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  1. #1381
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    James Tynion revealed on twitter he and mikel janin were originally going to relaunch nightwing after forever evil, but the pitch was rejected by DC and turned into grayon instead: https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...77114021539846

    Really interesting twitter thread(with some never before seen art!)

  2. #1382
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Thank god for Grayson.

  3. #1383
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And then Nightwing Year One shows he was this close to cheating on her with Babs again until Babs put a stop to it.

    Granted that's all retroactive since a lot of Dick and Babs' Post-Crisis relationship became retcons, but still.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Yeah, I don't mind Dick developing feelings for Babs after he became Nightwing (he seems the type to fall in love too easily anyway) but I got annoyed when Dixon and co acted like Dicks & Babs were always meant to be and that Kory was just a fling. Despite the fact that Kory and Dick's romance developed more organically and they had to retcon a lot of history to make Dick/Babs work.
    Dixon seemed to try to downplay the Titans stuff in general from what I recall. And look, they weren't all that hot anymore, but retconning a more intense romance with Babs pre-break up with Kory and having Dick say stuff like "I never intended to stick around as long as I did" is taking it way too far.

    That and Nightwing: Year One is just horrendous just for how it handles Bruce. It's never been a good substitute for just reading the Judas Contract.

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    James Tynion revealed on twitter he and mikel janin were originally going to relaunch nightwing after forever evil, but the pitch was rejected by DC and turned into grayon instead: https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...77114021539846

    Really interesting twitter thread(with some never before seen art!)
    I wish we got that original funeral

  5. #1385
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Dixon seemed to try to downplay the Titans stuff in general from what I recall. And look, they weren't all that hot anymore, but retconning a more intense romance with Babs pre-break up with Kory and having Dick say stuff like "I never intended to stick around as long as I did" is taking it way too far.

    That and Nightwing: Year One is just horrendous just for how it handles Bruce. It's never been a good substitute for just reading the Judas Contract.
    I like to think of it and Judas Contract in tandem, but even if Bruce comes off kind of bad (not the worst) I think it's still a solid story.

    In context he and Babs flirted hard as teenagers but he got more passionate with Kory, like a college romance.

  6. #1386
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    James Tynion revealed on twitter he and mikel janin were originally going to relaunch nightwing after forever evil, but the pitch was rejected by DC and turned into grayon instead: https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...77114021539846

    Really interesting twitter thread(with some never before seen art!)
    We dodged a bullet there.

  7. #1387
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    We dodged a bullet there.
    Yeah, but seeing how much editorial denied him really does show such a contrast compared to how editorial is currently running with all these fan favorite characters returning lately.

  8. #1388
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I suspect that it was Johns who blocked Owlman's usage? Because that sounds kinda same as the situation Shazam was in till very recently.

  9. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I suspect that it was Johns who blocked Owlman's usage? Because that sounds kinda same as the situation Shazam was in till very recently.

    Which is odd, because Johns seems to have spent some time in Forever Evil and its tie ins establishing an Owlman/Nightwing relationship that's right in his wheelhouse - then dropping it completely.

    On paper, the original idea has stuff going for it - it's no Grayson, and the Nolan movie "synergy" now seems hilariously dated, but "Dick has to keep his head down and not be a hero, because he's circling a universe-threatening figure" has potential. But it sounds like the pitch was gutted long before Tynion walked.

    Remember when it looked like the last few issues of Higgins time on the book were going to be "Dick on the run during Forever Evil" tie-ins? It's weird how that now mostly rightly forgotten event kept nearly being Dicks Big Push, then fizzled entirely.

  10. #1390
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I don't think Johns cared. After he exposed Dick's identity to the world in Forever Evil Johns showed no interest in what DC did with Dick's character. He didn't care and the burden of what to do with Dick fell on the Batman editorial after Johns tossed his mess into their lap. At that time I don't think Snyder and the Bat editors wanted to deal with fallout of Dick's identity being exposed to the world. So the original plan was to have Dick wear a blonde wig (you see that in the Batman Eternal Thanksgiving promo), pretend to be dead, and run around in this different Nightwing costume with Tynion writing the Nightwing book as we see in the new images. The original Bleedingcool leak was that Tynion was going to write the Nightwing series, and they even had that funeral issue completely drawn before scrapping the concept for the Grayson pitch, so the Batman editors switched plans really late into the process. They had that messy Nightwing #30 by King and Seely to try and act as a bridge to the Grayson series that had 3 different stories in it.

