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  1. #1696
    Mighty Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    Nightwing did not come off as incompetent at all. Successfully saved everyone through quick thinking and had the edge on Heartless, an enhanced. Only lost consciousness due to severe head trauma. Seemed pretty competent to me. When did characters have to be win at everything to be considered good? Who cares, he got knocked out at the end due to having suffered a concussion from a super strength individual after having recently been shot in the head.

    John sleeping with another woman does not mean he was any less a victim of murder. If she is older he may not have even been married at the time.
    They should win from time to time. Barbara, some kids, this now .... he is always less good. Oh but Babs is smater, the kids are better and now Taylor original character is super hyper connected, and already has him on disadvantage.


    Did I say John wasn't a victim of murder? I said it wasn't random. Or you think Zucco casually killed the father of his....supposed daughter?...This is so freaking convoluted.
    Last edited by Rakiduam; 06-15-2021 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #1697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    They should win from time to time. Barbara, some kids, this now .... he is always less good. Oh but Babs is smater, the kids are better and now Taylor original character is super hyper connected, and already has him on disadvantage.


    Did I say John wasn't a victim of murder? I said it wasn't random. Or you think Zucco casually killed the father of his....supposed daughter?...This is so freaking convoluted.
    But he did win. He was winning the fight and then thanks to him all the kids were saved. Barbara won because she flipped him? Barbara may have a different skill set but she is not written as smarter. He has been making a positive impact and saving people all run. Not to mention itís very obvious that when Tim and Barbara are in the room Dick comes off as the leader. It seems all the years of bad Nightwings runs have made Grayson fans insecure and literally complain anytime he isnít portrayed as dominant in every way. These were the same complaints Helena received at the beginning Grayson and that was prob the best run the character has had.

  3. #1698
    Inquisitive Dzetoun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    At this point are these two stories (Taylor Nightwing/Titans Academy) even really cannon to each other? Feels like two completely different characters. Super weird.
    The separation between Dickís solo book and the Titans has always been pretty strong, as has the separation between Batman of Gotham and Batman of the Justice League. I grant, though, that the Kori/Babs situation makes it especially stark at the moment.

  4. #1699
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    I’m glad the book is selling well. The reveal at the end was interesting and has potential. I’m a big fan of the COO also so in favor of adding wrinkles to Dick’s background. What I don’t like about this run so far is how he seems incompetent and unable to function on his own at various times over the past few issues. We are also back to seeing Nightwing getting beat every issue and made to look like a fool. As far as his depiction as a competent character who is highly trained both physically and mentally I prefer Gotham: Future State. He is a leader and also tactical and strategic. Taylor writes him like he is a buffoon so far.

  5. #1700
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    This is what, third sell out? For all the complaints it does looks like the run is working commercially. We don't get good sales data anymore, but looking at May charts it looks like #80 was ranked 38 in unit sales overall and 11 for DC right after some big Batman books and new releases like Future State: Gotham and Wonder Girl. Suppose this one did even better. Are we living in a world where Nightwing might becomes DC's top 5 ongoing?

    I guess it is another example of me not getting what people like about Batman and related characters. I thought that Snyder's and Tynion's runs were garbage, but they sold (and are still selling in Tynion's case) great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    Did I say John wasn't a victim of murder? I said it wasn't random. Or you think Zucco casually killed the father of his....supposed daughter?...This is so freaking convoluted.
    Yeah, I think it kinda has to be the reason (or at least one of the reasons) because otherwise it gets more complicated than it has to be. On the other hand I guess Zucco could be unaware of this, but then its just a bunch of weird coincidences.

  6. #1701
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    There's also this sales table - https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...omics-may-2021

    It also shows that Nightwing is selling really well (better than justice league, detective comics, superman, flash, green lantern, wonder woman. basically better than any other DC title but Batman's titles, Joker, and new releases).

  7. #1702
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    Did I say John wasn't a victim of murder? I said it wasn't random. Or you think Zucco casually killed the father of his....supposed daughter?...This is so freaking convoluted.
    Batman fans would be irate if they changed Bruce's past where instead of Joe Chill killing the Waynes by chance Joe Chill instead killed them because Thomas Wayne knocked up Joe's wife in the past and then his wife passed off the kid as Joe's for years. It fundamentally changes their murder from being a random incident of crime to something else, and is also really dumb, right? This whole baby daddy plot here would be in the same vein as that. Sure, we don't know how this will play out in the end and this is speculation based on the setup, though I think most are praying for it to be a fake-out, but it reeks of a writer trying to spice up deaths by building "interesting" connections no one ever asked for.

  8. #1703
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWL45 View Post
    Iím glad the book is selling well. The reveal at the end was interesting and has potential. Iím a big fan of the COO also so in favor of adding wrinkles to Dickís background. What I donít like about this run so far is how he seems incompetent and unable to function on his own at various times over the past few issues. We are also back to seeing Nightwing getting beat every issue and made to look like a fool. As far as his depiction as a competent character who is highly trained both physically and mentally I prefer Gotham: Future State. He is a leader and also tactical and strategic. Taylor writes him like he is a buffoon so far.
    That's how I see it as well. Especially the last part.

