Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Konja7]

I think one of the key things that would help the idea go over would be to devote sufficient time to developing Kory and Babs's relationship with each other and what it means to them for themselves. Because otherwise it's going to just be a typical male fantasy with Dick scoring with two hot women who are each crazy over him, but don't have any meaningful impact for each other, essentially turning them into prizes/objects.

That's exactly the reason why polygamous relationship between Dick, Barbara and Kory couldn't work.

It would essentially exist only for Dick's benefit. So, it would be a pretty bad represwntation.

[Konja7]

I wouldn't say it's a grudge, she just has personal feelings that would prevent her from being gal pals with Kory beyond professionalism. Although I guess that never got in the way of her relationship with Helena.

I think Bruce not supporting Kory was less about Kory and more about supporting Babs.

That situation was definitely a problem Barbara has with Helena at first.

Barbara overcome this at the end, but she has issues with this.

[SiegePerilous02]

I wouldn't say it's a grudge, she just has personal feelings that would prevent her from being gal pals with Kory beyond professionalism. Although I guess that never got in the way of her relationship with Helena.

I think Bruce not supporting Kory was less about Kory and more about supporting Babs.

Has Bruce ever really shown a lot of support for Dick/Babs beyond a neutral grunt?

I see him supporting it in early BTAS, but we all know how that went unfortunately. Comics wise, Dick and Babs had a dynamic pre-COIE but it really ramped up in the 90s/2000s, and by that point Bruce was so cold I can't imagine he'd actively care about anyone's shipping.

That's exactly the reason why polygamous relationship between Dick, Barbara and Kory couldn't work.

It would essentially exist only for Dick's benefit. So, it would be a pretty bad represwntation.

Even the X-Men stuff works better, at least on paper. Scott and Jean each get a side piece so they are on equal terms, and what's more those respective other partners (Logan and Emma) have histories and their own complicated dynamics with their partner's spouse. Plus they are all under the same IP, whereas Babs and Kory are not.

It would only exist for Dick to get the prize of two hot redheads.

[Rakiduam]

That's exactly the reason why polygamous relationship between Dick, Barbara and Kory couldn't work.

It would essentially exist only for Dick's benefit. So, it would be a pretty bad represwntation.

Basically.

And I don't even see Dick being happy on this situation. He was so young when his parents died and they were so happy in a only need each other kind of way, I don't think the idea of being devoted to two people can compute to him.

[John Venus]

Actually Ollie was dead during the fist few years of Birds of Prey.

But really Dinah and Ollie is really a case where it doesn't make much sense to pair them with any other character in the comics, since their relation is just to iconic.

But that gets really of topic.

At this point, they are only together because nostalgia and wonky continuity. Pre Nu52, it felt like she had moved on from him in BOP but the writers threw them together again out of nostalgia and then had them break up again.

[John Venus]

If Dick/Babs/Kory went the polyamorous route then how do you make an alien like Starfire fit into the more grounded universe that the Nightwing books typically occupy or do you just have Dick go off to space in his own title?

[HsssH]

I don't see whats the problem with Nightwing having a space trip. No, I wouldn't like it if he was in space all the time, but couple of issues ever now and then? I'm ok with that.

[Frontier]

Has Bruce ever really shown a lot of support for Dick/Babs beyond a neutral grunt?

I see him supporting it in early BTAS, but we all know how that went unfortunately. Comics wise, Dick and Babs had a dynamic pre-COIE but it really ramped up in the 90s/2000s, and by that point Bruce was so cold I can't imagine he'd actively care about anyone's shipping.

I guess not overtly, but I don't think he's ever been against it. I don't think he ever commented on it compromising them like he views his relationships.

Even the X-Men stuff works better, at least on paper. Scott and Jean each get a side piece so they are on equal terms, and what's more those respective other partners (Logan and Emma) have histories and their own complicated dynamics with their partner's spouse. Plus they are all under the same IP, whereas Babs and Kory are not.

It would only exist for Dick to get the prize of two hot redheads.

In my own reading I've never really found any of the characters willing to settle for side-pieces and share to that extent, but that's just me.

[Rac7d*]

Has Bruce ever really shown a lot of support for Dick/Babs beyond a neutral grunt?

[SiegePerilous02]

In my own reading I've never really found any of the characters willing to settle for side-pieces and share to that extent, but that's just me.

Eh, the X-Men have always had weird sexual antics, have all died and come back to life at least once, and this particular love square includes two telepaths who are able to establish intimacy with their partners on a level nobody in real life can ever manage.

As long as it gets us away from boring relationship drama, there is more than enough unconventional stuff at play here for me to roll with it, lol.

Anything from the 90s/2000s? This certainly counts, but is also very recent

At this point, they are only together because nostalgia and wonky continuity. Pre Nu52, it felt like she had moved on from him in BOP but the writers threw them together again out of nostalgia and then had them break up again.

Yeah, at this point it's a romance that seemingly exists because people are used to it, not a ship that has a lot of diehards rooting for it.

Also is from a period where Black Canary was basically an extension of GA, but BOP and beyond she's started to become her own entity away from him to the point where getting them back together can come across as a step backwards.

