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  1. #3061
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Yeap! That's why dick needs a superpower girlfriend because we all know how babs really ended up in a wheelchair
    Lol. Sadly Dc doesn't think she fits with Bludhaven crowd. She just too much for them it seems. How can we change that? Because he clearly looks like he needs a challenge

  2. #3062
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Lol. Sadly Dc doesn't think she fits with Bludhaven crowd. She just too much for them it seems. How can we change that? Because he clearly looks like he needs a challenge
    hmm make bludhaven a hub for meta's? Low to mid tier? Or keep the vegas entertainment side of the city so supers visit regularly? Have dick live in and work to fix the city but fight crime global? All I know is these non super women need to be careful with the Grayson or we'll need alot more wheelchairs!
    Last edited by WonderNight; 10-16-2021 at 01:46 AM.

  3. #3063
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    Those covers

  4. #3064
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    hmm make bludhaven a hub for meta's? Low to mid tier? Or keep the vegas entertainment side of the city so supers visit regularly? Have dick live in and work to fix the city but fight crime global? All I know is these non super women need to be careful with the Grayson or we'll need alot more wheelchairs!
    That's one thing that seems to be Dc keeps returning to. That Bludhaven is suppose to be this east coast Las Vegas. Not only that being close to New York you have the titans. You also have the fact he is not too far from Superman. What if the citadel began starting work to find Kori again. That's how does Aliens get into Bludhaven.

    Also how much money you think Gotham will spend on wheelchairs?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 10-16-2021 at 08:22 AM.

  5. #3065
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    That's one thing that seems to be Dc keeps returning to. That Bludhaven is suppose to be this east coast Las Vegas. Not only that being close to New York you have the titans. You also have the fact he is not too far from Superman. What if the citadel began starting work to find Kori again. That's how does Aliens get into Bludhaven.

    Also how much money you think Gotham will spend on wheelchairs?
    All I know is that stock prices in wheelchairs sky rockets whenever Nightwing's back in gotham.

  6. #3066
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    All I know is that stock prices in wheelchairs sky rockets whenever Nightwing's back in gotham.
    I bet a new company will have to stay in. How would you want Kori and Dick to get back together? All I'm saying it should be special. especially with the wanting to keep the number down.

  7. #3067
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I bet a new company will have to stay in. How would you want Kori and Dick to get back together? All I'm saying it should be special. especially with the wanting to keep the number down.
    Yeah if bruce invest in wheelchairs when dicks in gotham he'd make his billions back. While I do prefer kori over babs why does it always have to be between those two? Why not someone new and fresh! Something nightwing definitely needs right now, how many 20 something single female heroine are out here? We need to stop putting theses limits on what nightwing could and should be, especially the limits of nostalgia that holds him back!

    Like now that the titans are a school for young heroes, how about nightwings future team role is as the nick fury of jon and yara's JL! Or something.

  8. #3068
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Yeah if bruce invest in wheelchairs when dicks in gotham he'd make his billions back. While I do prefer kori over babs why does it always have to be between those two? Why not someone new and fresh! Something nightwing definitely needs right now, how many 20 something single female heroine are out here? We need to stop putting theses limits on what nightwing could and should be, especially the limits of nostalgia that holds him back!

    Like now that the titans are a school for young heroes, how about nightwings future team role is as the nick fury of jon and yara's JL! Or something.
    That's why i liked Shawn. Want to see her again. I don't know if we will see him in JL from Jon and Yara. Has originally the idea was to replace the old and being in the new. So sadly no Dick or Wally. I mean the Batman was someone no one in the Batfam knew. That's bad. I would have liked Dick to have been quickly making JL. I mean Dick is often on a the emergency bakc
    Up take but Dc didn't think about that. Even if the JL brought up I still would have seen Dick, Wally and Donna making a new one not Yara and Jon
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 10-16-2021 at 10:09 PM.

  9. #3069
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    That's why i liked Shawn. Want to see her again. I don't know if we will see him in JL from Jon and Yara. Has originally the idea was to replace the old and being in the new. So sadly no Dick or Wally. I mean the Batman was someone no one in the Batfam knew. That's bad. I would have liked Dick to have been quickly making JL. I mean Dick is often on a the emergency bakc
    Up take but Dc didn't think about that. Even if the JL brought up I still would have seen Dick, Wally and Donna making a new one not Yara and Jon
    I don't even care anymore really! Ive come to accept that nightwing will always just be batman's top subordinate! Thats his role. So i don't care what they do with him anymore. Just know that the next time DC wants bruce to feel sad again dick's first on the hit list lol. Also DC ain't make ever making no dick, wally and donna JL lol! That's why they created this new generation in the first place, there the next generation that matters.