    I still think the main reason for going with the Grayson idea was because Snyder and the Bat editors didn't want to deal with the fallout of Dick's identity being exposed to the world. Realistically this event should have had BIG impact on the Batman mythos, especially if Dick was still in Gotham as Nightwing, but dealing with it properly conflicted with what Snyder and the Bat editors wanted to do with the ongoing Batman story. They didn't want to change plans and include this major plot all of a sudden. So their solution was to remove Dick from the Nightwing identity and move him across the ocean where they could ignore the exposed identity thing. Which worked as the identity thing really had zero effect on anything and "Dick's death" became the bigger issue to overwrite the exposed identity problem. To this day it made no sense for Dick to lie to and pretend to be dead to the Batman family because in the end Dick's identity being exposed lead to nothing. No fallout with intense media pressure and no villains using the information to get to the Batman family. Nothing happened. Which tells me that no one in the Batman office wanted to deal with it.

    Also speaking of Tynion in some interview before all this he talked about how he didn't think Dick worked as a solo character. So I remember me and others being upset he was the one rumored to be writing Nightwing's solo after Forever Evil when he said he didn't think the character worked as a solo character. But in the end we dodged a big bullet with that series and got the Grayson one instead.

  11. #1391
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    Which is odd, because Johns seems to have spent some time in Forever Evil and its tie ins establishing an Owlman/Nightwing relationship that's right in his wheelhouse - then dropping it completely.
    Same thing happened with other CSA's characters, I think none of them appeared after FE concluded till Johns eventually killed them in Darkseid War.

    If not Johns then maybe it was Bat editors who just didn't want to do anything with Earth-3 Owlman since Court of Owls was still this new hot thing at the time and it was bound to create some confusion.

  12. #1392
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    James Tynion revealed on twitter he and mikel janin were originally going to relaunch nightwing after forever evil, but the pitch was rejected by DC and turned into grayon instead: https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...77114021539846

    Really interesting twitter thread(with some never before seen art!)
    Grayson is a series that I've reread countless times so I'm glad DC rejected Tynion's pitch not to mention I don't want a the guy who wrote Dick stating that Tim was demonstrably smarter than him writing the character.

  13. #1393
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Grayson is a series that I've reread countless times so I'm glad DC rejected Tynion's pitch not to mention I don't want a the guy who wrote Dick stating that Tim was demonstrably smarter than him writing the character.
    I'd say that there's at least a 50/50 chance that Tom Taylor does that in the very next issue of Nightwing. And a 60/40 chance that Tom King would also write something like this.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  14. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    I'd say that there's at least a 50/50 chance that Tom Taylor does that in the very next issue of Nightwing. And a 60/40 chance that Tom King would also write something like this.

    Doesn't Snyder do it too - in either Black Mirror or Gates Of Gotham?

    I don't mind it, tbh - Dick's quite self-effacing and has a high regard for Tim. It's not like an Official DC Top Trumps statement.

    If Tim, or heaven-forbid, *Bruce* said it? Totally different thing,and I'd be burning down houses with the rest of you.

  15. #1395
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    I'd say that there's at least a 50/50 chance that Tom Taylor does that in the very next issue of Nightwing. And a 60/40 chance that Tom King would also write something like this.
    Tom King wrote something like that but it was clearly a joke. [that tec issue where Damian says something about Dick is the 13th best detective in the family or something stupid like that]

    That isn't the same as having Dick make such a statement in a serious manner in a Comic meant to celebrate him.

    Tom Taylor I'd rather not assume he hasn't done that yet. Point still remains I'm glad Tynion didn't get Nightwing

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