end of Snyder's Justice League and Justice Doom War, but in this new timeline, there's no Metal.

Instead, after Joker War happened and Dick regained his memory, Donna visited him for the first time in the hotel room and Dick received Damian's letter so they approached the Teen Titans with the idea. Dick went to Christmas dinner in Bruce's place, then there's Endless Winter, A-Day in spring, and a month after that the current Bat family timeline stories begin.

So they were building the Academy over the winter, opening in spring.

===

So a Dick Kori fan was questioning the relationship status on Twitter, but later, they have been convinced that Dick and Kori's sex was just a birthday gift during the time where Dick hasn't begun a relationship with Barbara because the writers said so but I haven't found where they said so.

So yeah. Apparently it was a birthday gift and they haven't committed further than that. I guess Kori wanted more or thinking it will open a possibility, since at that time Dick hasn't committed to anyone, but once the phone call happened, even with Dick trying convince her that it was nothing, and it was nothing at that time, she can guess what will happen and decided to closed it off.

Well, that's simpler, I'll just place it somewhere during the montage in #83. (I forgot that in #80 Dick spent the day trying to find Heartless)

[Konja7]

Yeah, but Mirage raped him for "the fun of it", he was with Starfire at the time. And Kory blame him for being raped.

Kory was horrible to him, probably that's what ruined their relationship for me.

Not wanting to get into this debate, but Barbara slut-shamed Dick when he was raped by Tarantula.

We need to accept that the writers don't take seriously the fact that Dick was raped by a woman. I wouldn't blame characters for that.

[SiegePerilous02]

I wouldn't blame either Kory or Barbara for how they were written during the respective rape storylines. Clearly the authors were just not equipped to deal with the subject matter.

I think the romance with Kory isn't very healthy in the long run though, just going on what Wolfman and Perez gave us. She was good to help him be more in touch with his emotions and not pressure himself to be like Bruce, but they just seemed like they constantly had to babysit each other: Kory so Dick wouldn't become too obsessed and serious, Dick so that she wouldn't fly off the handle and kill someone. Like they are two young early 20-somethings who are very passionate, but the passion burns hot and fast and isn't the best foundation for long term stability.