  10. #3070
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I don't even care anymore really! Ive come to accept that nightwing will always just be batman's top subordinate! Thats his role. So i don't care what they do with him anymore. Just know that the next time DC wants bruce to feel sad again dick's first on the hit list lol. Also DC ain't make ever making no dick, wally and donna JL lol! That's why they created this new generation in the first place, there the next generation that matters.
    I think it's really up to us. If enough people would read stories about Dick, Donna and Wally, we'll get more stories about them. Things already improved so much in the last year. Dick and Wally already have ongoings now, and DC course-corrected both of their stories.
    Hopefully, Dick could be some kind of mentor to Jon Superman. It would be interesting to se it.

    As for the justice league... it's written so badly right now I think we're honestly lucky Dick isn't there. I hope that in adaptations like Dark knights of steel or DC vs Vampires Dick would play an interesting role and won't just die in issue 1.

  11. #3071
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Yeah I know dick isn't joining the current Justice league, but that I hope he can play the nick fury mentor role to the next generation Jon yara ect Justice League!

    It'll help nightwing keep some in universe status by still being respected and a core player in the shaping of the Dcu.

    It would look so sad and weak for a bunch of rookies to just come and surpass him.

  12. #3072
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Yeah I know dick isn't joining the current Justice league, but that I hope he can play the nick fury mentor role to the next generation Jon yara ect Justice League!

    It'll help nightwing keep some in universe status by still being respected and a core player in the shaping of the Dcu.

    It would look so sad and weak for a bunch of rookies to just come and surpass him.
    Right now the "big players" of the younger generation seem to be Jon, Yara and Damian.
    Dick is already very close to Damian and plays a role of a mentor/older brother. If he'll become a confident and a mentor to Jon as well (as Taylor suggested in Nightwing 83) it would be great.
    I'm not following Yara, so I have no clue what she's doing, but maybe she'll become more prominent in the next big Amazon event.

    I don't know if we'll see Yara or Jace in the JL there in the near future. While Jon could maybe be there as Earth's superman, I really can't think of a reason for Jace to be there in the foreseeable future (but then again, right now Naomi is in the JL, so the roster there doesn't make much sense anyway. DC make very questionable decisions sometimes)

  13. #3073
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Taylor writes both Dick and Jon and have talked with Williamson about possible meeting with Damian when the Robin series started. It's still gonna take some time since Williamson will be reuniting Damian with Bruce first and leaving Gotham, and Taylor's still establishing Jon's world but as long as those two is around the possibility is there.

    Jace respects Dick in Future State to ask for his guidance, but I don't know about the present day, since as far as I know he hasn't met him and Dick will be going undercover in Arkham Tower or returning to Bludhaven. So they'll also probably not going to be hanging out for at least the next arc.

  14. #3074
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Dick and Wally haven't interacted at all since before Heroes in Crisis and the Ric story. DC doesn't care about that relationship. Dick's biggest problem as a character is how he is functionally irrelevant in the DCU's bigger ongoing stories. He's basically a nobody. The reason for that, as we've discussed before, is because he will always be redundant in them because DC has Batman they can focus on. Nightwing will never be able to compare with Batman in stories like that and DC sees no point in spending resources on him in those bigger stories and I sadly don't see that really ever changing. He is slightly more involved in the bigger ongoing Batman/Gotham stories, but only just. Even with them he serves no real story purpose other than just being one of the Batman kids. I can't remember the last big story where it actually felt like Dick was a central figure and crucial to the big story.

    But this problem is also compounded by fans and creators being obsessed with the idea of making awful settings like Bludhaven work, which isolate the character further in my opinion, and want him to have his own rogues gallery filled with new villains no one really cares about. Every Nightwing run feels like it is basically trying to solve these two things and failing over and over. I just don't see it as a way to really elevate the character where maybe he could have a bigger presence in bigger stories. What the character needs more than anything are great standalone stories with top tier villains that can be easily repackaged to a wider audience. This is something the character does not have. He has been a solo character for 25+ years now, but I don't think I can really point to any great standalone Nightwing stories. There is no great Nightwing and Deathstroke story, there is no great Nightwing and Joker story, and there is no great Nightwing and Court of Owls story.