    I hope Andrew Constant gets to write a Nightwing centric Future State: Gotham arc. That he was mentioned as one of the ships, is hopefully a good omen.

  9. #1704
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Finished reading that interview about Battle for the Cowl and found it rather funny how everyone claims to be big fans of Tim. Goes back to that story about Tim fans in conventions that was mentioned here some pages ago.

  10. #1705
    Astonishing Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWL45 View Post
    I’m glad the book is selling well. The reveal at the end was interesting and has potential. I’m a big fan of the COO also so in favor of adding wrinkles to Dick’s background. What I don’t like about this run so far is how he seems incompetent and unable to function on his own at various times over the past few issues. We are also back to seeing Nightwing getting beat every issue and made to look like a fool. As far as his depiction as a competent character who is highly trained both physically and mentally I prefer Gotham: Future State. He is a leader and also tactical and strategic. Taylor writes him like he is a buffoon so far.
    He got beat in this issue. That's the first time.

  11. #1706
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    Taylor is definitely going for lovable and sympathetic with his Nightwing. The hero you would want to hang with vs over competent. I think my preference is somewhere more in the middle, but I think they’re will be an eventual culmination.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-16-2021 at 11:04 AM.

  12. #1707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    They should win from time to time. Barbara, some kids, this now .... he is always less good. Oh but Babs is smater, the kids are better and now Taylor original character is super hyper connected, and already has him on disadvantage.


    Did I say John wasn't a victim of murder? I said it wasn't random. Or you think Zucco casually killed the father of his....supposed daughter?...This is so freaking convoluted.
    Okay well why does the murder need to be random. Mob violence still lead to the death of Dicks parents. It still has he same impact.

  13. #1708
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    He got beat in this issue. That's the first time.
    It was way worse in this new issue, but he has had poor showings in the first three issues too. The first issue of him getting caught and flipped by Babs while trying to sneak into his own apartment unnoticed when he had his guard up. Then in the second issue he gets his wallet stolen. The third issue was probably the lightest, but you had him continued to be made fun of by others for getting his wallet stolen and then he goes into some soliloquy about how amazing Tim is which felt a bit awkward, but it really all cumulated in the fourth issue with him getting concussed by Heartless, he failed again sneaking into an apartment by making dumb decisions and then gets beaten up by Melinda's henchwoman, and then get gets captured and unmasked by Melinda. He also has failed to do any actual detective work and the first time he tries he fails miserably. So far everything in the story has been explained to him rather than him figuring anything out on his own. He just doesn't come across as very capable.

    But I get it. Taylor wants to show him as being more of an every man and more vulnerable to make him seem more likeable, but I don't think he has balanced it well at all. Dick comes across more bumbling or incompetent than as someone that has been doing this for 15 to 20 years in canon.

  14. #1709
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    Okay well why does the murder need to be random. Mob violence still lead to the death of Dicks parents. It still has he same impact.
    Their deaths are supposed to mirror the Waynes' deaths. It is a fundamental link that bonds both Dick and Bruce in that they each witnessed their parents die in a random act of violent crime. It is their main motivation to act as heroes. Changing it to where Zucco has some past connection with John Grayson maybe because of some lovers quarrel/baby daddy drama completely rewrites it to not being a random act of violence anymore and might be a personal attack. It is a very big change that is completely unneeded.

  15. #1710
    Astonishing Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    It was way worse in this new issue, but he has had poor showings in the first three issues too. The first issue of him getting caught and flipped by Babs while trying to sneak into his own apartment unnoticed when he had his guard up. Then in the second issue he gets his wallet stolen. The third issue was probably the lightest, but you had him continued to be made fun of by others for getting his wallet stolen and then he goes into some soliloquy about how amazing Tim is which felt a bit awkward, but it really all cumulated in the fourth issue with him getting concussed by Heartless, he failed again sneaking into an apartment by making dumb decisions and then gets beaten up by Melinda's henchwoman, and then get gets captured and unmasked by Melinda. He also has failed to do any actual detective work and the first time he tries he fails miserably. So far everything in the story has been explained to him rather than him figuring anything out on his own. He just doesn't come across as very capable.

    But I get it. Taylor wants to show him as being more of an every man and more vulnerable to make him seem more likeable, but I don't think he has balanced it well at all. Dick comes across more bumbling or incompetent than as someone that has been doing this for 15 to 20 years in canon.
    Barbara is a Batperson, is not a big deal that she surprised him. Yeah, he got robbed, he wasn't pay attention while serving food to people in the streets.

    He had ONE line about Tim being a good Robin. And his family were messing with him in a playfull manner about him getting robbed, thats normal among friends and family.

    And in the last issue, he got a concussion and still had the upper hand on Heartless until he cheated and run away.

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