[Restingvoice]

Wow we're still going with this
Okay there's some thoughts I need to unravel anyway:

The last time we see Dick Kori and Babs together was right after that Batman marriage, she said she's happy for them
After the war was won the timeline was reset to before Batman Who Laughs attack
Meaning at that point Dick was back to being amnesia, Babs is considering dating Jason Bard, and Kori was still out of space
Everyone remember everything though
At the very least the members of The Totality remember the war

So the next thing that happened was... sigh... Babs blaming Dick for being brainwash on the Joker... I'm just gonna say she's not in the right mind after accidentally killing her brother again... for the sake of my sanity... effectively ending any potential relationship at that time
Then Dick read Damian's letter leaving his Teens in the Titans care, and now with the combination of Roy still being dead and the Titans regaining their memory of past lives during the war, they band the classic team together and build Roy Harper Academy

So Babs is busy being a congresswoman's aide and trying to get her life together while Dick reconnected with Kori during the planning and building of Titans Academy and that's when they started flirting again

Now is a month or two after A-Day, Titans Academy is built and accepting student, and Babs have talked to her dad about James Jr. and with the reveal that Gordon knew that Babs is Batgirl, they reach an understanding and she's no longer considering dating Jason Bard.

So now that we got that problem squared away Babs is of sound mind again and can talk to Dick so she visits Bludhaven and threw him to the wall.

[Ascended]

Well. Things got pretty weird in here then, didnt they?

And that's largely my fault.

My bad, I never thought the entire thread would get pulled into this. It's my idea and even *I* said it'd never happen.

That's exactly the reason why polygamous relationship between Dick, Barbara and Kory couldn't work.

It would essentially exist only for Dick's benefit. So, it would be a pretty bad represwntation.

That'd be my fear as well. Even setting aside the fact that this is wildly out of character for Dick and Babs (less so Kori), I don't trust DC to handle such a dynamic in a proper fashion. There's a lot of new writers at the company now, so you never know I guess, but history does not support a poly relationship.

I'd still take it, if it meant getting us out of the endless triangle, but I'd accept almost *any* solution to escape that. But it would still put Dick and Babs together, and that's something I never, ever want to see again; they bring out the worst in each other and somehow make each other less, rather than more.

If Dick/Babs/Kory went the polyamorous route then how do you make an alien like Starfire fit into the more grounded universe that the Nightwing books typically occupy or do you just have Dick go off to space in his own title?

Nightwing shouldn't be a street level, grounded book in the first place (in my opinion) so it wouldn't be a barrier in my mind; rather it would open up Dick's narrative to the kind of higher concept stories I want to see him get into more often.

One of the great things about Nightwing, which DC almost always ignores, is that he stretches into different genres and scenarios better than damn near anyone. Nightwing in a street level, pulp-y murder mystery? Makes perfect sense, Batman is basically his dad. Nightwing in deep space fighting Gordanian slavers? Makes perfect sense, Superman is basically his uncle and Dick nearly married a alien princess. In my opinion, Dick fits more easily into sci-fi and high concept adventures better than Bruce does.

[WonderNight]

Yep I agree I feel nightwing's solo should be more of a superman style book. A book that fits more with the other titans and superman books for his solo.

The grounded street level nightwing should be for when he's in the other bat books not his solo. His solo being grounded and street level just makes him redundant with batman and all the other bats.

A Nightwing solo should feel like if a batman was apart of the superverse.

[Badou]

If Dick/Babs/Kory went the polyamorous route then how do you make an alien like Starfire fit into the more grounded universe that the Nightwing books typically occupy or do you just have Dick go off to space in his own title?

Starfire doesn't fit into that world. She is a character that lacks utility and can't fit into a lot of typical Nightwing stories. Like the most recent issue of Nightwing where Dick and Babs go out on a "date" to get some pizza in casual clothes can't happen with Starfire. She sticks out too much. It is one of the reasons why Babs has been Dick's main love interest for over 20 years now. She fits into the more typical Nightwing/Batman styled stories that DC wants to push. Dick's love life mirrors the kind of stories DC wants to use him in. He's had more normal or grounded love interest for the last 20+ years because those are the kind of stories they want to tell with him, and he hasn't really been in that many large non-grounded/space/fantasy stories so you are limited in how to use Starfire, or characters like her, as a love interest.

As for the polyamorous stuff I thought it was dumb how they did it in the X-Men, but I quit following the X-Men entirely before all that so it was whatever at this point. Just another reason to not want to read them anymore. I'm at the point with Babs and Starfire where I don't like either, but if forced to choose I'll always go Babs because she has far more utility for stories in my opinion, and I don't think modern Starfire is that good of a character. I think she is at her most interesting when she is in space or when she is newly arrived on Earth trying to understand it and you can tell a lot of stories around that with her, but we are so far removed from the latter that it doesn't really work anymore. So I don't find her that interesting, but also I'm sick of how Dick and Starfire's relationship is only used to throw Dick under the bus or guilt trip him now. It's so frustrating and it seems that is what they are going to do again in the TTA book. Feels like it has been just 25 years of making Dick look like an ******* and I wish DC would just move Starfire on to someone else at this point to end that. Although when Lobdell moved her on to Roy he still took shots at Dick making him the "bad guy", so I dunno.

[Confuzzled]

Starfire doesn't fit into that world. She is a character that lacks utility and can't fit into a lot of typical Nightwing stories. Like the most recent issue of Nightwing where Dick and Babs go out on a "date" to get some pizza in casual clothes can't happen with Starfire. She sticks out too much. It is one of the reasons why Babs has been Dick's main love interest for over 20 years now.

Not in adaptations for sure. Kids who grew up watching the various Teen Titans animated films and movies and who are now watching the Titans live action show think Dick/Kori are the end goal. Dick/Babs becomes irrelevant the moment Dick starts interacting outside the Batverse.