    All the character has are these long drawn out runs by creators where the quality fluctuates wildly. He doesn't really have a Black Mirror type of story as Nightwing. That is what creators need to figure out in my opinion. Usually you could point to a character's origin story as being the breakout story, but I've said this before but Nightwing's origin is such a mess. Judas Contract is iconic, but as a Nightwing origin story it is kind of lacking. That wasn't the purpose of it and it focuses on a lot of other things where the creation of Nightwing isn't what it is centered on. Then when they have tried to tell new Nightwing origin stories, like with Bruce firing Dick and so on, they have all been kind of awful. So Nightwing is kind of stuck with no great origin story to sell to the public. Then even outside of an origin there isn't really any Nightwing story I can think of that you can really call a great standalone story with a great villain.

    Under the Red Hood for Jason is a great example of what I'm talking about. It is a standalone story that checks all those boxes. It is a standalone story that is easy to sell to the public, it involves Batman and the Joker who is the biggest villain in all of comics and clearly establishes Jason's relationship with both, and as a bonus it is an origin story. It just functions really well at introducing people to Jason as Red Hood and because of this it has elevated Jason's character really far and shows the importance of these kind of stories. Nightwing just doesn't have anything like this. If creators could solve this then I think we will see Nightwing take that next jump.

  15. #3075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Dick and Wally haven't interacted at all since before Heroes in Crisis and the Ric story. DC doesn't care about that relationship. Dick's biggest problem as a character is how he is functionally irrelevant in the DCU's bigger ongoing stories. He's basically a nobody. The reason for that, as we've discussed before, is because he will always be redundant in them because DC has Batman they can focus on. Nightwing will never be able to compare with Batman in stories like that and DC sees no point in spending resources on him in those bigger stories and I sadly don't see that really ever changing. He is slightly more involved in the bigger ongoing Batman/Gotham stories, but only just. Even with them he serves no real story purpose other than just being one of the Batman kids. I can't remember the last big story where it actually felt like Dick was a central figure and crucial to the big story.

    But this problem is also compounded by fans and creators being obsessed with the idea of making awful settings like Bludhaven work, which isolate the character further in my opinion, and want him to have his own rogues gallery filled with new villains no one really cares about. Every Nightwing run feels like it is basically trying to solve these two things and failing over and over. I just don't see it as a way to really elevate the character where maybe he could have a bigger presence in bigger stories. What the character needs more than anything are great standalone stories with top tier villains that can be easily repackaged to a wider audience. This is something the character does not have. He has been a solo character for 25+ years now, but I don't think I can really point to any great standalone Nightwing stories. There is no great Nightwing and Deathstroke story, there is no great Nightwing and Joker story, and there is no great Nightwing and Court of Owls story.

    All the character has are these long drawn out runs by creators where the quality fluctuates wildly. He doesn't really have a Black Mirror type of story as Nightwing. That is what creators need to figure out in my opinion. Usually you could point to a character's origin story as being the breakout story, but I've said this before but Nightwing's origin is such a mess. Judas Contract is iconic, but as a Nightwing origin story it is kind of lacking. That wasn't the purpose of it and it focuses on a lot of other things where the creation of Nightwing isn't what it is centered on. Then when they have tried to tell new Nightwing origin stories, like with Bruce firing Dick and so on, they have all been kind of awful. So Nightwing is kind of stuck with no great origin story to sell to the public. Then even outside of an origin there isn't really any Nightwing story I can think of that you can really call a great standalone story with a great villain.

    Under the Red Hood for Jason is a great example of what I'm talking about. It is a standalone story that checks all those boxes. It is a standalone story that is easy to sell to the public, it involves Batman and the Joker who is the biggest villain in all of comics and clearly establishes Jason's relationship with both, and as a bonus it is an origin story. It just functions really well at introducing people to Jason as Red Hood and because of this it has elevated Jason's character really far and shows the importance of these kind of stories. Nightwing just doesn't have anything like this. If creators could solve this then I think we will see Nightwing take that next jump.
    Well, we know Dick will meet both Roy and Wally in TTA, and as bad as the series is, I kind of hope that after the big welcome they'll be able to interact more.
    Also, Taylor already more or less confirmed a meeting between Dick, Wally and Jon (not clear if all together or separately), so there is that as well.

    I agree that Dick needs to do more things that influence not only Bludhaven/ Gotham, but just look at how many titles he is next month - Nightwing, TTA, titans united, Robins, Robin & Batman, and soon he'll also be in Tec in the shadow of the bat event. DC is giving us more content, and I want to believe that if they see that he generates interest and increases sales, they'll give us more of him, including appearances in other books.
    I also hope that we'll get some interesting and more meaningful stories with him influencing events, but right now I just remember how bad things were just last year, and the improvement is so very significant.

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